Valvrave the Liberator - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[ReddyRedWolf]

The guy in the shellformer spouting your mech is an ancient weapon and obsolete, you've fought this long enough, and truly you are of the Legendary Golden 7 but...

You think he is going to take a hint this mech and pilot lasted this long and famed that he would be damn careful as he could be killed by their experience alone.

Damn thing wasn't even a challenge for Saki.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Dop

I love how everyone seems to be assuming the pre-opening sequence is part of the storyline when for all we know it's Saki's dream/fantasy/personal fan-fic and has absolutely nothing to do with any actual plot of the show!

Is there any sort of indication of that? All hints point to it being something that will occur in the future, and no where does it hint at it being some sort of imaginary scenario.

Further, if it has nothing to do with the plot of the show, what is the point of showing it?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Of course it was on the table, and a serious option. If a character is in a mecha battle in the vacuum of space, and if that character's mecha gets obliterated with him/her still in it, then by all rights, that character should die (yes, I'm aware of a ridiculous Gundam Seed exception to this, but that's an exception, not the rule). Even actual vampires would not survive that.

Prior to this episode, it was not at all impossible to imagine that Saki could die in battle. I mean, if it did happen, it would have been a bit surprising, but it was hardly unthinkable.

Now it is unthinkable because of the time-skip scene we saw.

Sure, that's a perfectly logical assumption to have. But, does that rule (if we can even call it that) apply here?

Here's the thing. After watching L-elf gut Haruto like a fish and proceed to empty an entire clip into hit body, and being constantly reminded that Haruto and Saki were nigh-indestructible, would it make sense to have them be killed just because they were piloting a mech and it blows up?

We can argue if the blast (possibility of incineration) might kill or cripple them, as L-Elf had theorized in this episode. But the likelihood is that they would survive, since once they agreed to the terms and conditions of the VVV, they stopped being human and became something else. They refer to themselves as vampires, but they don't match up to the traditional image of the creature. And that's really why I said it was never a serious option, since it wouldn't make sense for something that the series had spent time showing us was immortal only for it to turn out it wasn't so.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I didn't either. But there's a difference between 100% certitude and a small smidgen of doubt. For me, that difference can be huge when it comes to how suspenseful an action scene is.

I don't think that she wasn't in danger of being killed either way since they were clearly aiming to capture her and her unit, which was the main source of suspense in the scene. It's still a fair point, I just don't think it's as important as you are making out to be.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's not just that we know that Saki will live through the series, though that's important in and of itself. It's also that she's in perfect health, perfect beauty, and capable of smiling. That really limits the number of possible negative things that could conceivably happen to her.

At that moment.

Just because someone is happy at a moment in their lives, doesn't mean they hadn't suffered in the past. 214 years is a really long time, and a lot of things occur during that time period. The only things that is limited by showing Saki in that scene is that 1)she won't die (or at least that any death she experience she'll be able to recover from it) 2) she won't age and 3) she won't become cold by the time she is 231.

It does not limit the possibility she might be captured by Dorssian forces, that she might fail to save people important to her, that she might end up be labelled a criminal and be on the run constantly.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Anyway, it's fine if you don't see this the way I do, but given what I personally find interesting and suspenseful, my opinion here is not at all likely to change.

I can understand where you are coming from, and I'm sorry if it might seem like I'm marginalizing your concerns. I'm not saying that you should force yourself to feel worried for Saki, and I understand that the thought that she manages to live for 2 centuries worth of events from the current point does remove an element from any battle she is part off, and you feel that lessens the tension. That's understandable.

My view is that Saki managing to live that long doesn't make her fights less interesting, nor make me less worried about what will happen to her. It just means she won't truly die for a really long time, and that she will remain a major player from now on.

[orpheus2]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

The guy in the shellformer spouting your mech is an ancient weapon and obsolete, you've fought this long enough, and truly you are of the Legendary Golden 7 but...

You think he is going to take a hint this mech and pilot lasted this long and famed that he would be damn careful as he could be killed by their experience alone.

Damn thing wasn't even a challenge for Saki.

True. He was just asking to get himself killed. Where was his reinforcements? You don't take down a legend by yourself.

It's good to see Saki surviving 200 years.

R.I.P. Aina.

How is Q-Vier not reprimanded for breaching his orders?

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by zztop

As mad as Valvrave is, I'm still watching it for the plot/world-building questions it raises:
1) What IS the Valvrave? If there are supposed to be 7 of them, where are the other 2?
2)What is L-11's master plan for revolution, and how does Haruto figure into this?
3)Who is the girl in L-11's photo, and how could she be linked to L-11's plans?
4)What are the true workings of the Dorssian government?
5)Is the conflict between Dorssia and ARUS one of ideology, or something sinister/greater?
6)To whom does Future Saki owe a promise to?

