Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Rah]

The part where he said that he doesn't have money to support a girl is total BS. They are 16 year old kids still attending school. What exactly would he need to 'support'? Ayumu is backed by her family, like any normal kid, and Hayate is backed by Nagi, though I don't know if he could still stay by her side if he chose to go with Ayumu. If Nagi kicked him out, he could pay the debt by working elsewhere, or perhaps she wouldn't mind him not having to pay anymore. That's her lunch money anyway.

How about he gets cloned? A tormented Hayate for everyone! Or even better, a harem end. They have enough money for a life time, so all they need to do is individually accept that they aren't the only ones in his heart, and be content with that. Then they can compete with each other when they have children. Hahahah it's perfect!

What seedy looking kids! AHAhAHAHahHAhah!!

[Mentar]

The point Used Can is making is a good one, though. Ignore the fanbase at your own peril. Ask Kobayashi Jin (School Rumble)

Besides, I'm 100% sure that even though Hata might have sketched out the rough storyline in various forms (he mentioned 5, in case he was forced to end the series), you can consider it highly unlikely that he planned to give a character that entered in tankoubon 4 (!!) such a hugely prominent role. Hina was developed because she "worked", because Hata knew he had struck gold when she took the popularity ratings in a storm. Hata even conceded that this came completely unexpected to him.

Characters become popular because the story is doing well with them. They don't do well in the story because anyone decided that they're supposed to be popular. And so, the Utena pun-clone developed into THE central female character aside of Nagi. That wasn't decided when the show started.

The maximum damage I can see Hayate deal is tell her that right now he feels like he can't go out with her due to his duties. But I doubt that it will come this far. He'll be flabbergasted enough should it really happen (I don't see it at the moment) and leave the situation unresolved. The Hina question will not be solved in 238, no matter in which direction.

[IndoViking]

^
I agree. I just hope *IF* Hata-sensei does choose a Hina-ending as HnG's ending, it wouldn't look too forced (or at least not visible to us readers as "forced"), just because of the fans.

[xellos2099]

I think Hina situation is a bit different from Hamster. Back in the chapter they are asked to see movie together it is hinted Hina and Hayate share a sense of mutual attraction to each other.

[bebichocpha]

Just worry about IF chap 238 have ending like chap 164 ( one of them confess while the train coming T_T ).

Just read on MH chap 238 scans by yonienkal. Good job ! Good reddraw ! :d

[qwertyman]

Originally Posted by Rah

The part where he said that he doesn't have money to support a girl is total BS. They are 16 year old kids still attending school. What exactly would he need to 'support'? Ayumu is backed by her family, like any normal kid, and Hayate is backed by Nagi, though I don't know if he could still stay by her side if he chose to go with Ayumu. If Nagi kicked him out, he could pay the debt by working elsewhere, or perhaps she wouldn't mind him not having to pay anymore. That's her lunch money anyway.

Stupid or not, he earnestly believes in it. The point is that it has always been a major reason for him rejecting Ayumu.

[leoblack9]

What I've wondered about this chapter is what's Nagi's reason for allowing Hina to have a date with Hayate, and not allowing Ayumu with a reason that she might attack him? Too shallow reasons, and I noticed that she noticed Hayate's depression lately, and have stood silent about it.

Does Nagi know about Athena and her relation with Hayate and Hina? Seems to be coincidental though.

[Mentar]

I think it's because according to Maria, there's no chance in hell that a "super-cute and all-around great girl like Hinagiku could fall for Hayate". I mean, it IS remarkable. Hina has always been Nagi's fear in the past, because she knows that she "can never win against Hinagiku". But I guess that Nagi does feel that she/Hayate need to thank Hina for saving them in the beachball match, and Hina just isn't on her threat radar about stealing Hayate away. However, should she ever find out the truth, she'd probably panic.

[Teleutao]

It's seems I missed out on a debate here.

I'd have to say that Used Can's arguments have a little more weight. Hayate almost certainly will never end up with Nagi romantically and I hope that he is freed from his debt in the end. I mean seriously, after all the stuff he's had to put up with the least he deserves is freedom to pursue a girl and his own dreams by the end.

And if you want to see how popularity can change a character, look no further than Code Geass. Jeremiah Gottwald was supposed to die after his first appearance, which portrayed him as a sadistic, racist bastard that reveled in shooting up harmless civilians. Yet he still became extremely popular because he was just so over-the-top that they not only didn't kill him but kept bringing him back with stronger weapons and in the end he joined Lelouch after revealing some kind of back story. He also got the happiest ending of everyone in the epilogue...and he was only meant to be a one-shot character.

