(L) Haibane Renmei opinions?

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by FireChick

Well, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I'm the kind of person who likes both dubs and subs.

And? I like both dubs and subs as well but when it comes to Haibane Renmei, it's just that much better subbed.

But whatever, watch whichever one you want.

[FireChick]

I really wish someone would save this title. All the other discontinued boxsets I found in various places range from $70-$190!

[Alphard]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

And? I like both dubs and subs as well but when it comes to Haibane Renmei, it's just that much better subbed.

But whatever, watch whichever one you want.

True, but I feel its natural for people to choose dubbed when they want to be able to enjoy the art in the anime as well.

Honestly, I wasn't able to fully appreciate it while I was reading the subs, and though I don't exactly enjoy the dub it allowed for me to notice and enjoy things I hadn't seen before.


I feel this is one of those win-lose situations.

[Tempester]

I loved this series. But the last episode confused me quite a bit.

Spoiler for episode 13:

I know a lot of people loved the last episode, and so did I, but the climax in the middle part involving the railroad track confused me. I actually understood the symbolism, and the scene was beautifully directed, but it seemed to have no logical buildup.

After she drives Rakka out, Reki seems to have an internal conflict. A younger version of her seems to mirror the source of her conflict in my eyes. Ok, that made perfect sense to me.

Rakka reenters the room to save Reki, who seems to be reliving her nightmarish dream. But Rakka seems to be experiencing it too? I could see this as metaphoric as well but it seems way too elaborate, especially when the younger Reki appears to physically hold Rakka back in her tracks.

And if they actually experienced this scene in the way we saw it, it really doesn't make any sense. There was no magical dream briefcase from Inception to lead us to this climax. It just sort of spontaneously happened.

Reki finally overcomes her denial and calls for Rakka's help, and the nightmare apparently shatters. It seems that both of them have "woken up," but the nightmare continues as the train seems to burst from the painting towards Reki. Rakka classically pushes Rakka out of harm's way, and the nightmare finally ends. A wonderful message is delivered here: Reki needs to help herself before she can be helped by Rakka. But the gappy logic of this climax alienated me and kept me from enjoying the conclusion as much as I should.

So what actually happened in this scene?

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Tempester

Spoiler for episode 13:

After she drives Rakka out, Reki seems to have an internal conflict. A younger version of her seems to mirror the source of her conflict in my eyes. Ok, that made perfect sense to me.

Rakka reenters the room to save Reki, who seems to be reliving her nightmarish dream. But Rakka seems to be experiencing it too? I could see this as metaphoric as well but it seems way too elaborate, especially when the younger Reki appears to physically hold Rakka back in her tracks.

And if they actually experienced this scene in the way we saw it, it really doesn't make any sense. There was no magical dream briefcase from Inception to lead us to this climax. It just sort of spontaneously happened.

Reki finally overcomes her denial and calls for Rakka's help, and the nightmare apparently shatters. It seems that both of them have "woken up," but the nightmare continues as the train seems to burst from the painting towards Reki. Rakka classically pushes Rakka out of harm's way, and the nightmare finally ends. A wonderful message is delivered here: Reki needs to help herself before she can be helped by Rakka. But the gappy logic of this climax alienated me and kept me from enjoying the conclusion as much as I should.

So what actually happened in this scene?

Spoiler:

It's a fair question, but I don't think there's a clear answer. I would point out, though, that no one actually knows what happens when a haibane "leaves the nest". It always happens when no one else is around.

Conversely, I think it's fair to assume that no one actually knows how a haibane falls permanently into sin. The people they leave behind know only that their cherished friend is gone for good. It's more than likely that each haibane's moment of transcendence is unique to herself, mirroring her own state of mind and her own experience of a previous life and her life in Glie.

In other words, Reki's final nightmare is just as it was, the same image that had haunted her ever since she became a haibane. Yes, it's somewhat miraculous that it should take physical form but, then again, I can think we can safely say that Glie is not your normal town either, so the "miracle" may not actually be that miraculous in this context.

Reki had tried her whole life as a haibane to run away from the heavy sense of guilt resulting from her suicide but, in the end, she lost all hope, so her nightmare literally became real again, to the extent that Rakka herself got sucked into it.

Here's a further thought: It's more than possible that Rakka was able to enter Reki's nightmare because Reki subconsciously allowed it. Even in her final moments, Reki wanted Rakka to be save her. The younger Reki was the physical manifestation of Reki's guilt, the part of her that sought punishment, and that was why it sought to stop Rakka from saving Reki.

