2011-02-12, 00:16 | Link #201 |
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I'm just taking into account how they've done nothing in the story far other than fight Section Six, and win.
And most GOOD villains represent something else beyond something for the hero to fight. Some idea, concept, or a turning point in the story. To use an example, I was watching a stream of the Marineford Arc in One Piece. Akainu killed Ace, yeah, but he wasn't only there to kill Ace. He was meant to tell the readers that shit got real, among other things. |
2011-02-12, 00:25 | Link #202 | |
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Although this shouldn't need to be said, keep in mind that we're only a short ways into the story. For now, the Huck's motivations are partly shrouded in mystery. Karen said they were a poison that would destroy the world, and they seem keen on getting Veyron a reactor so he could become one, too. Not to mention, we still don't know the role of the scientist group in all of this. It could very well be the Huck's have other plans that we haven't been made aware of. Or if they don't, then no one else does. In anime terms, this is just the first couple of episode of A's, where we meet the villains but we don't necessarily know their aims or plans. And I know it's the month between chapters thing that is making it seem like this is taking forever. If we had a week between releases, I don't think anyone would be complaining about this stuff much. |
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2011-02-12, 00:34 | Link #203 |
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I said that mostly because it would ruin Isis' character, honestly. She works far more with simple motivations. She's decided she's going to help Touma, and that's that. Hell, Nanoha's not that deep a character when you get right down to it, but people love her.
How deep a goal could these guys have? Even you've said they just seem to want to be left alone, and suddenly declaring they want to destroy entire worlds would make them completely unsympathetic out of nowhere. And even if the scientists have a plot in mind, that doesn't automatically make them deeper by association. |
2011-02-12, 01:12 | Link #204 |
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I consider it one possibility that the Huck's just want to be left alone, and to gather others like them into their family. But considering what Karen refers to them as, it's another possibility that they want to be left alone... so they can accomplish whatever it is they are planning. We'll probably find out more after this battle is over.
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2011-02-12, 01:18 | Link #205 | |
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The Bureau is using MASS-BASED weapons for their mages for the first time since... Well, the wars ended. (There are people who have guns, but very small amounts.)
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2011-02-12, 02:00 | Link #206 | |
The Flame Crussader
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2011-02-12, 02:56 | Link #207 |
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Until the story shows that as a major development in some way (protest groups, military politics, stuff like that), I'm going to view the new weapons as just a way for Section Six to potentially beat them. More an off-shoot of how powerful they are than anything else.
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2011-02-12, 05:54 | Link #208 | |
I Miss NEET Life
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
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Tsuzuki appears to not see beyond showing his enthusiasm for tropes inherited from Super robot War, new mecha parts and duels that pretend to be a war. He don't seem to realize that he have created a powderkeg waiting to explode, he is not realizing that he have created one of the most fucked up societies in the way that it made The Free Planets Alliance from Legend of Galactic Heroes appear like a perfectly functional utopia. When you run all of that through your mind and let it sink, horror hit you. |
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2011-02-12, 07:01 | Link #209 | ||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
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Mass-based heavy weapons, powerful enough to damage a warship, on the other hand... Quote:
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Last edited by Tiresias; 2011-02-12 at 07:53. Reason: Unfortunate Implications! |
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2011-02-12, 08:06 | Link #210 | |
I Miss NEET Life
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2011-02-12, 08:25 | Link #211 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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I have no idea how you all have the patience to go back to each individual post and reply to each one, so I'll just do it generally.
