2010-03-03, 05:10 | Link #3042 |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 51
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It's because it's a blatant alias that the theory still holds. We know he's got a full name, he just hasn't given it yet. Either we'll find out his full name or he'll pull a delayed Nakagawa (or more likely have one pulled on him) and end up with Fujiwara as his only known name. Every other character in the series follows that rule, if you assume Mori and the Tamaru brothers (if they really are brothers) are espers.
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2010-03-03, 12:29 | Link #3043 |
Kneel Before Your King!
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1. Technically speaking, the word is mirai-jin. You can't remove the fact that the guy is from the future the same way you can remove someone's esper/pseudo-esper powers, and it's made pretty clear that he didn't get dragged along like Kyon did.
2. The fact that you have to assume those three are espers is pretty telling as it is. 3. Miyoko Yoshimura, also known as Miyokichi. There is absolutely no evidence that she is anything other than what she seems. Seriously, that theory should be dead by now.
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2010-03-03, 14:19 | Link #3044 | |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
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2. They belong to the Agency, right? It's not a very big stretch, especially for Mori, who definitely appears to be more than she seems in Volume 7. Also there's some ambiguity about the "brothers" in that we're explicitly told that they are fellow members of Itsuki's organization and are portraying roles. Tamaru as a last name may be an alias, and they may not even be brothers. 3. There's also little evidence that she actually exists. The only times we've heard of her have been during Kyon's story in Editor in Chief and during Volume 9 when Kyon is trying to recall some memories to Itsuki and quite possibly bullshitting him. We've never actually met Miyokichi. She may not even exist, or her name "may be changed to protect the innocent". In either case, numbers 2 and 3 could easily just be chalked up to foreshadowing. Number 1 has other options. The main reason the name theory works is that it is does work in every other case than the three mentioned above, all of which have some ambiguity. "Powered" characters: Haruhi Suzumiya Itsuki Koizumi Mikuru Asahina Yuki Nagato Ryoko Asakura Emiri Kimidori Kyoko Tachibana Kuyoh Suou Non-"powered" characters: Kyon Kyon's sister Tsuruya-san Taniguchi Kunikida Okabe-sensei Computer Club President Arakawa Nakagawa (depowered) Student Council President Sakanaka Sasaki (depowered, supposedly) Unless I've missed any, that's every other "named" character in the series (leaving off "Megane-kun" and the presumed "Slider-tan" as they are unnamed by anyone but the fans), and they all follow the rules.
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2010-03-03, 17:10 | Link #3045 |
Moo
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Doesn't Sakanaka have a first name, though?
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2010-03-03, 17:20 | Link #3046 | |
ねぇ、知ってる?
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2010-03-04, 02:13 | Link #3047 | |
Sav'aaq!
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2010-03-04, 02:18 | Link #3048 |
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In the case of Haruhi, I question this.
The Movie/Anime canon is almost identical to the novel canon. KyoAni is rightly famous for its very faithful adaptations. So much so that I don't see a problem with viewing the anime/movie canon as almost equivalent to the novel canon, really. Go with the novel in the precious few instances where the two conflict, but if the anime introduces something that the novel didn't (but which is compatible with novel canon), then I don't see a problem with considering that anime element part of real canon, unless a future novel contradicts it. And Sakanaka (and others) having two names would be one such element. Heck, one Haruhi anime episode was even wrote by Tanigawa directly. Honestly, quigon, I think that you're a bit too attached to your two name vs. one name idea. I really do think that the Movie has blown that out of the water. I can't imagine Tanigawa greenlighting the use of two names for these characters if he viewed "two names" as a key point of distinction, as it is in your theory. I also don't think that KyoAni would make a significant change with out first throwing it by Tanigawa, but I could be wrong there.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2010-03-04 at 02:57. |
2010-03-04, 03:30 | Link #3049 | |
ねぇ、知ってる?
