To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[SilverTalon]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, but do the geniuses know that? Because if they don't, she could easily find herself... well, not dead, but revived as an unholy scientific abomination.

Would they even care for sure? If that guy is in fact the leader, STUDY might not actually have a higher up backing them. They could just be a splinter of the dark side of the city and not actually working for the city like ITEM which could be why ITEM got involved in the first place (isn't their job to make sure the various aspects of the dark side keep in line?).

But even if that is wrong, we do know that ITEM is not getting their orders from the same place as STUDY. There is no real solid grounds for assuming that unacceptable collateral damage to ITEM is also unacceptable for STUDY.

[Draco Spirit]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

*Snip!*

If I was to give the writers the benefit of the doubt, perhaps Mikoto still has some lingering effects from the Sisters arc that's causing her great shame and hence subconscious borderline suicidal desires. That could explain her taking huge, seemingly OoC risks (including eating that candy from Therestina).

TBH I think Febri does remind Mikoto of the sisters, and Mikoto is certainly carrying some serous emotional baggage from the whole incident that happened a matter of days ago.

She's guilt ridden, self sacrificing, naive, under a high stakes countdown and rather emotional at the best of times, the fact she feel for this kind of trick makes sense to me.

[leukrota]

I wasn't going to participate, but since no one mentioned it, I'll just say this:

I expected at least for Shinobu to know how the lame villain would act, and not just cause she knows more about him than Mikoto. Wasn't she a mind game expert?

If it turns out that she actually injected the drug into a sponge in her hand, making it look like it was Mikoto's arm, then cool, that would be in line with how I thought she was... but I seriously doubt that was the case here.

... Watching Shinobu getting beaten by ITEM is one thing (it's the logical outcome), but watching her being easily outmaneuvered by a whinny nerd is just painful.

[AdmirerofSatenRuiko]

Originally Posted by Primary Consult

The Saten / Febri scenes were seriously adorable. Watch with subs off to fully appreciate them. Also the intonation of her voice during those scenes added much to the adorableness.

Saten's character has incredible potential, most part of Railgun S failed to utilize it unfortunately.

[Haak]

That episode wasn't as good as the previous but I did like the emotion involved. Mikoto's talk with Telestina wasn't all that convincing and whilst I don't see how Mikoto could have done any better against Aritomi, I would've liked more perspective from Mikoto so that it would give the scene a bit more weight.

Well at the very least, my respect for Aritomi as a villain has slightly increased even if he is still far below in the ladder. Well crappy villains in the To Aru verse isn't exactly new but whatever.

[dniv]

I'll give it a 10/10 because I want to support railgun... but seriously this anime original arc feels all wrong. Like everyone else that doesn't want to take the time to explain why, I won't explain why. Well I'll explain a little, but I won't argue about it.

At this point, it doesn't matter to me if there is a cool finish and plot twist that changes everything. What bothers me a lot here is the amount of plot armor revolving around the main protagonists. The introduction into the darkness has now IMO become out of character. The villains are pretty lame. And the arc is sacrificing the development in the first part of the season, only to pretend all of the problems with the sisters arc completely went away and is focusing on a new arc with totally different characters. It would have made much more sense if the anime original arc was related to the sisters in some way or other... (perhaps)...

The good parts of this arc though are the characterization within the new arc... We get to see Terestina. We get to see a group within AC's darkness... we get more ITEM. We have a plot that is threatening to destroy AC by the group of scientists. The group of scientists did something to Mikoto that raised the tension!

And then we have instant negatives where the next episode preview showed that Mikoto was all fine again...

I'm not sure what to think about this arc. Sure it has some nice down-time, but it's really inconsistent compared with the rest of the story and even I have to admit that J.C. staff must have majorly bungled up what Kamachi asked them to animate... I am not saying it is bad, I am just saying it isn't good.

I am giving it a 10/10 like I said, because I don't have the heart to give it any less than that...

Especially with all the references to the summer vacation field trip, this arc is rather disappointing in my opinion.