Hinagiku is very much like that, she's a complete parody sue just like Hayate but to more ridiculous proportions. Since her first appearance she's become almost essential to the story, if Hayate needs help he has to see either Maria, Hinagiku, or occasionally Isumi. Also bare in mind that only student council members are allowed up in the student council room in the clock tower...Hayate practically lives there and even hides extra uniforms there and is often there to see Hinagiku. I think her popularity gives her more thna a fair shot at ending up with him.

Still, for Chapter 238 I see that it would be odd to actually resolve everything. If Hina does manage to confess Hayate will probably mention that he does like her but that he cannot date her right now. This can also segue perfectly into a conversation about Athena as Hayate wants to ask and Hina knows about what Athena told him in the past about having a girlfriend. Maybe their relationship dynamic could change a bit, with Hina being able to show a slightly more feminine side and trying to persuade Hayate that it's okay if he dates now. It'd at least be interesting to see how that would play out, especially once everyone else finds out.

[qwertyman]

Originally Posted by Teleutao

I'd have to say that Used Can's arguments have a little more weight. Hayate almost certainly will never end up with Nagi romantically and I hope that he is freed from his debt in the end. I mean seriously, after all the stuff he's had to put up with the least he deserves is freedom to pursue a girl and his own dreams by the end.

Again, I would not be surprised if Hayate "ends" up with Nagi in a non-romantic relationship, but just as a butler-mistress duo. Hayate ends quite a few chapters with the cheesy "I will protect you forever" type line, so he does have a good chance ending the series that way, just as much as he has a chance of ending with anyone else romantically.

Originally Posted by Teleutao

And if you want to see how popularity can change a character, look no further than Code Geass. Jeremiah Gottwald was supposed to die after his first appearance, which portrayed him as a sadistic, racist bastard that reveled in shooting up harmless civilians. Yet he still became extremely popular because he was just so over-the-top that they not only didn't kill him but kept bringing him back with stronger weapons and in the end he joined Lelouch after revealing some kind of back story. He also got the happiest ending of everyone in the epilogue...and he was only meant to be a one-shot character.

So? So some authors/directors like to feed to their popularity; that doesn't mean they should, and it doesn't mean that the story turns out better when they do. From what other's have said, Hata prepared several ending points along the line just in case he had to end the manga prematurely. I'm pretty sure that if he's that dedicated to make a series end on a reasonable note, plot-wise, then I'd like to hope that he's reasonable enough not to cater so much to the fanbase that he ends the series with a happy end just for them. I'm not sure many other mangaka are always prepared for their series ending abruptly (see Hatsukoi Limited).

Originally Posted by Teleutao

Hinagiku is very much like that, she's a complete parody sue just like Hayate but to more ridiculous proportions. Since her first appearance she's become almost essential to the story, if Hayate needs help he has to see either Maria, Hinagiku, or occasionally Isumi. Also bare in mind that only student council members are allowed up in the student council room in the clock tower...Hayate practically lives there and even hides extra uniforms there and is often there to see Hinagiku. I think her popularity gives her more thna a fair shot at ending up with him.

Seeking help and getting it are two different things. He seeks help from Maria since she has a huge mature sense to her. He seeks help from Hinagiku because she's so dependable. He seeks help from Isumi because no one else can do what she does when it comes to spirits.

And yet, how many times does he actually get help from Hinagiku when he approaches her? During the Butler Trial or whatever it was called, he ran away from her before securing her help. Although she did come in later, ultimately, she was of no real use other than buying Hayate time for him to go into uber mode (it was mostly Isumi who helped during that bit, if you ask me).

Most of the times Hina has helped him were when he never asked for the help. And even then, the same thing could be said for Ayumu; Ayumu also has helped Hayate quite a bit, possibly more depending on how you value some of things Ayumu and Hina have done for him (but keep in mind that Ayumu stopped his stupid stone from being broken, that's quite a big deal). Ayumu is just as helpful, and never gets mad at Hayate, and yet she's still facing a dead end.

[Serffix]

Originally Posted by qwertyman

And yet, how many times does he actually get help from Hinagiku when he approaches her? During the Butler Trial or whatever it was called, he ran away from her before securing her help. Although she did come in later, ultimately, she was of no real use other than buying Hayate time for him to go into uber mode (it was mostly Isumi who helped during that bit, if you ask me).

