Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Ithekro]

Probably better than way than to have the audiance say, "Well move stupid".

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by crazysjd89

Skewers and pins don't necassarily have to be with the king though.

For example, a bishop attacking two rooks, one is on the diagonal behind the other rook, is a skewer(Even if one rook moves, the bishop can catch the other one). Or a bishop attacking a knight, with a queen diagonally behind it is a pin(If the knight moves, than the bishop will take the powerful queen).

What happened to Belphegor in the anime is neither, though. A better comparision would be a sacrifice. Every possible square the king can move to is checked, so the only way to avoid it would be to put a piece infront of the opposing piece that is currently checking the king.

In the visual novel, it was a pin. Belphegor couldn't move or else the king would be in check.

yeah that's right, the best fitting comparison is "sacrifice". you move a minor piece in front of a more important piece to protect it, but you still lose the minor piece. Eva putting herself in the middle was a major blunder.

Sad, I guess you can't really give to Rudolf any credit for this, it was just plain luck and not a witty move.

[MeoTwister5]

Fantastic episode, almost solely by the fact that the Kyrie-Levi duel to the Siesta's first shot is the best animated sequence in the series so far.

The Bad:

1. Rudolf's crowning moment of awesome got rather chopped up. Likewise, Evatrice getting between him and Belphegor was a strange directorial choice.

2. I think Kitamura Eri's trying a bit too hard to be cute for Siesta 401. Last I heard her was in Toradora, and IMO her voice tends to sound deeper and more mature than this so it shows. On the other hand, her Nyihihihi sounds good.

The Good:

1. Excellent portrayal of emotions from the cast, specifically the conflict between Battler's rage and Beato's confused and sudden docile shift. Completely sold to me, and that's a good thing considering how important emotions are in this Ep3.

2. Considering all the issues regarding DEEN's music direction throughout the series, the music direction in this episode so far has shown that DEEN CAN do great sound directing, maybe just once in a while.

3. Kyrie's crowning moment of awesome, her Hannibal Lecture on Levi and their subsequent deaths by the Siestas by far is the best animated sequence in the series. I find nothing wrong with them aside from being shortened.

9/10 for me.

[crazysjd89]

Since I couldn't really word it like I wanted to.


A skewer: When two pieces of almost equal value are being attacked, where if one moves the other gets taken and if it doesn't move, it gets taken.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/5669/skewerchess.jpg

In this case, the bishop will take one of the rooks.





A pin: This is what happened to Belphegor in the visual novel. This is where if one piece is moved, a piece of higher value will be attacked.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/200/pinchess.jpg

In this case, black could checkmate white's king by moving the bishop infront of the king. However, he can't do that because the king would then be being attacked by the rook.



A sacrifice: What Belphegor did in the anime. This is moving a piece infront of the king to prevent checkmate. (Although not neccasarily because all other squares are checked. You can choose to sacrifice if moving your king puts you in a compromising position)

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2...ificechess.jpg

In this case, the only option is to sacrifice the rook to protect the king. (And the two pawns are the siestas when they promote, heh.)




And just some additional similar terms:

Fork: A fork is when two pieces are being attacked simultaneously (Not to be confused with skewer and pin, where one is being attacked, but moving it opens the attack on the other.)

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/7834/forkchess.jpg

In this case, both rooks are being attacked by the bishop.




And

Discovery Attack: When one piece moves out of the way, opening an attack with a different piece.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9...overycheck.jpg

In this case, the rook moves, so the bishop is now attacking the king. And also, the king is checked by the rook so the queen can't avoid capture.




Weather or not this is useful at all in solving anything in Umineko, I don't know

[luckyssol]

Excellent episode!