[Triple_R]

That has to be the most critical review accompanying a 10/10 rating that I've ever read.

Nobody can question your devotion to Railgun, dniv, lol.


Ultimately, I think the main problem with this arc are the new antagonists. It's been my experience that the closer you get to the end of a major Railgun arc, the more important the quality of the main antagonist(s) becomes. And when protagonists are given PIS* to make plot points work it's often because their antagonistic enemies just aren't good enough.

Aritomi is not a bad villain, per se. His dialogue is Ok. His motivation makes sense. Some of his ideas are genuinely clever (I still love the idea of a mecha that Mikoto can't affect directly with her electromagnetism). But the problem is that him and his brainy friends just lack a certain gravitas.

They're not particularly charismatic, thus entertaining you with their mere presence. They're not particularly impressive, thus awing you with their accomplishments and/or threatening presence (and thus the mind wanders to ways that Mikoto could easily beat them). And they're not particularly vile, thus having a "love to hate" effect. They're just snobbish, amoral, brainy kids that do what snobbish, amoral, brainy kids tend to do. They'd be right at home as one-shot villains in Dexter's Lab or the PowerPuff Girls. So they're not bad, per se, but they're very generic. They have no business being the main antagonists for the final arc of an entire season.

The fact that Tessa and ITEM are in the arc makes these new villains look even worse, by sheer contrast. It's like starting out a Batman comic with him interrogating The Joker for a few pages, and then the rest of the issue is about Batman tracking down that incredibly dangerous 10-Eyed Man.


All of that being said, the next episode preview did hurt. You're right there, dniv. The final scene of this episode could have at least been a good cliffhanger if not for that.


But oh well, at least this arc is delivering nicely on character development, and its friendship-building moments.


*PIS = Plot-Induced Stupidity

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Ultimately, I think the main problem with this arc are the new antagonists. It's been my experience that the closer you get to the end of a major Railgun arc, the more important the quality of the main antagonist(s) becomes. And when protagonists are given PIS* to make plot points work it's often because their antagonistic enemies just aren't good enough.

Aritomi is not a bad villain, per se. His dialogue is Ok. His motivation makes sense. Some of his ideas are genuinely clever (I still love the idea of a mecha that Mikoto can't affect directly with her electromagnetism). But the problem is that him and his brainy friends just lack a certain gravitas.

They're not particularly charismatic, thus entertaining you with their mere presence. They're not particularly impressive, thus awing you with their accomplishments and/or threatening presence (and thus the mind wanders to ways that Mikoto could easily beat them). And they're not particularly vile, thus having a "love to hate" effect. They're just snobbish, amoral, brainy kids that do what snobbish, amoral, brainy kids tend to do. They'd be right at home as one-shot villains in Dexter's Lab or the PowerPuff Girls. So they're not bad, per se, but they're very generic. They have no business being the main antagonists for the final arc of an entire season.

The fact that Tessa and ITEM are in the arc makes these new villains look even worse, by sheer contrast. It's like starting out a Batman comic with him interrogating The Joker for a few pages, and then the rest of the issue is about Batman tracking down that incredibly dangerous 10-Eyed Man.

Yeah, it's especially annoying since they're following up Accelerator, who not only had such a good voice actor the voice actor won an award for it (back in Index I) but was incredibly threatening. When he showed up you were terrified for Misaka or the clones. When these guys show up you just can't help but roll your eyes.

[Shinhwa]

*facepalm at Mikoto*

I thought you were smarter than this DX

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Yeah, it's especially annoying since they're following up Accelerator, who not only had such a good voice actor the voice actor won an award for it (back in Index I) but was incredibly threatening. When he showed up you were terrified for Misaka or the clones. When these guys show up you just can't help but roll your eyes.

Agreed. Accelerator was a big part of why the Sisters arc was so great. Accelerator was very impressive, and threatening, and entertaining to watch. ITEM was also excellent during their part of the Sisters Arc.

