Macross Frontier - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[risingstar3110]

Since the end of Ep 20 (which I have just watched today also), i have been wondering about: WTF is going on (I seriously repeated "WTF...WTF....WTF...." during the whole Ep). The emotion is completely offed my prediction, with constant recycling footages for battle screen and unclear shifting in time and space (e.g where did they get the VF25s from if not from the SMS quarter....). Everything was so chaotic that by the end of Ep, I have to check to see is this the final Ep yet and why they have to rush at this ridiculous rate.


About Ranka? Well, not much to say except if I am Alto and my friend called me out for an emergency situation(look how he ran) in the middle of the night, then ask me to teach her how to make paper plane..... i seriously will send her to hospital, in afraid that she had a mental breakdown, (caused by her brother disappearance, perhaps).

She is not 100% human, so she may have different kind of emotion and look at the situation in a different way. That's why I do not blame her for intending to bring Ai-kun home even when it's clearly ridiculous.

But overall, i will wait to see the ending before commenting further about this Ep.


PS: So Micheal's really dead , eh?
I do not like that guy much seriously, but never expect him dead. Is there any reason for him to be dead?
Or is it just so viewer won't have to puzzle at how him and KlanKlan will end up in the end?
His death is not even for emotional build up because 1/ there are so many things to worry about; 2/ viewers still think he is alive 3/ the way Ozma escape death make Michael's death become realistic but super lame (image a film about how a team of soldiers returned alive from an impossible situation: have to fight horde of armies using only fists and knives....etc..... then one of them stepped on a land mine within their safe zone )

[golthin]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

PS: So Micheal's really dead , eh?
I do not like that guy much seriously, but never expect him dead. Is there any reason for him to be dead?

Micheal's dead has one main purpose! It is to validate Alto's hate toward the vajra and justify Ranka leaving him and going with brasra and Ai-kun!

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by golthin

Micheal's dead has one main purpose! It is to validate Alto's hate toward the vajra and justify Ranka leaving him and going with brasra and Ai-kun!

It's not like Alto will go with them even if Michael alive, seeing his school wiped out, the city in ruin, his pink-hair-girl work mate and many nameless SMS guards, pilots dead.

Vajra attacked during a festival? Must be decimals or hundreds thousands people dead, i suspect (even underground SMS got assaulted, yes?)

Michael dead just so we have 20 secs of Alto pointing gun into Ai-kun? Why don't they make Michael was knocked into unconscious (or seriously wouded) or lose a hand (or limb) then? Same effect.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Death is more powerful reminder of horrors in genocidal war. Plus it is expected when you fighting a war, people do get killed when their number is up.

I don't like the death proof main characters whereas everyone around drop like flies. At least one of the main character in Frontier kick the bucket but it is not enough in my opinion. The pineapple salad gods demand more sacrifices.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Death is more powerful reminder of horrors in genocidal war. Plus it is expected when you fighting a war, people do get killed when their number is up.

I don't like the death proof main characters whereas everyone around drop like flies. At least one of the main character in Frontier kick the bucket but it is not enough in my opinion. The pineapple salad gods demand more sacrifices.

I have a different opinion indeed, as whether main characters have death-proof vests or not do not matter for me. The important is if dead characters serve a certain purpose in the anime/movie well or not.

The three come right off my head atm is "Samurai X: Trust & Betrayal", "Saving Private Ryan" and a Korean movie named "Taegukgi: The Brotherhood of war". Each have powerful deaths that contribute majorly onto their are success(initially, main characters in those films escaped death luckily many times also) . That's why let some one die just so it's more "realistic" really bug the heck out of me

[Wesley84]

Kill characters to relieve boredom seems to be the common train of thought. Revenge killings get old fast though, so it'd be best to avoid that kind of trap.

[Mughi]

I disagree with those looking for a reason "good enough" for Mikhail's death. War yield's random death. The more sensless and meaningless, the more realistic. The idea that a major character dies for no good reason and no gain really works to actually fortify the drama of a story IMO.

[MaiHikari]

Originally Posted by Mughi

I disagree with those looking for a reason "good enough" for Mikhail's death. War yield's random death. The more sensless and meaningless, the more realistic. The idea that a major character dies for no good reason and no gain really works to actually fortify the drama of a story IMO.

Yeah. He got to die protecting the one he loves. What more of an epic death would be more suitable? I just wish more people would grieve over his death than just Klan, and that Alto would finally take his advice to be clear about the love triangle. So far, episode 21 has not done that justice.

[KiNA]

Thats why we have unnamed cannon fodder.. to fortify the drama.. To have a name character with back story, then just randomly kill them is a waste of valuable screen time.

[Mughi]

Cannon fodder and red shirt characters dying only dehumanizes the killing and desensitizes the audience. Killing a character we all care about for no reason other than having people grieve over him is the whole point of their seemingly random death. It's pathos.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Mughi

Cannon fodder and red shirt characters dying only dehumanizes the killing and desensitizes the audience. Killing a character we all care about for no reason other than having people grieve over him is the whole point of their seemingly random death. It's pathos.

It's a matter of portrayal. Freaks like Max aside, I'd say the pilot characters from the original Macross series, were more or less depicted as nothing special or a-typical, but through them we saw what might have been the real and everyday depiction of a group of pilots onboard the Macross. Not like in Frontier where there's alot of screaming, singing, and the SMS punching way, way, way above it's weight level.