This series of events was hilarious to me though (From Rudolf, Kyire, and Hideyoshi's perspective):
-Teleporting waitress girls appear out of nowhere.
-Rudolf, Kyrie, and Hideyoshi decide to all split up so they all don't get caught. (Huh... didn't they just dodge a bullet by teleporting...)
-One of the waitress girls attacks Kyrie with a laser blade so Kyrie thinks it's a good idea to try having a chat with her.
-After a young version of Eva teleports in out of nowhere Rudolf realizes that she's not immune to bullets so he tricks the waitress into taking the hit.
-Well we just took out the waitress girls but now she's summoned the bunny girls! F**KING RUN!

This episode was adapted pretty well and I loved how they animated the Siestas arrows. I'll give it a 10/10 for using the good BGM this time.

[Endless_Witch_Nipah]

EP was Magnificient!!

+Music Ah Music... Wordlenddominator was OMG AWSOME <33
+THERE NO WAS "SUSPICTION"!! O_O
THANK GODS!!
+Battler RAAAGE!
My heart bleeding... (BeatoxBattler fan)
+Siesta Data Recieved - FIRING
+Hell Yeah Belph and Levi !
+Rudolf & Kyrie = Best Parents Ever?? o_O
+B*tch SLAAAAPP!! >D

- RUDOLF WESTERN SCENE TT_TT

DEEN Great Job.

[Evy]

The good:
-Belphegor's voice sounded exactly how I imagined it.
-KYRIE. KYRIEEEEE!!
-45's voice is SO CUTE.
-The whole Siesta sequence was just amazing.
-Eva when she sees Hideyoshi in the mansion... ;_;

The bad:
-WHERE DID MY DUEL GO!?
-The Hideyoshi and Eva-Beatrice scene. In the VN it was, for me, a Crowning Moment of Tear-Jerking. But there was barely any emotion in it and was 90% Hideyoshi rapping his fist against her head going AHO AHO AHO AHO AHO.
-Oh my god SERIOUSLY what is with DEEN's obsession with corpses with clenched teeth? No, it doesn't make the episode be any less good/more bad/whatever, but it annoys me. :| First Gohda, then Maria, now Rudolf. Just in this arc.
-Again, little to no reaction to finding Rosa and Maria's corpses. Didn't Rudolf cry in the VN? /brainfart

The ???:
- 410's voice is going to take some time getting used to.
-I forget, is George and Battler's Tear-Jerker of a discussion supposed to be before or after Beato and Virgilia's talk?

[KanonTheFurniture]

This...this was the perfect episode. This isn't my favorite part of EP3 as I know it is for many people, but I think given the constraints of the Anime DEEN did absolutely perfect and included everything they needed to, and portrayed the emotion and impact of those scenes flawlessly. I'm not in the bunch that worships episode 5 (the tea parties were perfect, but they definitely rushed over the beginning part of the episode), so to me this is the best episode yet, ahead of my previous favorite (episode 6). If they can keep this up until the end of the arc then I will be VERY happy. Next week will most likely have my favorite scene in this arc, and for the first time I actually can't wait to see how they pull it off...I know that setting my expectations so high is just asking for disappointment, but for once, I think DEEN can do it.

Spoiler for my thoughts:

Ohara is sliding more and more perfectly into her Nice!Beato role. Excellent. Ono's performance as Battler is disgusted with her was fantastic as well. I've yet to find fault with either of these two yet; I feel like even if I can't count on anything else from this Anime, at least the voice acting is absolutely top-notch. Props to Hideyoshi, Kyrie and Rudolf shining in this episode as well, in their respective moments of awesomeness (Kyrie especially). Ito was also brilliant this time around, finally getting the handle on the difference between her Eva and Eva-Beatrice voices. I think Eva especially was handled well.

OMG, I absolutely love the remix of Mind_2 they used when Rudolf & co. first encounter the Stakes. I usually hate that track (it's so short and the scenes it's used in the VN are so long that the constant looping drives me crazy; only time I'll touch the mute button when playing Umineko), but this version was really cool for some reason. One of the first good remixes DEEN has done if you ask me.

