Nanoha Franchise General Discussion Thread

[00-Raiser]

Depends on what one means by dimensions. I imagine a lot of as think "parallel universe" when they hear dimension but that's not always the case.

[itanshi1]

The thing that gets me, dimensional travel should have no such thing as subspace or dimensional space. That's like saying there's something between onion layers. I'm inclined to think the terms are mixed up in the canon.

[Keroko]

I like to think of dimensions as bubbles in water. Traveling between bubbles means you're traveling through the water, the water in this case being the dimensional sea.

[Sunder the Gold]

Ultimately, it doesn't matter that much.

What matters most is that Midchilda is not an alternate Earth, and that even if an alternate Earth existed, no one has the technology to prove it, let alone travel to it.

Whether or not multiple inhabitated planets exist within the same dimension isn't important when all of the spaceships are capable of dimensional travel anyway.

It would only be significant if Earth already had a space force of its own, but lacked the technology to reach Midchilda. Which would generally only matter if Earth and Midchilda were at war.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I like to think of dimensions as bubbles in water. Traveling between bubbles means you're traveling through the water, the water in this case being the dimensional sea.

That's generally how I view it too, but that suggests you can't travel between worlds 'the long way' by going through physical space because they don't exist in the same universe.

[Keroko]

Well, yes, but how is that a problem?

[00-Raiser]

It would mean that Earth and Mars aren't on the same plane of existence.

[Keroko]

.... I am completely confused how you arrived at that conclusion.

[Sunder the Gold]

He's thinking in terms of Planets As Worlds/Dimensions instead of Solar Systems as Worlds/Dimensions.

[00-Raiser]

All the worlds are shown to be simply different planets, like Earth and Mars, so if you can only get to them via dimensional travel it means each planet is in its own dimension.

It also means that if you go far enough in one dimension you'll hit an invisible wall that you can't pass through.

[itanshi1]

If its the MtG angle, then each world is a Plane and subspace is the Blind Eternities. The series always shies against modern technology, space travel etc, so it doesn't solve it.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

All the worlds are shown to be simply different planets, like Earth and Mars, so if you can only get to them via dimensional travel it means each planet is in its own dimension.

Earth's dimension has to include the sun, which in turn includes Mercury and Venus at least. Which is why I would assume a dimension is at least as big as a solar system, rather than just one planet and any moons it may have (and Midchilda has a LOT of moons).

It also means that if you go far enough in one dimension you'll hit an invisible wall that you can't pass through.

That's one possibility. The other is that the Nanohaverse is actually a multi-verse, and Midchilda is just one planet in a universe full of infinite planets, while Earth is another planet in a seperate universe which is also full of infinite planets.

In which case, it's a real waste of a multiverse.

The major (if not only) distinction of a multiverse or parallel universe or alternate timeline reality is that travel happens SIDEWAYS. You step through a door in one world and exit into another world.

Travel doesn't happen sideways in Nanoha. You have to cross actual distance in order to get from planet to planet, even if you get to cheat the laws of time and space with magic and technology to achieve faster-than-light travel.


I see the Time-Space Administration Bureau as the Bureau of Policing Those Worlds Which Have Achieved Time-Space-Cheating Travel, and also Lost Logia Which Cause Time-Space Distortions that Destroy A Lot Of Stuff.

If you don't have one or other, they don't need to Administer you, because you simply cannot cause any damage to anyone not on your own planet. Without faster than light travel, you are strictly local.

[00-Raiser]

But they've shown to not only categorize under developed planets, but also interferes with them without the consent of the ruling party.

The Bureau's looking more egotistical by the minute. It's not wonder several groups want to break free of them.

[Tiresias]

Multiverse-spanning? Honestly, I have trouble imagining the TSAB as a galaxy-spanning entity. I mean, how many planets have they even categorized? The highest number AW is Supools, which is 61, while the highest number NAW is Earth, which is 97.

Considering the ridiculous number of planets in this galaxy alone...

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

But they've shown to not only categorize under developed planets, but also interferes with them without the consent of the ruling party.

The Bureau's looking more egotistical by the minute.

Heh, reminds me of a certain comment at SpaceBattles

Spoiler for Quote:

I barely had to change anything to make them into something which combines the worst aspects of imperialism (taking that which it desires from backwater planets, namely mages and magical technology while leaving them conflict-ridden and "Unadministered") even while maintaining a hydraulic despotism over advanced magitechnology, and suffering such an endemic infestation of unethical scientific research projects that one might think that the people in charge encourage them such that they're easily deniable, aided, abetted and protected by a tight-knit pseudo-matriarchy of walking WMDs, cyborg supersoldiers and clones who use some kind of magical mind-control built into their "non-lethal" weapons systems which causes a remarkable rate of "conversion" (the so-called "Befriending") of former foes.

It's not wonder several groups want to break free of them.

Wait, when did this happened?

[LostSome]

So... 61 planets is small ?
Good luck having a unanimous vote on anything.

[Tiresias]

We have listed at least 700 of them out there. Mind you, that's what our puny Earth sensors and observation methods could manage right now - it doesn't cover the whole galaxy, that's for sure - and not the ultra-advanced magitech the TSAB is supposed to possess.

And now that we think about it, what counts as a Non-Administrated World anyway? Does (currently) uninhabitable planets like Mars counts?

[LostSome]

Doesn`t TSAB already have a lack in manpower ?
Spreading to thin is probably a problem.
For AWs, I can see it as a major reason.

[Tiresias]

But what about NAWs? Remember that we managed that 700 count without spaceships You'd think Midchilda's academicians would be more productive than that.

Point is, I seriously doubt that the TSAB patrols multiple universes considering the absurdly low number of worlds they have noted

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

All the worlds are shown to be simply different planets, like Earth and Mars, so if you can only get to them via dimensional travel it means each planet is in its own dimension.

It also means that if you go far enough in one dimension you'll hit an invisible wall that you can't pass through.

Well, of course they'd be different planets. If you travel to a different dimension, you find different galaxies and thus different planets. I don't see a problem there.

And the end of the universe theory still exists to this very day.

Originally Posted by Tiresias

And now that we think about it, what counts as a Non-Administrated World anyway? Does (currently) uninhabitable planets like Mars counts?

I'd say they at least need a civilization. Not much to administer if there's nothing to administer.

[al103]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

But what about NAWs? Remember that we managed that 700 count without spaceships

Yeah, riiiiight... How much of that 700 HABITABLE? Every one of shown AW and NAW are habitable. And even with habitable ones IIRC unsettled and non-administred are different thing.

UPDATE: Yeah, just checked - orbital prisons are around "Uninhabited world NUMBER". Which is third different class and doesn't mean "uninhabited" too - as probably nobody cares to number that ones.

PS. So yes, uninhabitable don't count and habitable but Uninhabited are in different class then NAW.