In the former, dying is the cold hard truth of the job they're doing. In the latter, it's simple, meaningless drama for the sake of even more screaming.

Hikaru sees a VF blow up in front of him and you know he's thinking and you're thinking "That could have been me". Ozma sees VFs blow up in front of him and he thinks "Cowards...oh shoot! I left a Pineapple Pie in the oven!"

[sekidousai]

I think the whole point of Michel's death is fuel our anger and hate towards the Vajra as depicted by Klan and Luca.... now that the story is on the Vajra hyperspeed of hate and anger we then slam into an Ai-kun wall!!! and now we are headed towards to the opposite direction. Kawamori is now having a play with our emotions.

[risingstar3110]

No, you guys missed my point.

I do not try to prove that a death of one of main casts is necessary or not. What am I saying is if that death serve any purpose or not.

About "Micheal's death gonna fuel our anger and hate towards the Vajra", I (personally) failed to sense that. Because we all knew that there is a mastermind behind all these, and the Vajra do not have brain to process much thinking ( not sure about Ai-kun through) so there would be a possible case of final peace between two races (+Zentradi)
Micheal's death also happened when the triangle Alto-Ranka-Sheryl in climax, Sheryl gonna die to disease, Macross Frontier in cliff of total annihilation, Ozma and Kathy is in exile, MF government is in chao, SMS headquarter under attacks heavily, his love decision is still not clear (with "I don't have one but is still looking" speak but ended up as "I always loved you"), and his death also can be prevented with a little bit more careful. Then we have Ranka leave to vajra world later also. I ended up do not have spare emotion to grieve over him but just find the situation lame.

To me, a tragic death always have to be the end of something to gain full emotions. Michael died to hold off the Vajra from escape Island 3 for example, or just right after he decided he will make the move to KanKlan. Or if you want a sudden death(but emotional), make him drop his glasses while saving Klan, then got killed because of that.

Anyway, just few complaints, not gonna take it so serious ^_^

[MaiHikari]

There is purpose to Mikhail's death. The whole speech Klan gave a few minutes prior was the key point. She told him and Alto that because one can die anytime, that one can love and that was when she found the courage to confess her love. She told Alto to remember it well. This point was driven home by Mikhail's death when he finally confessesed, but it was too late. It was meant to be a lesson to Alto to treasure love before it was too late. Unfortunately, Alto had not shown any revelation in ep 21 so this point was lost to many people.

[KiNA]

Ep 21 was dedicated for Ranka's goodbye... Everything in it points to Ranka development until the last punchline of hers.. Having Alto and Sheryl chitchat moment will definitely silhoutte everything Ranka did. Luca x Nanase little moment is nothing of important, that why we get a glimpse of them.. AxS, on the other hand, cannot afford just a glimpse.

The fact that Alto didnt even chase her (nor replying to her confession) also a -point to AxR ending if he really intend to follows Mikhail's advice

There's always flashback about the visit after the chaos.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

There is purpose to Mikhail's death. The whole speech Klan gave a few minutes prior was the key point. She told him and Alto that because one can die anytime, that one can love and that was when she found the courage to confess her love. She told Alto to remember it well. This point was driven home by Mikhail's death when he finally confessesed, but it was too late. It was meant to be a lesson to Alto to treasure love before it was too late. Unfortunately, Alto had not shown any revelation in ep 21 so this point was lost to many people.

Good catch there, it make more sense. I was kind of shocked (at his sudden death and the recycling footages) back then to realise such relevance.

My only question now is: is it really going to support Alto's decision in later Eps, or even the director missed that as well (and it was just a coincidence that only true fan can pick up)?

[sekidousai]

Question will or will not be answered in the next few ep . So i'm very sure there will be a few glimpse of Michel for his fans. quite sad actually if would not affect Alto's way of thinking about his relationship....

edit: erased, irrelevant... yeah i think it is a linked chain combo for the Klan speech.
Michel gave a lecture to Alto about choosing between Ranka and Sheryl, and then goes on about saying that pilots can die anytime that's why he dates someone he cannot get too attached. And then naked Klan contradicts Michel and goes on saying "How can I fall in love when I'm so afraid of dying.(gg subs)" Or I think she meant was "even in the face of death we should not be afraid to love" or Death should not prevent us from loving.... and then there goes Michel out to the vacuum of space.

add: i've also noticed now that i've just rewatch ep19 that there are Vajra's peacefully watching the concert and they only became violent when Ranka saw SherylxAlto.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

There is purpose to Mikhail's death. The whole speech Klan gave a few minutes prior was the key point. She told him and Alto that because one can die anytime, that one can love and that was when she found the courage to confess her love. She told Alto to remember it well. This point was driven home by Mikhail's death when he finally confessesed, but it was too late. It was meant to be a lesson to Alto to treasure love before it was too late. Unfortunately, Alto had not shown any revelation in ep 21 so this point was lost to many people.

Well, Alto didn´t show a revelation because he wasn´t together with the girl he loves. ^^

[kilroy0097]

We need a normal teenage male character who is rooted in reality. Someone who if they were dating Sheryl would be thinking about nothing more than how to do into her pants the entire time. Now that's a real male teenager.

[sekidousai]

You mean like the teenager in Tonagura and Urusei Yatsura