Feel free to speculate on these questions!

These are my guesses from what I can gather so far:

1. I think the Valvrave are half mechanical and half-supernatural. A large clue was given this episode when Aina mentioned spirits and how they would grant the pilot the ability to possess another body and be immortal. Another clue is in the names they throw around. We have already realized that "Valvrave" might relate to the "Valravne" of Scandinavian mythology. There is further the fact that the planned manga for Saki also mentions "Valkyries" which also have to do with Scandinavian mythology and Valkyries and Valravne actually do have a connection between them. We won't know anything concrete until they show more, but I'm guessing that there will be a spirt part to this. As for the other 2, I'd say VVVII is hidden in another location, and that VVVVII hasn't been built/completed yet.
   
2. L-11 is trying to change the course his country is currently on as he probably believes it will only cause it to fall to ruin. He is also doing this for Licht from the picture. As for Haruto, he states that the young man will become his "right hand" which can either mean he wants him to be his primary weapon against Dorssia, or also as his partner in this fight against the empire.
   
3. The girl is the Dorssian Princess who may or may not be named either "Licht" or "Liselotte". She definately has some connection to L-11's past and is either a sibling, half-sibling, or very close friend. He is probably doing all of this for her.
   
4. Dorssia seems to be an imperial totalitarian government. There also seems to be a council of masked figures shown as well who might have a hand in the government. There are princesses and princes so that suggest that leadership is decided by birth, but they royalty might also be ranked since A-drei is not only allowed to be in the extremely dangerous special-forces, but he also doesn't have much authority or garner that much respect from his position as prince.
   
5. The conflict between Dorssia and the ARUS seems pretty straightforward. Dorssia believes that military strength symbolizes superiority and that that gives them the allowance to attack and annex any nation that "allows" themselves to be weaker. The ARUS seems to have made their alliances from mutually benificial trade agreements or from nations afraid of being consumed by Dorssia and wanted the protection of the stronger nation. ARUS is trying to protect themselves by force from Dorssia who seems simply interested in taking over the world. Dorssia's policies seem to stem from an event known as "Bloody Thursday". If we find out more about that event, we'll probably find out even more.
   
6. It could be anybody, a friend, lover, husband, there are too many possibilities for me to guess at this point. I'd say it more than likely will be Shoko, Haruto, L-elf, or someone we have yet to see her form a connection to.

[cyberdemon]

A-drei and L-elf are starting to sound a bit like Lelouch and Suzaku. A-drei and Suzaku trying to change dorrsia/ brittania from the inside, and Lelouch and L-elf trying to force a revolution. though the role of prince and soldier were switched between the 2.

Licht is probably A-drei's sister. L-elf was probably her protector and a childhood friend to her and A-drei. something must've happened to her though which is what set the 2 on their path. A-drei's level of understanding for L-elf this episodes shows that he likely knew L-elf was planning a revolution but thought it would be one at his side and is more vexed at the betrayal towards him rather than the country.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Here's the thing. After watching L-elf gut Haruto like a fish and proceed to empty an entire clip into hit body, and being constantly reminded that Haruto and Saki were nigh-indestructible, would it make sense to have them be killed just because they were piloting a mech and it blows up?

We can argue if the blast (possibility of incineration) might kill or cripple them, as L-Elf had theorized in this episode. But the likelihood is that they would survive, since once they agreed to the terms and conditions of the VVV, they stopped being human and became something else. They refer to themselves as vampires, but they don't match up to the traditional image of the creature. And that's really why I said it was never a serious option, since it wouldn't make sense for something that the series had spent time showing us was immortal only for it to turn out it wasn't so.

Floating around in space is going to be real fun though...

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

A-drei and L-elf are starting to sound a bit like Lelouch and Suzaku. A-drei and Suzaku trying to change dorrsia/ brittania from the inside, and Lelouch and L-elf trying to force a revolution. though the role of prince and soldier were switched between the 2.

Licht is probably A-drei's sister. L-elf was probably her protector and a childhood friend to her and A-drei. something must've happened to her though which is what set the 2 on their path. A-drei's level of understanding for L-elf this episodes shows that he likely knew L-elf was planning a revolution but thought it would be one at his side and is more vexed at the betrayal towards him rather than the country.

A-drei is 10x better than Suzaku, he's even voiced by FukuJun (Lelouch) just to show us how not-Suzaku he is.

A-drei actually seems to want to employ Lelouch's later plans, of becoming Emperor in order to change things.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Floating around in space is going to be real fun though...

