International Saimoe League 2010

[hinakatbklyn]

Originally Posted by hinakatbklyn

Spoiler for Already mentioned nominations:

If I didn't already mention my nominations:

(1) Mio (K-ON) New Favorite
(2) & (3) Kurimu & Minatsu (Seitokai no Ichizon)
(4) Cecily (Seiken no Blacksmith)
(5) & (6) Mayoi & Tsubasa (Bakemonogatari)
(7) Mikan (To Love Ru)
(8) Hime (Sora no Manimani)
(9) Siron (Book of Bantora) (Honorable Mention)
(10) Azmaria (Chrono Crusade) (Honorable Mention from an older series)

My Favorites in the tournament or Preliminaries already:

Katsura Kinagiku / Kyou (from Clannad)

If there is enough room to spare I can add Yuuki (from Saki)

I decided to compare my original nominations with the current ones.

Siron and Azmaria were only honorable mentions if one of my favorites was not already nominated or I added anyone new.

I made sure Mikoto is in my current nomination list. Airi (Queen's Blade) I added in just recently. Mikan and Hime are still on the list.

[Team Rocket Elite]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Tsukasa still ranked 25th. Perhaps she's strong enough to not get raped by the top-tier, but Yui who should place between 8-14th place should certainly put more of a beating on Tsukasa than 3%. 56-44 would be my guess.

On another note, I don't see Railgun being anywhere near the strength of Clannad, or Taiga. Kotomi will be a tad too much (54-46%) for Misaka, and the other (main) Clannad will straight up beat her down.

56% isn't that far from 54.32% and close enough that I could see happening. Your estimate for where Yui and Tsukasa rank are close to mine, but I think Tsukasa will be able to hold up a bit better than you do.

I'd say Kotomi [55.25%]-Misaka [44.75%] so we're pretty close there as well. I'm not too sure how well Fuuko would do since Fuuko shot up like a rocket in Ruby and Diamond. I'm not sure if I think that's power Fuuko will keep or if the ISML Round Robin just happened to end before Fuuko's boost did. Without the boost, Fuuko could still beat Misaka, it just wouldn't be a stomping.

[KholdStare]

Yui? 8-14th? Lol. She'll be more like Fuuko.

[Team Rocket Elite]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Yui? 8-14th? Lol. She'll be more like Fuuko.

So that's what? 14th? >_>

[KholdStare]

Fuuko is not top 16 material and not even close to Nagisa strength-wise. Yes, I'm disregarding her Ruby/Diamond run, which is the obvious thing to do. Therefore, she's around #20.

[Demi.]

Yui is unquestionably the second strongest K-on character. I'd say a good comparison would be Mio (Fate), Nanoha (Yui) In terms of strength between the two - not that Nanoha and Fate have a similar strength to Yui and Mio... Only estimating from what I've seen so far, but Mio has the potential to match Shana, and while Yui can not, I don't see why the main character in an insanely hyped and popular series would only rank around 20th when Mio is top 4 material.

[KholdStare]

Oh here we go again, K-ON! is insanely popular but alas MSLN is insanely unpopular. Your opinion of what is popular is warped, so that whole analysis is void. K-ON! is not even close to Clannad. It's at best between Clannad and Kanon in terms of popularity, closer to Clannad, so they can beat Mai, and that's it.

Bakemonogatari is "insanely popular," and I don't see Hitagi matching Fate or Nanoha.

Wait, but K-ON! is Kyo-Ani, you say? Well yes! But K-ON!, unlike Clannad, is an anime where opinions are mixed. Do you know which other Kyo-Ani series where opinions are mixed? Lucky Star. Mio is effectively Kagami and Yui is Tsukasa/Konata-level, which is 19-25th after final standings, which converts to 20th for 50-characters.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Oh here we go again, K-ON! is insanely popular but alas MSLN is insanely unpopular. Your opinion of what is popular is warped, so that whole analysis is void. K-ON! is not even close to Clannad. It's at best between Clannad and Kanon in terms of popularity, closer to Clannad, so they can beat Mai, and that's it.

Bakemonogatari is "insanely popular," and I don't see Hitagi matching Fate or Nanoha.

Wait, but K-ON! is Kyo-Ani, you say? Well yes! But K-ON!, unlike Clannad, is an anime where opinions are mixed. Do you know which other Kyo-Ani series where opinions are mixed? Lucky Star. Mio is effectively Kagami and Yui is Tsukasa/Konata-level, which is 19-25th after final standings, which converts to 20th for 50-characters.

My opinions are not warped, I used stats of other sites. Unless you can prove to me my stats are skewed, then my point still stands. And insanely unpopular isn't what I said, but comparing it to the likes of J.C. Staff or Kyoani - You're looking at either one being 70% more popular.

Popularity does't equal ISML rape if many people don't find the character moe, but it still gives a undeniable boost to the character. And while Kagami might have been similar in strength to Mio over two years ago, she would have no chance to defeat her now. 55 - 45 at best. Also, Konata is the one with the most screen time in LS, as most the focus was directed towards her, not Tsukasa, or even Kagami. Yui on the other hand garners more screen time than any other character in the series. Yui is a tier above Tsukasa/Konata which amounts to 5-12 places higher in the standings.