And though I wouldn't prefer it to the original, I loved loved LOVED the remix of WorldEndDominator!! That is my absolute favorite track in the series, and while I liked what I heard in episode 10, it was so quiet that it was hard to judge (and it played for all of like 15 seconds in episode 11...). I think this is the first game track besides Suspicion and NightEyes that they've played for so long thus far, and they brought it to an end beautifully as well. Why can't DEEN's musical direction be this good in other episodes?

Finally they mention that Kyrie isn't Battler's real mother. And I'm glad they kept the misscarriage thing and the talk about Asumu. If that had been excluded, with Ryukishi supervising the Anime and all, I would have had to seriously rethink some of my theories.

About Rudolf's victory...it's unfortunate that he gets shafted what really made his scene clever and awesome, and it does come across as him winning by dumb luck in the Anime...but I don't think I would have even thought twice about Eva-Beatrice appearing so suddenly had I not had it pointed out to me in this thread. Maybe I'm just dumb like that, but I think that the otherwise complete awesomeness of the scene makes that something you don't really pause and notice unless you're really looking out for the detail of the Pin to be kept (in my mind I had already forgotten the whole Pin thing, I just remembered 'Belphegor loses because she protects Eva-Beatrice'). So maybe that's something that Anime-only viewers won't really mind...Eva-Beatrice certainly is reckless like that, anyways. Though I kinda wish they had kept Ronove telling her that even as a witch she's still susceptible to bullets. Without that in mind, I dunno, I would have been wondering why Belphegor made such a sacrifice. For some reason, while Furniture seems like something you could kill with human methods (albeit not easily), a witch does not. *shrug*

Very happy with Belphegor and Leviathan's voices, the former in particular. 410's voice is definitely more high pitched than I would have imagined. I pegged her as having a deeper voice, kinda like Belphegor's but more casual/tomboyish. Though I'm not fond of the Siestas in general, so I can handle the voice. 45 was perfect, though.

Holy shit firing sequence was awesome.

Hideyoshi's scene was handled beautifully. I don't think they could have possibly done a better job, and I felt all the same emotion as I did in the VN, though it would have had more impact to have Eva wake up frantically searching for him.

I'm unsure about how I feel about The North Wind and the Sun being included. It seems like it's too late to say it, now. If they wanted to include it they should have mentioned it a few episodes ago...by this point, I feel like things might be more interesting if they left that whole thing out, but...I'm not sure yet.

Aside from those nitpicks, though...perfect, just perfect. 10/10 from me. I feel bad for George, Jessica and Piece!Battler, though. They've gotten all but completely shafted from the past two episodes, lol.

[Ottocycle]

I liked how Rudolf worked in a 36-Strategies reference. Was that in the original game?

[Golden Witch Drugs]

Spoiler for Review:

New seiyuus:
Belphegor - I like her voice. It fits her personality. Although she is a little too tomboy for me when she's angry.
Levianthan - I like her voice, but I would like it a little more childish. And we never got to see her doing the true envy-mode. And also, she has too deep voice when she's mad. That doesn't fit her at all.
Siesta 410 - I actually like her voice. Alot. She has the voice I always imagined her to have. And her "Nihi" was awesome as well.
Siesta 45 - Her voice was okay. No more. No less.

Pros:
- You finally get to see Battler's real anger
- Atsuko did a great job with Kyrie in this episode, her angry voice was awesome
- Siesta shoot is frickin AWESOMEEEEE-O

Cons:
- Very rushed episode
- No duel between Belphegor and Rudolf
- Hideyoshi-Evatrice scene wasn't sad at all, wasn't it supposed to be sad?

Overall impression:
It was a good episode, but there are better. I'll give this a 7.

[Chadauw]

What I enjoyed :
- Musics (Tsuki usagis!).
- The beginning of the chase in the mansion.
- Siestas. About their voice, I liked 410's. 45's is okay.