But these new guys feel like the geek version of Skillout. And like Skillout, they should have got two episodes at most.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Aritomi is not a bad villain, per se. His dialogue is Ok. His motivation makes sense. Some of his ideas are genuinely clever (I still love the idea of a mecha that Mikoto can't affect directly with her electromagnetism). But the problem is that him and his brainy friends just lack a certain gravitas.

his mtivation DOESN'T make sense.

Espers are the face of AC but Scientist runs AC.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

his mtivation DOESN'T make sense.

Espers are the face of AC but Scientist runs AC.

Some guys want fame, not just power. Not everybody is satisfied just being powerful in the shadows. Some also crave popularity and positive recognition from the masses.

Aritomi likely resents how he's not more famous because Espers are the attention-grabbers in Academy City. So I think his motivation makes sense. But he lacks the charisma or threatening presence to fully seal the deal as a compelling antagonist.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Agreed. Accelerator was a big part of why the Sisters arc was so great. Accelerator was very impressive, and threatening, and entertaining to watch. ITEM was also excellent during their part of the Sisters Arc.

But these new guys feel like the geek version of Skillout. And like Skillout, they should have got two episodes at most.

And the worst of it.......they have to nerf Mikoto to make these STUDY guys look like a decent villain.

[SilverTalon]

Originally Posted by Marina2

And the worst of it.......they have to nerf Mikoto to make these STUDY guys look like a decent villain.

To be fair, that applies to Thelestina also and she was a good villain. Thats gonna happen though because there just aren't that many people in AC that can fight her head on.

[Sackett]

Sigh... so I gave the episode a seven. First of all, before the final scene this was a pretty good episode.

I don't have any problems with Mikoto deciding to go check this place out by herself. She's the Level 5, which makes her the heavy hitter on her "team" so it makes perfect sense for her to be the one to take the dangerous tasks.

Maybe she should have taken Kuroko with her, but there are plausible reasons why she wouldn't:

1: Mikoto still has reluctance to endanger her friends. Just because she had the character development of sharing this problem with her friends doesn't mean she suddenly is going to lose all her issues about doing things herself and not relying on others. (That would be rather unrealistic character development actually).

2: Kuroko is in Judgement, so if Mikoto has to take any... shady actions to secure the needed information, it's probably better not to have Kuroko involved.

The final scene... well obviously in hindsight it was a bad decision. It's also a pretty foolish decision without hindsight no matter how you look at it. In a hostage situation you don't make it better by giving the villain even more hostages. I'm willing to be forgiving though because of the following reasons:

1: This is a pretty common writing failure. Lots of shows have this kind of stupid action by the hero.

2: There is a reason for this being so common. The hero, being good, has difficulty understanding evil, and so tends to be more trusting, while writers need to show the villain as evil. Why shouldn't STUDY hand over the poison neutralizer? Decent people are going to have trouble understanding why they wouldn't. While a desire to neutralize the threat posed by a level 5 is an understandable desire. This scene has now emotionally established Mikoto as the selfless hero, and STUDY as villains deserving whatever can of whoop ass the heroes unleash on them.

3a: It fits in the flow of this episode. Mikoto has just come from a scene with Thelestina where she trusted a person that she had reason not to trust, and it paid off for her. Trust won her some support from Thelestina, so why not pull the same gambit with STUDY?

3b: It fits with the flow of the season, as mentioned above, Mikoto still has emotional baggage from the Sisters Arc, which included a disposition to martyrdom. In some sense Mikoto probably feels a needs to sacrifice herself for others to prove to herself that she's a good person and not a selfish person who sacrifices others (her sisters) so that she can have a happy life. It's not particularly rational, but emotionally it does make sense.

It still came off as an eye rolling Idiot Ball moment, but it's at least semi-plausible that Mikoto would make such a foolish decision.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Sackett

Sigh... so I gave the episode a seven. First of all, before the final scene this was a pretty good episode.

I don't have any problems with Mikoto deciding to go check this place out by herself. She's the Level 5, which makes her the heavy hitter on her "team" so it makes perfect sense for her to be the one to take the dangerous tasks.