The underlying point is that every attempted suicide is a cry for help, no matter how determined the person appears to want to kill himself or herself. Even in the depths of her darkest despair, Reki wanted to believe that someone would come for her. By chance or by fate, Rakka would be that person, the bird who saves Reki.

I like to think Kuramori also had a part to play. The way the wind blew, drawing Rakka's attention to Kuramori's potrait and, more importantly, to Reki's journal — it's far too miraculous to be mere coincidence, I feel.

Reki was loved. She just had to love herself first before she could accept other people's love.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Spoiler:

It's a fair question, but I don't think there's a clear answer. I would point out, though, that no one actually knows what happens when a haibane "leaves the nest". It always happens when no one else is around.

Conversely, I think it's fair to assume that no one actually knows how a haibane falls permanently into sin. The people they leave behind know only that their cherished friend is gone for good. It's more than likely that each haibane's moment of transcendence is unique to herself, mirroring her own state of mind and her own experience of a previous life and her life in Glie.

In other words, Reki's final nightmare is just as it was, the same image that had haunted her ever since she became a haibane. Yes, it's somewhat miraculous that it should take physical form but, then again, I can think we can safely say that Glie is not your normal town either, so the "miracle" may not actually be that miraculous in this context.

Reki had tried her whole life as a haibane to run away from the heavy sense of guilt resulting from her suicide but, in the end, she lost all hope, so her nightmare literally became real again, to the extent that Rakka herself got sucked into it.

Here's a further thought: It's more than possible that Rakka was able to enter Reki's nightmare because Reki subconsciously allowed it. Even in her final moments, Reki wanted Rakka to be save her. The younger Reki was the physical manifestation of Reki's guilt, the part of her that sought punishment, and that was why it sought to stop Rakka from saving Reki.

The underlying point is that every attempted suicide is a cry for help, no matter how determined the person appears to want to kill himself or herself. Even in the depths of her darkest despair, Reki wanted to believe that someone would come for her. By chance or by fate, Rakka would be that person, the bird who saves Reki.

I like to think Kuramori also had a part to play. The way the wind blew, drawing Rakka's attention to Kuramori's potrait and, more importantly, to Reki's journal — it's far too miraculous to be mere coincidence, I feel.

Reki was loved. She just had to love herself first before she could accept other people's love.

Spoiler for :

It's evident that we share a lot of similarities in interpreting the finale. Knowing how Haibane Renmei takes place in a fantasy world with its own type of logic, it's not a stretch at all to include scenes like the climax. Your idea of the dream taking a physical form (and, to an extent, including additional people like Rakka) can be quite logical within the world of Glie.

I still think the nightmare sequence came too suddenly without a proper build up or foreshadowing. To me it just throws itself at the viewers and expects them to accept it immediately. Although I must emphasize that the scene alone was absolutely awesome and well done.

Thanks a lot for your ideas! I can honestly say that I appreciate the ending a lot more now. This is definitely a series that I will watch again, and I feel that I'll enjoy it even more on a second go.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Tempester

Spoiler for :

I still think the nightmare sequence came too suddenly without a proper build up or foreshadowing. To me it just throws itself at the viewers and expects them to accept it immediately. Although I must emphasize that the scene alone was absolutely awesome and well done.

Spoiler:

Obviously, I can't argue for or against the way you felt about the build-up to Reki's revelation. That's purely a matter of subjective opinion. Plenty of people, for example, didn't like Haibane Renmei because of its much slower first-half, but I had no problem with it. In fact, I loved the way it shed light on the nature of haibane and Glie, and provided necessary background that explains much of Reki and Rakka's later actions.

I feel that there had been plenty of foreshadowing about Reki's dream. Right about the time of Kuu's departure, we caught the first glimpse of Reki's brooding loneliness. During the height of Rakka's own experience of being sin-bound, we also got the first sight of Reki's paintings, the ones that portrayed fractured images of her nightmare. Then, most importantly, the episode that revealed Reki and Nemu's backstory, and how Kuramori almost saved Reki.

From those clues, it was already possible to join several dots that partially explained Reki's predicament. I felt the pacing was just about right, allowing the true depth of Reki's despair to generate a great deal of pathos for the series' finale. It provided the climax and catharsis that allowed the story to end with a fitting bang.