What I didn't :
- Battler turning his back.
- The duels (especially Rudolf's).
- The golden arrow.
- I found the EVA/Hideyoshi scene pretty bad. It seemed childish rather than sad, and I didn't like the voice acting.
- Again, no emotions during the discovery of the corpses from Battler and George.

7/10

[Tjaard]

Awesome epi, the chara's seiyuu of this part for me was all really good, liked moreover Siesta 410 and Belphegor, Levi & 45's voice was pretty good too.
The duel was really fast but liked the same, Rudolf was awesome on his western-style, and Kyrie's rage was epic.
Hideyoshi smacking Eva-Beatrice was really funny but i remember it sad lol
For the story, i've told this last time too, but this soft Beato is only pitiful for me.

[typhonsentra]

What the hell is with the 180 in Beatrice's personality since the last episode? I couldn't stop laughing when she became so hurt over Battler rejecting her. I mean for God's sake, in one of the previous worlds she trotted his body out naked to be devoured by goat men!

[Leinne]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

What the hell is with the 180 in Beatrice's personality since the last episode? I couldn't stop laughing when she became so hurt over Battler rejecting her. I mean for God's sake, in one of the previous worlds she trotted his body out naked to be devoured by goat men!

She was still playing with her, which she liked, but now Battler doesn't want to play with the witch and the witch is sad, because she's quite a tsundere who likes acting like a bad witch but it's really childish and doen't want to be alone-> telling off evaB and her torture

[musouka]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

What the hell is with the 180 in Beatrice's personality since the last episode? I couldn't stop laughing when she became so hurt over Battler rejecting her. I mean for God's sake, in one of the previous worlds she trotted his body out naked to be devoured by goat men!

Look at it from her perspective. To a witch, that's all fun and games, since nothing is permanent. From her perspective, Battler is just holding a grudge.

[Kitsu]

- Very rushed episode

You crazy? Imagine that if the took a slower pace the next episodes would become something whioch could be described with summary.

[Leinne]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

You crazy? Imagine that if the took a slower pace the next episodes would become something whioch could be described with summary.

You kidding, right? Don't pick on the summaries, they're longer than some eps, *cough*ep1*cough*ep2*cough*

[Jan-Poo]

All right it was a nice episode, apart some flaws I enjoyed this although it isn't on the top of my favorite list.

Asumu was finally mentioned and Battler's family situation has been clearly disclosed.

Sad that they changed the most funny parts of the two duels though. I guess we won't see any "flag" either... too bad.

I couldn't help but finding incredibly hilarious the way Kyrie and Rudolf reacted to the siestas. A sec before they were pointing their guns toward an evil witch and then:

Bunny girls!
We are doomed!
Run for it!

Okay it was the same in the novel, but seeing it is even more funny XD Kyrie and Rudolf weren't supposed o know how deadly those two are and their appearance doesn't make me think of something dangerous.

[chronotrig]

Come on, Jan-poo. It's obvious they sensed the power and menace flowing out of those outfits. Anyone who could wear that in an old mansion on a dark, rainy night is a person to fear

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

All right it was a nice episode, apart some flaws I enjoyed this although it isn't on the top of my favorite list.

Asumu was finally mentioned and Battler's family situation has been clearly disclosed.

Sad that they changed the most funny parts of the two duels though. I guess we won't see any "flag" either... too bad.

I couldn't help but finding incredibly hilarious the way Kyrie and Rudolf reacted to the siestas. A sec before they were pointing their guns toward an evil witch and then:

Bunny girls!
We are doomed!
Run for it!

Okay it was the same in the novel, but seeing it is even more funny XD Kyrie and Rudolf weren't supposed o know how deadly those two are and their appearance doesn't make me think of something dangerous.

Well... they did just escape being killed by two young girls. The moment that Eva-Beatrice said "more powerful and brutal", they probably decided to just toss appearance aside and take her word for it.

But it is funny.
"Waitress girls? Psh! We can take them on."
"Oh no! Not bunny girls!! D: "