Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by 5_of_Spades

The thing is, people tend to forget their past mistake, even with history as a mirror. And all it takes for people to forget, is the passing of two or three generations, sad but true. I can see Lulu's plan last for a while, fail, and a new Zero to rise again, perhaps in imitation of the hero image that Lelouch set up.

Countries and people unite and split and unite again as a set course of history, often with great physical and political conflicts, and often, ironically, because people at the time are aiming for something "better" and "different" with the heart that Lelouch so trusted.




I'd love an OVA right about now.

I don't know, its the ideas that I think speak the loudest, least why do legends have such an impact even today? That there will be continued struggles to maintain it is no doubt, but I think this is the first time it will actually be fully achieved, and as such I think that with that wish for something better fulfilled people will work harder to maintain it now that they know its possible. You have to believe if its going to work in the first place Spade, that kind of attitude already defeats the purpose. I think, I hope anyway, and have faith, that Lelouch finally managed to break the chain with himself this time, and a new one not tied to itself but ever flowing will carry forward the new link that he has established. That is my belief anyway, but since this has never happened before in history I can understand your pessimism, at the same time I am optimistic because it has never happened before in history and that leaves for all kinds of new considerations. I will believe, and I'll end it on the note they left us on with this series, as they have done with many a Sunrise series, that though war be the continuation of mans history, in the end the conclusion is peace

Originally Posted by The_Dominion

Thats not the point. The point is, it was intentionally left ambigous for the reason of having the option to continue the story. For all intents and purposes he is really dead, that is until Sunrise decides he isn't.

Funny, I thought the whole purpose was for us to interpret that he was dead or otherwise in an ambiguous ending, but as I said, that they throw in an ambiguous ending at all leaves me to lean toward the suggested versus the more blatant, but that's me >_>

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Lelouch isn't actually Jesus, he just thinks he is.

Well, symbolically yes, but literally I don't quite think so, I just used that as a counter to his point really

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Hey, she got the good end, far as I'm concerned she's lucky and if him being though to be dead is going to keep that going, then so be it

Uhh, weren't you just complaining about him running away if he died. Now that he's alive you think he'd just give up on everything he built? It's up to the new world and the generation born from it to uphold the ideals now made viable for them to follow, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't stick around and see how it all goes if he is still around anyway, I thought that would suit your taste better in this case

By dying his running away from actually rebuilding the world

By actually running away he's well actually runs away and screws Suzaku. I hate Suzaku as much as the next guy but no one deserves what a living Lelouch did to Suzaku. If Lelouch treats 3 of the 4 closest people like complete shit, than I can't imagine what he would do to someone he doesn't like.

[The_Dominion]

You guys are missing the point. If Lelouch is actually dead, the ending is much more profound then if he is alive. If the creators of the show had any say in the ending, he is dead. The little touch with the driver at the end, that is for Sunrise to gauge interest in having the story continue. If there is enough, hey what do you know, that was him on the cart, and he is now immortal. Let's make an OVA!

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Lelouch isn't actually Jesus, he just thinks he is.

Lelouch is Schrödinger Jesus. He may or may not have died for our sins, as long as nobody performs an autopsy.


Other clue that Lelouch is alive and out in the country: Orange is cultivating... oranges, instead of faithfully serving Lelouch's heir.

Speaking of Orange, he was pretty bad ass, having his suit destroyed around him, but keeping going.

[The_Dominion]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Funny, I thought the whole purpose was for us to interpret that he was dead or otherwise in an ambiguous ending, but as I said, that they throw in an ambiguous ending at all leaves me to lean toward the suggested versus the more blatant, but that's me >_>

That is the problem with the way people think about endings. They want it to be more about them, then about their money.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

By dying his running away from actually rebuilding the world

By actually running away he's well actually runs away and screws Suzaku. I hate Suzaku as much as the next guy but no one deserves what a living Lelouch did to Suzaku. If Lelouch treats 3 of the 4 closest people like complete shit, than I can't imagine what he would do to someone he doesn't like.