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I don't have an opinion one way or the other regarding the name theory, but I don't agree with saying that if the animated canon doesn't conflict then it counts for novel canon. It doesn't contradict novel canon, but it isn't novel canon. It's only a highly rated secondary canon until it is confirmed or denied by the novels, no matter if Tanigawa may have given the list an okay. Until she's given a name, he hasn't named her, and we don't have any reason to believe that he created the list for KyoAni. But maybe I'm weird in that I don't like to mix original and adaptation canons at all unless it's explicitly stated by the creator that they're meant to be combined. |
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2010-03-04, 03:39 | Link #3050 | ||
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At least not in the case of Haruhi, where the anime is designed to very closely mirror the novel. Quote:
I don't get the sense that KyoAni is aiming for the Haruhi anime to be a less-than-real secondary canon (some animes do, of course, such as Shakugan no Shana). I think that KyoAni's take on Haruhi is meant to, in some instances, add to the real canon of the basic Haruhi story. To flesh it out a bit, as it were. Take E8 for example. One could argue that this fleshes out, to a great degree, what happened in some of the time loops that weren't shown. The novels do have some gaps in them, and I do think that the anime can fill those gaps (as long as it doesn't simultaneously contradict the novels, of course). Just my opinion.
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2010-03-04, 03:40 | Link #3051 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Age: 34
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Anyway, I don't agree with you in the least. The anime is the anime and the novel is the novel, no matter how similar they are. |
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2010-03-04, 03:49 | Link #3052 | |
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No, I don't mean that, Kaisos.
Thanks to Nagato's exposition during E8 (in the anime), we have a pretty good idea of what the SOS Brigade did from one time loop to the next. And, we also have a pretty good idea of how Kyon, Koizumi, Mikuru, and Nagato tended to address the time loop problem until the very last loop. That's not insignificant. It does reflect on their characterization. Quote:
So, Kaisos... what is "Someday in the Rain" to you? Real canon? Novel canon? Anime canon? The very existence of "Someday in the Rain", as an anime original episode done by the writer of the Haruhi novels, really blurs the line for the distinction that you're tying to make here.
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2010-03-04, 04:38 | Link #3053 |
Kneel Before Your King!
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To be quite honest, I've argued for both sides of this canon debate on a number of things, and in the end, it's pointless either way you look at it. The simple fact is this: While it's true that there's no proof Tanigawa had anything to do with these particular decisions, there's also no proof he didn't. Like Triple_R said, the anime has been mostly faithful to the novels, so I'd think it's safe to assume they would at least run things by Tanigawa before actually doing it, especially when dealing with a character that actually has some relevance later on.
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2010-03-04, 06:56 | Link #3054 | |
Koh nara dekiru!!!
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2010-03-04, 14:12 | Link #3055 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
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You've never actually read E8, have you? Quote:
This differs from, say, Lone Island and Live Alive, which in the anime are rather different from how the novel plays out. I do not see the point in trying to combine the two canons. You have to understand the differences between various forms of media. That's incredibly stupid. |
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2010-03-04, 15:38 | Link #3056 | |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Age: 51
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And Tanigawa can't have last word on everything from the movie. No movies work like that regarding their original authors, especially animated movies where lots of time you have individual animators throwing in little Easter Eggs and such that are not even part of the original storyboarding, much less the source material those storyboards are based off of. That there are anything more than the most superficial of differences means that they don't share canon. (and it's a more than a "precious few instances", or did you miss Remote Island Syndrome, Live Alive, and Day of Sagittarius?).
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2010-03-04, 16:27 | Link #3057 | |
Otaku Apprentice
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Spoiler for anyone who gets along with Haruhi is unique or one of the 4 she mentioned (alien time traveler esper. and slider?):
(more like the new member who seems interested...)
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2010-03-05, 00:01 | Link #3059 |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 51
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Entirely possible. But it's inarguable that someone called Kyon to start the α timeline (breaking it off of the β timeline in which Sasaki called Kyon instead), fueling supposition that she's a slider. Whether the enthusiastic freshman is the same person is in question, but there is the Law of Conservation of Detail to consider.
And that paragraph also nicely illustrates how the theory that Slider-tan is an alt!Imouto is so popular. Tell me that wouldn't make that entire paragraph a CMoA on second readthrough? ^_^
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shounen, sneaker bunko, seinen, light novels, manga |
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