Do you realize how valuable a teleporter is? Especially in a world like Raildex's?

Those are rhetorical questions, because I know you're an intelligent person that realizes this. And Mikoto also has the intelligence to realize this.

Which is why I do have a problem with her going alone to a place she's never been before to likely deal with an enemy she's never met before when one of her best friends is a teleporter. At a bare minimum, Mikoto should have some sort of tracking device put on her that Kuroko can use to determine Mikoto's location if the need of a teleportation rescue arises.

This wasn't a problem in the Sisters Arc because Mikoto had good reasons for leaving Kuroko out of the picture there. But those reasons don't apply here.

[relentlessflame]

Just to throw this out there... the "she fell for the trap" thing is a common fake-out in episodic shows, which sometimes plays on the fact that the viewers think they've seen the whole story, but there are things they don't know (because they were deliberately withheld from them). Even if we assume that Mikoto was naive and fell for the trap it doesn't mean that a) she hadn't actually considered this a possibility, b) other people (people who know her well) hadn't considered her own tendency to solve her problems alone a possibility, and c) that she (Mikoto) hadn't actually considered both a) and b) when making her decision to risk it anyway.

It's possible that things won't go this way, but I strongly suspect not everything is as it seems, so I wouldn't rush to judgement too much until at least we all see how it turns out.

[SilverTalon]

I would really, really like to find out next week that the two were pulling a fast one on him, but 2 eps left makes me think them apprehending him next episode is unlikely.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Do you realize how valuable a teleporter is? Especially in a world like Raildex's?

Those are rhetorical questions, because I know you're an intelligent person that realizes this. And Mikoto also has the intelligence to realize this.

All the more reason to leave her behind incase she needs to protect Febri. And you are really overestimating Kuroko's worth in a fight that Mikoto is already present in. The very limited number of people in AC that could actually push Mikoto into a corner could also swat Kuroko like a fly (because really Mikoto could too). There is a range on her teleport, it isn't actually instantaneous, and there is serious danger in messing it up and teleporting into something. It isn't some infallible ability. Sure in most situations, no one involved really has a way to counter it, but in most situations Mikoto curb stomps everyone anyway. Also the only times Mikoto has had trouble so far were with capacity down (Kuroko is even more useless) and Accel so there really is no past example of a fight where Kuroko could have turned the tide from a loss or even provided an escape that the enemy party didn't allow.

Getting Kuroko involved was certainly a good idea because she has the potential to be very helpful in general. Taking her into a raid on a facility adds nothing. Even if she were there, glasses-kun would have insisted she be drugged too and if Mikoto went along with it, I don't see Kuroko disregarding her onee-sama's decision.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Just to throw this out there... the "she fell for the trap" thing is a common fake-out in episodic shows, which sometimes plays on the fact that the viewers think they've seen the whole story, but there are things they don't know (because they were deliberately withheld from them). Even if we assume that Mikoto was naive and fell for the trap it doesn't mean that a) she hadn't actually considered this a possibility, b) other people (people who know her well) hadn't considered her own tendency to solve her problems alone a possibility, and c) that she (Mikoto) hadn't actually considered both a) and b) when making her decision to risk it anyway.

It's possible that things won't go this way, but I strongly suspect not everything is as it seems, so I wouldn't rush to judgement too much until at least we all see how it turns out.

Unless what she trusted was that Shinobu would fake the injection, it was still remarkably stupid.

And if she did... That's pretty much as asspull. Why would she?

Sure, it's possible someone will come to her rescue. But what if it'd been fast acting poison?

[Xero8420]

Though I should agree with dniv & Triple R, that the antagonist of this arc, Aritomi is being a lame-ass villain. Brainy & calculative, yet uncharismatic & pretentious. His ideas and motivations are clever and intentionally understandable that makes him a decent villain. But the lack of other qualities that still made him a lame villain, even though he has the potential to become a decent villain.