your post makes me think of a certain point

people who think that he is really dead because staying alive would be cowardly, are idiots

it's kinda like how people think that suicide is cowardly, since you'd be running away from the world and all its problems...so for lelouche to stay alive (in secret) in order to keep an eye on the world, is the more responsible thing to do....dying doesn't make up for your sins....only doing something good..positive actions..can do that..and the only way lelouche would be able to do that is to still be alive

in short, lelouche would only be a coward if he allowed himself to die..the harder thing to do than to die is to keep living with all the burdens of your sins on you..and the decision, or responsibility, to make up for them

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

By dying his running away from actually rebuilding the world

By actually running away he's well actually runs away and screws Suzaku. I hate Suzaku as much as the next guy but no one deserves what a living Lelouch did to Suzaku. If Lelouch treats 3 of the 4 closest people like complete shit, than I can't imagine what he would do to someone he doesn't like.

Uh, he kind of got skewered by a sword, what more do you want? His death brought about this peace, if he suddenly came back then that would ruin it and Suzaku's dedication to this cause in the end. I think its fine, if he actually is alive then all the better that they leave the possibility that he can return to help again one day, if he is dead then he served a great purpose by making this possible in the first place least there not be a world to rebuild without him. Either way, Suzaku was fine with it and he got what he wanted as well, what they all wanted, and that's what mattered I feel.

[metamorphic]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

didn't he also promise to fulfill c.c.'s wish/make her happy. that she'll die with a smile on her face..and wouldn't she? if she got to die after living a natural life in peace and quiet in the countryside with lelouche

Another great point. This would also explain why she's so happy in the end. Lelouch would have definitely tried to make her wish come true.

[Salahuddin]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Exactly, and this is not something too pushy, as... weirdly enough, almost no one in CG verse figured that Damocles showering the world randomly with fleia is far worse than despotic empire so, it was actually a bit unconvincing that he "had" to die for that.

Although the reasoning is fine, it was certainly not the best and the lone solution, and should he played nice like how he did before going "conqueror mode", he would actually be able to have a better guarantee that the world would be in peace for nunally, instead of temporarily taking all the hate.

The point was not that Damocles showering the world with FLEIAs is worse, it was that it would have to shower the world in order to receive the hatred, and it would be towards an inanimate object. Whereas with Lulu, he is portrayed as being arrogant, evil, and extremely authoritarian. So without the massive death count, he accomplishes a similar goal.

I do agree that he could have worked things out diplomatically eventually, but it's far less effective than the entire world united to defeat an oppressor and then riding on that unity after is slain.

[errorrrr]

Originally Posted by Mysteria

Another great point. This would also explain why she's so happy in the end. Lelouch would have definitely tried to make her wish come true.

3rd that, there is no possible way that Lelocuh will go first before fulfilling C.C.'s wish.

[Diedrupo]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

your post makes me think of a certain point

people who think that he is really dead because staying alive would be cowardly, are idiots

it's kinda like how people think that suicide is cowardly, since you'd be running away from the world and all its problems...so for lelouche to stay alive (in secret) in order to keep an eye on the world, is the more responsible thing to do....dying doesn't make up for your sins....only doing something good..positive actions..can do that..and the only way lelouche would be able to do that is to still be alive

in short, lelouche would only be a coward if he allowed himself to die..the harder thing to do than to die is to keep living with all the burdens of your sins on you..and the decision, or responsibility, to make up for them

Suicide is cowardly, and I think what Lelouch did was cowardly and full of emo stupidity.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by Diedrupo

Suicide is cowardly, and I think what Lelouch did was cowardly and full of emo stupidity.

well, i think he's still alive...so..

[metamorphic]

Originally Posted by ApathyEcstasy

your post makes me think of a certain point

people who think that he is really dead because staying alive would be cowardly, are idiots

it's kinda like how people think that suicide is cowardly, since you'd be running away from the world and all its problems...so for lelouche to stay alive (in secret) in order to keep an eye on the world, is the more responsible thing to do....dying doesn't make up for your sins....only doing something good..positive actions..can do that..and the only way lelouche would be able to do that is to still be alive

in short, lelouche would only be a coward if he allowed himself to die..the harder thing to do than to die is to keep living with all the burdens of your sins on you..and the decision, or responsibility, to make up for them

This would certainly make a lot more sense and would explain much of his intentions. Above all, a satisfying conclusion, and after all, this is a Goro Taniguchi show we're talking about, and looking back at his other shows, like Gun X Sword, I don't think many would disagree.