To the people complaining about the uninteresting motivations of the Huckebein that make them crappy antagonists, I think you're thinking about this all wrong. Despite everything that we spend our time bitching about, Touma is ostensibly the protagonist of Force. Yes, I know, it's hard to tell. The rest of the roles fall in place in relation to him. Therefore, so far, I see two groups of antagonists in Force--the Huckebein and the TSAB. And so far, it's hard to see how the two groups of antagonists will drive Touma's story. As for the Huckebein themselves, I think that the banality of their motivations makes them interesting in the context of the TSAB motivations. Though you can argue about evilness and morality with regards to their individual members, the Huckebein on the whole (so far) operates on the principle of "We know we're on the fringes of society, so we try to stay out of your hair and not bother anyone in your charge. You leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone." What's Hayate's response to this? "We'll take steps to stop crime outside of our jurisdiction"? WHOA NELLY! That's a bold statement there. What does that imply for TSAB policy? Forget how our "heroes" (they feel like cogs in the military machine, simply taking orders from above, personally) feel. How does the TSAB truly feel about the Huckebein? Add that to its allowing its top mages to finally use mass-based weaponry, I personally am excited for upcoming changes and developments within the TSAB. And once again, to address the "Haxbein", they are still a largely unknown enemy. They had some limited information on the Huckebein, and they really didn't get much out of Signum's battle. I mean, if she's still unconscious, what could they have learned? Non-5th gen, non-AEC weapons are not fit for use against the Huckebein? They already knew that; Signum already knew that. Its members are very dangerous? It's likely that they knew that. You can argue about the timing of the Wolfram's confrontation with the Huckebein, but Section 6 did take measures to be more prepared. They took the people most suited for the mission, armed them with the best (effective) weapons they had, and sent them off for an initial engagement. Personally, this battle works better if you see it as a probe into enemy strength and capabilities, as well as field-testing for an entirely new class of weapons. It turned out to be a battle that is far harder than anyone probably expected, but any other unit would've been even more screwed, and the next time Section 6 faces the Huckebein, they'll actually have actionable intelligence and tuned weapons. |
2011-02-12, 10:49 | Link #212 | |||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
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Spoiler for Think too hard and you'll realized that TSAB is actually a few steps away from this:
Like I said before,
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Last edited by Tiresias; 2011-02-12 at 11:56. Reason: Okay, I admit that the above picture might be too extreme (I was just looking for an excuse to post that again) |
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2011-02-12, 12:06 | Link #214 | |
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Missed opportunity. |
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2011-02-12, 12:11 | Link #215 | |
Left for TFF
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2011-02-12, 12:26 | Link #216 | |
Adeptus Animus
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But unless this is actually touched upon beyond just a simple commentary left or right, it is largely irrelevant to the story. Heck, only people who actively dig into the background like us would even notice any difference. |
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2011-02-12, 12:28 | Link #217 |
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Not everyone is gonna like everything. Thus, no matter what happens, there is gonna be someone who is gonna bitch.
Me personally... I have no issues with the Hucks or the way the TSAB society is presented. It is quite plausible. Hell, the Star Trek Federation worlds are the more implausible to me. Eliminated money? Eliminated Bigotry? Everyone works for high ideals instead? Psh. |
2011-02-12, 12:54 | Link #218 | |
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And they do represent something beyond something for the heroes fight. Like I've said before, they're people stuck in an unfortunate situation where they have to kill to live. They represent how people will do what they need to when pushed into a corner, even if such things aren't deemed acceptable. They show that even if they are non-repentant killers, they still have values and care for their family deeply. Also, like Akainu, they also show that shit got real. Like has been said, they haven't gotten much of a chance to do much else. You forget that that was exactly Regius's motivation for doing what he did. The Navy snapped up all the talented mages, leaving the ground forces greatly under powered. That's why he resorted to the Combat Cyborg project.
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2011-02-12, 13:07 | Link #219 |
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Again, Raiser, unless they actually begin to be protrayed like that, I don't see why I should view them as such when they haven't really been all that sympathetic. Any arguments for them are pretty much entirely fanon at this point.
And one can argue that shit was already fairly real in the Nanoha universe, even as far back as season 1. Precia did that job way better than the Huckebeins. One Piece was infamous for not letting any character die on-screen, and when that happened, it was something. Have one of the Huckebeins kill an important character, and yeah, then I'll agree with that. |
2011-02-12, 13:11 | Link #220 | |
Left for TFF
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I've heard people say "what a bitch" when they saw Shamal ripping out Nanoha's Linker Core.
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manga, nanoha force |
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