Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[The Monarch of Roses]

Then the issue and what people are making discussions about is whether its wrong. Imo it isnt.

I see it as 2 guys fighting and then a Jet lee comes by and shoots them all up telling them if they fight against they will be beat again.

If you are going to throw an example at me than do it right because that's what CB did. And here is another one if someone was going around shooting people up and you didn't think that was wrong I don't think I'd want to be your freind.

[Sordes Pilosus]

Honestly. The one that wont die in this series is Saji, he has a Plot Protection over him. People tend to forget how Gundam is Presented to its Viewer's. A Protoganist vs Antiganist (hate this word to spell.) However no Side is "Right or Wrong" directly. In 00 The Federation, Union, AEU and HRL all represented the world today. The world is really split up very much like that today and argue alot like it also. Union agressive, AEU passive and HRL willfull but a little behind on quality.

00 Is being used to present this situation activly to its viewer while not stating it flat out. The Middle east is indeed a place where "God" becommes a easy way to manipulate other's. Its starting to wake up more now but generaly its very Fanatic stil. Saji's character however is being used to represent the "Average Citizen" of the world. "Aslong as its not around me" oh we care alot, but we dont do much about it. That sums up the large majority rather well. We think mainly about ourselves. Saji represents this grouping. His Devolopment now is also meant a little to stear the viewer to understand "Sometimes if one truely wants the world to change, one needs to do something about it themselves and not just wait because the world wont change that way."

[KNIGHTMAREGUNDAM]

Originally Posted by wtfftw

cuz saji is still alive >.>

Thats better. He will have to live with the fact that he is responsible for what happen. Death at this point would be too kind.

[kC88]

Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

Episode 3 is when they save their prisoners right? Exactly how did those people become prisoners anyways? Oh right, because they were dumb enough to fight back using their almighty "hit and run". There has never been an operation that Kataron has succeeded without CB's help. Just like how some people doubt Sergei's legendary status due to him doing jack squat compared to some of the other ace pilots, I doubt Kataron's intelligence because they got NOTHING done on their own.

These people were also sympathsizers, the were probably arressted at some rally trying to oppose the government, which the federation automatically assumed were part of kataron. The fact is, kataron isn't much of a military organization. They win their battles by winning public support.

Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

Having advanced technology and being dumb go hand in hand. Again, when you only have access to PISTOLS, you do NOT under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, fight TANKS. You see how this episode those guys got bombed and sent out their mobile suits? YEAH THAT'S DUMB. There was ZERO chance any of their dumb ballistics were going to so much as scratch the paint off a GN-X 3, let alone kill something. I wouldn't mind Kataron had the writers buffed them up by using real guerilla tactics once in awhile so they can manage to ACTUALLY get hits in on the federation grunts let alone A-Laws, but right now, it's like Ninja Gaiden where numerous guys come out of doors for the SOLE PURPOSE of being killed posing a threat only if you left your controller and ate a two hour dinner.

Yes, they didn't have much chance when they sent out their mobile suits, however, that was also their best, and only option. Would you rather trap your troops and face bombardment? Or possibly buy more time by surprising your enemy with a quick counter attack? Also, your pistol comparison isn't exactly fair. I would say its more like a few rpgs against a few tanks. They can at least damage one or two GN-XIII's.

Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

2. Kataron holds ZERO political power. As people have already stated, SERGEI is the one who holds the key to the future. That is why so many of us care for the opposition, because they have ALL the key players. They have the best pilots, the most political figures, the most undeveloped to be developed characters, PATRICK, and other things. Kataron doesn't hold a candle in world affairs, so unless all of a sudden they get a new member or Klaus/Shirin turns out to be some political big shot, it all holds for naught. Unlike ORB which is a COUNTRY of it's own, Kataron is NOTHING.

True to an extent, I understand your negative views on kataron, however, the point of their organization is to draw in these political figures so they can achieve political influence no matter how small it is. Sooner or later, the public will become disgusted by their own government if they continue these massacres

Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

3. CB recognizes the Federation as an existence part of Aeolia's plan. CB just doesn't like the DIRECTION the Federation is going in, and sees the A-Laws as the violent part of the Federation that needs to be removed. How the Federation is handled is up to the REST OF THE WORLD, not CB. Kataron's existence assuming A-Laws are removed out of the picture is actually something CB would intervene in, because Kataron is also violent and radical in it's actions currently. CB has always held the stance that regardless of how STUPID one party is, if YOU hit them first, YOU ARE WRONG. Marina is the perfect example of what CB wants as an opposition to the Federation once the A-Laws are gone and military influence is gone from political movements. Whether it WORKS or not obviously is not up to say, cause it's not like CB was that damn smart to begin with other than Yummyragi.