[Izayoi]

.........Wut to say about this trainwreck. I didn't really get it the first time so I had to rewatch. Was drowning in the Sanzu River when Nunnally cried. I don't really think Lelouch is alive nor is he dead, nor am I going to debate about the moral of it, I will simply accept this like a open ending.

Edit: Somehow it feels like Spice and Wolf in the end

[errorrrr]

I think the ending doesn't befit his death... if i was to write a lelocuh death ending it'd be something like Final Fantasy Tactics where the epilogue would be like:

LONG TIME later (100 years ??) showing a history text book in school that has all Lelouch's deeds and his efforts explained and so forth... or someone who would published all his deeds and so forth and such... that'd be a much better "death" ending...

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Diedrupo

Suicide is cowardly, and I think what Lelouch did was cowardly and full of emo stupidity.

Hey, he's the guy who achieved world peace and your the guy whose... complaining about it, so I wonder which speaks out more in the end? All about the results they bring people, unless you've got something to bring to the table yourself I'm going to go with the world peace achiever here

[snarf2691]

just finished watching the last ep. so i guess that when i guessed that he would die in the end was right, but i think it would be better for him to be actually dead to put finality in the series.

[Hiku]

What I don't understand is why he didn't take C.C.'s code. She didn't want to live, so is this really a good end for her? But she seems happy. Is this what Lelouch meant by making her smile before she died? I don't know why this would make her smile. She was even crying earlier. He changed the world and made it better. But is that what C.C. needed to be happy? I never thought that was what she needed. And it didn't seem like that was what Lelouch meant when he told her "I know your true wish now". I thought she wanted to be loved, and love someone. And now she did, but it was lost.
As much as I hate to say it, the ending and Lelouch sacrifice didn't feel like it gave me enough closure. Maybe there will be an extended ending on the DVD?

Besides not knowing C.C.'s name, there were some other things that remained unexplained as well. The time when Lelouch Geass became permanent, Suzaku seemed as if he could see C.C. inside her Knightmare, or the green human shaped aura that was outside.
She said something like "Can he see my..? Or is he also...?"
Is he also what? And that green aura appeared in the first episode as well on the truck that contained C.C. I always thought that was Marianne. Lelouch also appeared as that aura when he entered the World of C. I guess maybe the writer decided to change some things in the story, so this part was left out and never explained. And I'm not sure how Nunnaly could see a vision of Lelouch and Suzaku's conversations when she touched his hand either. Isn't that something that C.C. could do by touching Lelouch? Maybe he had a Code after all...

[CapoExecutor]

Lelouch is likely to have V.V.'s code in order to have eternal life. It would be nice if he and C.C. could send a letter to Nunnally and Suzaku some time in the future.

Regarding Sayoko, she either went back to working for the Ashfords or decided to take the mantle in running the Shinozaki School.

Xingke is likely in partial retirement due to his illness but still stays with the Tianzi as he vowed to always do. Speaking of which, was that Gino in the picture with the Tianzi?

Did Nunnally become the Empress of Britannia?

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Uh, he kind of got skewered by a sword, what more do you want? His death brought about this peace, if he suddenly came back then that would ruin it and Suzaku's dedication to this cause in the end. I think its fine, if he actually is alive then all the better that they leave the possibility that he can return to help again one day, if he is dead then he served a great purpose by making this possible in the first place least there not be a world to rebuild without him. Either way, Suzaku was fine with it and he got what he wanted as well, what they all wanted, and that's what mattered I feel.

NOT GET SKEWERED BY THE SWORD!

Have a realistic peace instead of peace based on a lie. He screws Suzaku, he screws Kallen, he screws Nunally and what does Lelouch get?

His having sex with C.C in some hayloft. He can't watch over the world since if he ever does return the Charade would be revealed.

Living with his sins? Do you honestly think a man that treats his friends like shit would give a rats about the people he didn't like?