I never said it's going a pleasant experience. Provided they survive the explosion (which is sure to hurt), lack of/extremely low temperature and absence of breathable air will be sure to make them go through several painful deaths before they are rescued/captured. (Unless the freezing hinders the regenerating factor, at which point they'll probably just be a floating corpse).

But they should still be able to live through it. Unless L-Elf wasn't lying and their weak point is the brain, then they will be suffering from sever damage.

[Anh_Minh]

Or they'll just go unconscious till they're somewhere they can wake up.

[NeutralZero]

Assuming that they're your common vampire...
If we recall there's a vampire series where in the vampire can fly into space... who knows if their deviancy as a vampire even incorporate capable of breathing through space...

[Arabesque]

Looking at Haruto, it doesn't seem like they go unconscious for long. Granted, to recover completely takes a longer while, but within moments of being shot (and crushed underneath rubble) he was able to regain consciousness.

So yeah, unless freezing get in the way, it going to be a cycle of painful death -> regenerate -> painful death -> regenerate ... till they are salvaged.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by orpheus2

How is Q-Vier not reprimanded for breaching his orders?

H-Neun is arguably the same, engaging Haruto when he was told to fall back. I feel as if there were a few other cases of the Dorssian elite soldiers not strictly adhering to orders, and they seemingly weren't reprimanded for it either. It sort of ruins the image of the Dorssian forces being some elite military group. Instead they come off as being a bunch of children with toys that just happen to be more powerful than those of their opponents.

[Grey]

That 200 year timeskip definitely caught my interest. Maybe because timeskips allow us to see more change, facets, and breadth in the world? I don't know.

Here's hoping they can make it entertaining.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

H-Neun is arguably the same, engaging Haruto when he was told to fall back. I feel as if there were a few other cases of the Dorssian elite soldiers not strictly adhering to orders, and they seemingly weren't reprimanded for it either. It sort of ruins the image of the Dorssian forces being some elite military group. Instead they come off as being a bunch of children with toys that just happen to be more powerful than those of their opponents.

Well you have to remember that L-11, A-3, X-1, H-9. and Q-4 are all a special forces group from the Karlstien Institut separate from the regular military. They probably are given some lenience because of their status and as they are directly under Col. Cain it's up to him how and if they are reprimanded. I think that if L-11 returned and Cain allowed it, he would be reinstated despite everything.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

So yeah, unless freezing get in the way, it going to be a cycle of painful death -> regenerate -> painful death -> regenerate ... till they are salvaged.

If it's anything like the immortals in Geass (and it is the same writer) they can pretty survive anything so long as their remains are in a survivable area for them to regenerate. C.C. was burned at the stake in her past and regenered from ashes. She was crushed under the sea, but healed once her remains floated to the surface. And it was implied that she could be chopped to pieces with a chainsaw and later reassembled and the pieces would heal and reform her.

So being shot down in space probably wouldn't kill them....provided their remains were retrieved and brought back to atmosphere. Otherwise they'd probably be "stuck" so to speak.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

So being shot down in space probably wouldn't kill them....provided their remains were retrieved and brought back to atmosphere. Otherwise they'd probably be "stuck" so to speak.

This assumes that their immortality isn't tied to their Valvrave unit. We don't know at this point.

[Aeshma]

Are we really supposed to care about Aina dying? She had like 30 lines at most.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Aeshma

Are we really supposed to care about Aina dying? She had like 30 lines at most.

I don't think it's really about her specifically, but about what her death will mean to the rest of the main cast as well as the overall plot. I think her death is a clear turning point for the show and will effect certain more important characters in the long run.

[JohnNiles]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

H-Neun is arguably the same, engaging Haruto when he was told to fall back. I feel as if there were a few other cases of the Dorssian elite soldiers not strictly adhering to orders, and they seemingly weren't reprimanded for it either. It sort of ruins the image of the Dorssian forces being some elite military group. Instead they come off as being a bunch of children with toys that just happen to be more powerful than those of their opponents.

I think this is basically what kills mecha anime for me every time. Normal solders who follow orders and fight in a coordinated fashion are boring, so bring out the psychotic kids!

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I never said it's going a pleasant experience. Provided they survive the explosion (which is sure to hurt), lack of/extremely low temperature and absence of breathable air will be sure to make them go through several painful deaths before they are rescued/captured. (Unless the freezing hinders the regenerating factor, at which point they'll probably just be a floating corpse).

But they should still be able to live through it. Unless L-Elf wasn't lying and their weak point is the brain, then they will be suffering from sever damage.

It's not survival, but the boredom....


I can only imagine how well something like that will go for someone with Saki's attitude if she's retrieved only decades later.