Kataron hasn't exactly done alot of violent things. Mainly rescuing people from concentration camps/ prisons. Its not like they're bombing civilian populated areas just to make a point. I could be wrong on this however so feel free to correct me if i am wrong.

[RedWing]

Quite surprisingly, I find myself wanting to see what normal people in the 00 universe think about A-LAWS and Celestial Beings rebirth, kinda like what Saji and Louise gave in the first season.

[wtfftw]

Originally Posted by The Monarch of Roses

If you are going to throw an example at me than do it right because that's what CB did. And here is another one if someone was going around shooting people up and you didn't think that was wrong I don't think I'd want to be your freind.

Then if you wanna throw a correction at me do it right too cuz

I see it as 2 opposing sides fighting in mecha's and then a setsuna comes by and shoots them all up telling them if they fight against they will be beat again.

So now its ok right? Ooh wait you didnt grasp the example nvm >.>

Also i wasnt even disagreeing with you. I just thought you pointed out something interesting and went on looking in it deeper.

Originally Posted by KNIGHTMAREGUNDAM

Thats better. He will have to live with the fact that he is responsible for what happen. Death at this point would be too kind.

i know what you mean but its sorta corny man for me at least. I mean they could just as well have an A-laws spy infiltrate and then gives away the location when the meisters are at that katarons base. That would have been way cooler and realistic for me then what i see now. But i know what you mean and your probably right

[JediNight]

Originally Posted by KNIGHTMAREGUNDAM

Sad, I'm happy that Soma is getting adopted by Sergei and all, but the very thought of murdering many for a chance at happiness... that price is just way too high, its "beyond selling your own soul" high.

I don't quite get how that works? Isn't Soma 18 by now? 4-5 years have passed since the show started, so I would have thought she was an adult.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Except that Saji's ideals, such as they were, are now being tested and he is beginning to see matter from the side of the people who he thought were wrong.



Reminds me of a quote, "The universe does not always give you what you want, it gives you what you need." You'd think Saji already got that wakeup call before this ep though, but I certainly hope this ep makes him realize it.

Originally Posted by KNIGHTMAREGUNDAM

Saji thought that the world wasn't so bad in the past and that Celestial Being just brought destruction. "Ignorant" is what I describe him as. Just because one can't hear the screams or smell the blood doesn't mean people weren't being killed day-in and day-out. He's been in denial about the fact that everything is fucked up because of A-Laws. He can't deny the facts anymore after the massacre in Kataron's base. Honestly it was only a matter of time before the truth punched him in the face, just wish it wasn't that bloody.

Yep which amazes me how so many people in here missed the entire point of half of the episode as their comments are bascially (Saji sucks, Saji pwned ect ect) I hate to say this but this episode and the massacre were needed for Saji to see the world as it really is. KNIGHTMAREGUNDAM said it. Just because you didnt see it or hear it does not meant that death and suffering were not happening all over the world even when he was living a peaceful life going to school. The harsh realties of life do not wait for us to get a foothold before it punches us in the face. He can no longer claim to be naive of the death and destruction the A-LAWS bring with them. To me this is the turning point for Saji Crossroad and his last name makes its all too clear he is at a crossroad must chose a path.

I said before CB is the perfect place for Saji because they are moving according to their feelings. Saji can work with them and say no i dont think this is right and heres why he will have a voice inside CB most people dont get the chance in their life time to make their voice heard and change the world. Saji has a chance for both this episode gave Saji his reason to fight. There is so much more behind his character than majority of people realize. He also has a chance to show Setsuna that he is worth more than just fighting. Also, his opportunity to meet the Nene who is his real enemy may come someday if he stays with CB.

[NyxOne]

Originally Posted by JediNight

I don't quite get how that works? Isn't Soma 18 by now? 4-5 years have passed since the show started, so I would have thought she was an adult.

Soma's 23.

[Sordes Pilosus]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Yep which amazes me how so many people in here missed the entire point of half of the episode as their comments are bascially (Saji sucks, Saji pwned ect ect) I hate to say this but this episode and the massacre were needed for Saji to see the world as it really is. KNIGHTMAREGUNDAM said it. Just because you didnt see it or hear it does not meant that death and suffering were not happening all over the world even when he was living a peaceful life going to school. The harsh realties of life do not wait for us to get a foothold before it punches us in the face. He can no longer claim to be naive of the death and destruction the A-LAWS bring with them. To me this is the turning point for Saji Crossroad and his last name makes its all too clear he is at a crossroad must chose a path.

I said before CB is the perfect place for Saji because they are moving according to their feelings. Saji can work with them and say no i dont think this is right and heres why he will have a voice inside CB most people dont get the chance in their life time to make their voice heard and change the world. Saji has a chance for both this episode gave Saji his reason to fight. There is so much more behind his character than majority of people realize. He also has a chance to show Setsuna that he is worth more than just fighting. Also, his opportunity to meet the Nene who is his real enemy may come someday if he stays with CB.