By and by, do visit the Old Home Bulletin Board if you have further questions. It's by far the best forum for Haibane Renmei that I know of.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Spoiler:

Obviously, I can't argue for or against the way you felt about the build-up to Reki's revelation. That's purely a matter of subjective opinion. Plenty of people, for example, didn't like Haibane Renmei because of its much slower first-half, but I had no problem with it. In fact, I loved the way it shed light on the nature of haibane and Glie, and provided necessary background that explains much of Reki and Rakka's later actions.

I feel that there had been plenty of foreshadowing about Reki's dream. Right about the time of Kuu's departure, we caught the first glimpse of Reki's brooding loneliness. During the height of Rakka's own experience of being sin-bound, we also got the first sight of Reki's paintings, the ones that portrayed fractured images of her nightmare. Then, most importantly, the episode that revealed Reki and Nemu's backstory, and how Kuramori almost saved Reki.

From those clues, it was already possible to join several dots that partially explained Reki's predicament. I felt the pacing was just about right, allowing the true depth of Reki's despair to generate a great deal of pathos for the series' finale. It provided the climax and catharsis that allowed the story to end with a fitting bang.

By and by, do visit the Old Home Bulletin Board if you have further questions. It's by far the best forum for Haibane Renmei that I know of.

Spoiler:

I don't think Tempester's arguing the lack of build up in regards to Reki's character and the darkness within her. I believe he means the lack of build up/foreshadowing concerning the possibility of a nightmare physically manifesting itself in their real world.

Which I can understand, though I never even thought about such a thing. It's a fantasy setting that is likely a portrayal of the author's imagining of an afterlife, so I can easily accept that much regardless of how suddenly it came about.

The fact that it led to the mesmerizing and impactful scene in anime history helps too.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Spoiler:

Obviously, I can't argue for or against the way you felt about the build-up to Reki's revelation. That's purely a matter of subjective opinion. Plenty of people, for example, didn't like Haibane Renmei because of its much slower first-half, but I had no problem with it. In fact, I loved the way it shed light on the nature of haibane and Glie, and provided necessary background that explains much of Reki and Rakka's later actions.

Spoiler:

Being a seasoned slice-of-life fan probably helps to get the most enjoyment from the first 4-5 episodes. Being a fan of Aria and Tamayura, I actually liked those episodes, and their presence helped to magnify the aching drama and depression that highlighted later episodes. Although the departure in episode 6 was somewhat expected from me (after watching Angel Beats), the ensuing drama was like a brick hitting the face.

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

By and by, do visit the Old Home Bulletin Board if you have further questions. It's by far the best forum for Haibane Renmei that I know of.

Wow, this is a treasure trove of discussion! Thanks once more.

[FireChick]

This news is kinda old, but nobody mentioned it so I'm gonna mention it. Haibane Renmei, along with a bunch of other titles, got saved by FUNimation! Here's the ANN link for proof!

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...ion-moyashimon

Now WHEN the heck are they gonna release it!?

[Vicious108]

Well, I already have the MVM Films editions, so I can't say I'm that thrilled.

I do wonder if Funi is gonna make a new English dub for it. The original one was pretty bad, so it'd probably be a good thing if they did.

[FireChick]

I do wonder if Funi is gonna make a new English dub for it. The original one was pretty bad, so it'd probably be a good thing if they did.

No. I don't think they'll redub it. In fact, a lot of Geneon re-releases they saved didn't get redubbed. That'd cost a bit too much money.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by FireChick

Now WHEN the heck are they gonna release it!?

The Japanese Blu-ray version came out in July 2010, maybe the delay is so they can pick that up.

[Vicious108]

Blu-ray, huh? Well depending on how good the image quality is, I might have to check out Funi's release after all.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Blu-ray, huh? Well depending on how good the image quality is, I might have to check out Funi's release after all.

That's pure speculation on my part, but yeah it would be nice if they did it. There's some discussion of image quality here.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Simon

That's pure speculation on my part, but yeah it would be nice if they did it. There's some discussion of image quality here.

Yeah let's hope your speculation turns out to be the truth then.

As for the image quality... the backgrounds do seem a lot clearer and much less blurry, but I'm not sure about the characters. They feel... warmer in the DVD version.

The box itself looks damn beautiful too.

[Soliloquy]

Super exciting news

Funimation to re-release Haibane Renmei DVD

Best f'king day ever. It was a shame that I never found it anywhere except Amazon.

[FireChick]

THANK GOD!!! I've been waiting for two years for this!

[gsilver]

I really wish it were Blu-Ray, as I have the old DVDs, but it's good that it's going to be back in print one way or another.

[Chiaki_chan]

A beautiful anime and I admit that I cried watching the last episode