[KholdStare]

Yeah, that's what you think. Yui is a tier below Konata. Screentime? Lol please. That must mean Nagi > Hinagiku. Yui is one of the most hated characters of K-ON! Tsumugi and Ritsu don't have as much popularity, but they're also not hated. When people start calling Yui a side character because she is useless, something's wrong. In short, Yui has the popularity of secondary characters (Konata/Tsukasa) while having the hate of Shana. That's a bad position to be in.

I already gave you statistics, MAL clubs, which is IMO the best indicator of ISML rape. Popularity doesn't equal ISML rape, but obsession does, which are MAL clubs.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Yeah, that's what you think. Yui is a tier below Konata. Screentime? Lol please. That must mean Nagi > Hinagiku. Yui is one of the most hated characters of K-ON! Tsumugi and Ritsu don't have as much popularity, but they're also not hated. When people start calling Yui a side character because she is useless, something's wrong. In short, Yui has the popularity of secondary characters (Konata/Tsukasa) while having the hate of Shana. That's a bad position to be in.

I already gave you statistics, MAL clubs, which is IMO the best indicator of ISML rape. Popularity doesn't equal ISML rape, but obsession does, which are MAL clubs.

Yes, that's also why Mio > Yui, but when you're comparing two moe-blobs with similar personalities and similar series popularty...The newer and the one with more screen time is going to have the clear advantage.

uhm, that's true, and I don't disagree with it, but the more popular a series is, the more opportunity a character has to amass rabid fans. (and fans in general) Obsession/popularity, they both aid in ISML results.

[chaosprophet]

I agree with KS about the Yui/Nagi, Hina/Mio comparison. As Hina/Mio is much more popular than the actual main, it makes lots of people dislike Yui/Nagi cause they would prefer if Hina/Mio was the main...

Well, all in all, I have my doubts about K-On power, maybe sometime back but when the main round starts, K-On already will start to be part of the "old news". There is that extra ep released with 8th DVD but still shouldn't do much. And a second season should be very far.

[KholdStare]

chaosprophet used a better example than Lucky Star, and I concur. Yui will hang around the ranks of Konata/Tsukasa/Nagi, and Mio will undoubtedly be among the ranks of Hina at her best. Nagi has more screentime, kugyuu hate, and Yui has more screentime, airhead hate. QED, sleep, etc...

[Demi.]

You're underestimating them, and there is no point for me to say more until you see it for yourself.

[KholdStare]

So you're just blindly guessing their performance while we use induction to hypothesize that Mio/Yui will be similar to Hinagiku/Nagi. My point is we always have a reasoning behind our arguments, while yours seems to be "because my guts say so." Which is why it doesn't make sense.

[Team Rocket Elite]

K-On being around Lucky Star is about right. Going by Round Robin, Kagami was 7th, Konata was 12th and Tsukasa was 16th. That's a decent area for K-On to land in. We could use DE standings which are even more favorable to Lucky Star as well. We are comparing peak K-On to peak Lucky Star, right? It wouldn't make any sense to use 2009 Lucky Star where the Lucky Star characters have had a year to cool off since K-On is still relatively new, right?

[KholdStare]

Wait, are you using ISML 2008 stats where no one participated to predict for ISML 2010? Also, Lucky Star was memorable. K-ON! is a one-hit wonder, like Saki. No one cares about K-ON! anymore.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Team Rocket Elite

K-On being around Lucky Star is about right. Going by Round Robin, Kagami was 7th, Konata was 12th and Tsukasa was 16th. That's a decent area for K-On to land in. We could use DE standings which are even more favorable to Lucky Star as well. We are comparing peak K-On to peak Lucky Star, right? It wouldn't make any sense to use 2009 Lucky Star where the Lucky Star characters have had a year to cool off since K-On is still relatively new, right?

2008 LS performance, and I'll agree.

Edit: NM, seems we are thinking the same.

Mio (Kagami) Yui (Konata - she won't rank 4th like Konata, but she's still inbetween Mio and Azusa) Azusa (Tsukasa)

So you're just blindly guessing their performance while we use induction to hypothesize that Mio/Yui will be similar to Hinagiku/Nagi. My point is we always have a reasoning behind our arguments, while yours seems to be "because my guts say so." Which is why it doesn't make sense.

I'm using common sense, you're comparing character similarities and strength between characters from the same studio. Our thinking is the same, the problem is you don't factor in LS fading popularity, while K-ON is far more fresh in peoples minds.

And I've seen enough of Mio's performance to know she is going to rape.

[KholdStare]

I am factoring in everything. I'm factoring in how LS isn't fading quickly in popularity while people are already tired of K-ON!

[0utf0xZer0]

I suppose I should start looking at a list. Looking at Wonteak's list, I'm definitely going to be giving close consideration to Isara, Yuuko, Matsuri, and Kagura. EF's Chihiro is also quite likely - if I like a character enough to try my chances with a girl who cosplays her, I like her enough to nominate her for Saimoe.

I'm not that familiar with who is already in for this year. Is Nadeko in? Because if not, she's definitely going to be on there.

Debating whether to use some slots for long shots such as Iriya Kana, Mashiro Mito, Ochibana Ame, Teletha Testarossa, or Murasaki Kuhouin.

[Demi.]

LS is still two yrs older than K-ON. K-ON couldn't fade quick enough. It may wane quicker than LS popularity in the long run, but the main K-ON cast are still very popular.