Nice post. I tutched a little on the importance of Saji in my post a little above yours. It perhaps was not made the best but I presented what Saji represents in the series. Its possible to easily notice what "Roles" Saji and Louise have. Saji represents the "Average Person" and Louise the "Circle of Hate". Basicly Saji is the one that basicly holds what the average "western world" person belives and acts like. While Louise represents those that lose sense of reason and just want vengance continuing a never ending circle of hostility that has pluaged the world (and is pluageing it now in real life also) all over the world. Saji and Louise will represent "Change" how people can step up and take action to improve the world and that its possible to end circles of hate. Basicly thats the "Little red line" in Saji and Louise in the series.

[NyxOne]

What Louise is doing is neither ending hatred nor 'improving' the world, really.

[AlphaDragoon]

Originally Posted by JediNight

I don't quite get how that works? Isn't Soma 18 by now? 4-5 years have passed since the show started, so I would have thought she was an adult.

Even if she's a legal adult, she can still become his just-as-legal daughter. Adoption doesn't have a cutoff age, IIRC.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Sordes Pilosus

Nice post. I tutched a little on the importance of Saji in my post a little above yours. It perhaps was not made the best but I presented what Saji represents in the series. Its possible to easily notice what "Roles" Saji and Louise have. Saji represents the "Average Person" and Louise the "Circle of Hate". Basicly Saji is the one that basicly holds what the average "western world" person belives and acts like. While Louise represents those that lose sense of reason and just want vengance continuing a never ending circle of hostility that has pluaged the world (and is pluageing it now in real life also) all over the world. Saji and Louise will represent "Change" how people can step up and take action to improve the world and that its possible to end circles of hate. Basicly thats the "Little red line" in Saji and Louise in the series.

Nice post indeed and I agree with you. Lots of people think that Louise has death flags waving in the wind and to some extent i do agree with that. But my gut feeling is telling me that Louise and Saji are going to be the ones that represent the end to the circle of hate. Im hoping that they dont take the death path with her because the feeling and lessons to be learned could be much more vivid with Saji helping her outcome her hatred while Saji learns to open his eyes to the world to other peoples suffering not just his own. So im really hoping they dont kill her off because she much more than a Stellar and much more than a Fllay. Her death would be a shame.

I honestly dont expect there to be a shit load more deaths a few key characters but nothing crazy like Gurren Laagan where over half the crew was killed off at the end.

[Sir Dearka]

Such a great episode. I easily give it 10/10. Lots of drama and character development. I sat on the edge of my seat for the whole time. And when the episode ended, I still sat there and thought about how surprisingly good this show has become. I really hope they'll keep up the pace.

And grand Ali returns! Let's hope for some more action and more pain as he is destroyed by the Celestial Being :P

Somehow I feel they're going to pull out yazan here on him , though

[KNIGHTMAREGUNDAM]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

What Louise is doing is neither ending hatred nor 'improving' the world, really.

On a personal level, shes doing this for revenge against the Gundams. As shallow as it sounds that is what she is trying to do.

[NyxOne]

Well, that's still nothing productive. As...destructive...as CB are, they're still a group opposed to tyranny. Destroying the Gundams would just allow hatred to continue and the world would be a crapsack.

[KNIGHTMAREGUNDAM]

Originally Posted by NyxOne

Well, that's still nothing productive. As...destructive...as CB are, they'll still a group opposed to tyranny. Destroying the Gundams would just allow hatred to continue and the world would be a crapsack.

CB may be destructive but at least they try to keep casualties and collateral damage to a minimum when fighting in populated areas. And that is alot more than anyone can say about A-LAWS. Gundams are the only walls against the hatred that sparks war.

[NyxOne]

That's my point. What Louise is fighting for is nothing constructive or good. If the Gundams are destroyed, simply, the world'll be fucked and tyranny'll run rampant.

[Sinestra]

We really cant fault Louise for her behavior she is actually displaying one of humanities ugliest qualities but nonetheless still a human. She is looking for revenge for herself nothing more nothing less. Yes her actions actually serve no greater good but to continue the circle of hate. But she is not thinking about the world she is thinking about her own situation. None of us can predict how we would react if we were placed in the same situation. I can understand her feelings the need for revenge is a very strong motivator. I cant say for sure that i would not take the same route if my entire family were killed in a such a way.

[NyxOne]

Well, if one's family was killed and vengeance brought upon the killer, justice would be done because the family would be avenged, and the world would have one less twisted murderer. Here, it's not so simple- to Louise, the destruction of the Gundams might be good for her, but there are two problems:

1) Lesser- she has no idea who exactly killed her family, but I guess that's rather irrelevant.

2) CB's destruction would send the world into total chaos, which would no doubt make Louise even worse. If she lives.