You seem to forget about a lot of other situations where Hina actually helped out Hayate with or without him asking. Just to name a few:

- Train ride to the hotsprings where Hina looks after Maria/Nagi (< he asked for it)
- Helping him out with picking the white day gift for Ayumu (< he asked for it)
- Protecting Nagi in that Dungeon in Greece (< asked for it)
- That volleyball match (< she could have denied to help out)
- Letting him stay at her home was just one of the few situations where he didn't ask for her help

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by qwertyman

And yet, how many times does he actually get help from Hinagiku when he approaches her? During the Butler Trial or whatever it was called, he ran away from her before securing her help. Although she did come in later, ultimately, she was of no real use other than buying Hayate time for him to go into uber mode (it was mostly Isumi who helped during that bit, if you ask me).

Letsee, during the Butler Trial Hina saved Nagi from the robot, she protected the groggy Hayate from the attack of the sister, she was the one to de-plug the attacking robot... yea, no real use, right ^_^

To answer the question: Hina has been helping him EVERY SINGLE TIME he approached her for help, and many other times when he didn't. If you make a highscore list who really got Hayate out of fixes, Hina will dominate by a bigger margin than in the popularity polls.

Most of the times Hina has helped him were when he never asked for the help. And even then, the same thing could be said for Ayumu; Ayumu also has helped Hayate quite a bit, possibly more depending on how you value some of things Ayumu and Hina have done for him (but keep in mind that Ayumu stopped his stupid stone from being broken, that's quite a big deal). Ayumu is just as helpful, and never gets mad at Hayate, and yet she's still facing a dead end.

Oh please, be real. Ayumu has a golden heart, and I really like the girl, but she doesn't have the capabilities to really impact Hayate's situation when it counts. Yes, she helped with the stone once, and several times she helped with Nagi. And that's it. Not that there's anything wrong with that, this is her role: Kind and cute "normal" girl, in a world of wackos. But not heroine league.

[qwertyman]

Originally Posted by Serffix

- Train ride to the hotsprings where Hina looks after Maria/Nagi (< he asked for it)

Honestly, to me, even Maria shouldn't have a problem sitting in the train until arriving at her destination. Hayate was definitely overreacting at that point (where he was just about to jump off the train). And she could've called Hayate for help when the train reached it's destination or whatever.

He didn't ask Hina to look after Maria and Nagi after everyone met up, Hina forced him to go with Ayumu and offered to look after Maria and Nagi. He was reluctant about it the whole way through until Hina stepped on his foot.

Originally Posted by Serffix

- Helping him out with picking the white day gift for Ayumu (< he asked for it)

Minor point; he also asked Ayumu to help look for a gift for Hina, so it keeps Ayumu and Hina on fair ground, at least. They would've gotten her one, too, if it weren't for the student council trio.

Originally Posted by Serffix

Protecting Nagi in that Dungeon in Greece (< asked for it)

He didn't ask for that necessarily. There was a fork in the road and they decided to split up. Neither of them knew who they were running towards (if they were running towards anyone). If Hayate knew who was where, he would've ran to Nagi first, not Ayumu.

Originally Posted by Serffix

- That volleyball match (< she could have denied to help out)

The way I see it, if anyone but Nagi was chosen for that, Hayate wouldn't have minded it so much since he could've easily have made up for both him and his partner in the match. This is Hayate we're talking about, after all, who can win anything he wants to win when absurd things are going down. Gilbert picking Hina was basically just insurance for a victory for Hayate (or was supposed to be, anyway).

Originally Posted by Serffix

- Letting him stay at her home was just one of the few situations where he didn't ask for her help

The thing is, if it was Ayumu who found Hayate instead of Hina, then it would've been Hayate at Ayumu's house (again). And it could've been possible that if Hina didn't think Ayumu & Hayate were going out, that she wouldn't have offered to keep him over. Hina just gets super lucky with these things.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Letsee, during the Butler Trial Hina saved Nagi from the robot, she protected the groggy Hayate from the attack of the sister, she was the one to de-plug the attacking robot... yea, no real use, right ^_^

I'll give you the robot bit (I actually forgot about that), but de-plugging the robot? Because the robot didn't start up after that anyway. And it could've been anyone to have noticed the plug, not just Hina. It just happened to be her.

As for protecting him from Fortesia, that wouldn't have mattered either way. If Hayate got beat up a bit more the end result would've been the same; Maijin Yukiji would've came in and knocked Fortesia down anyway.

Originally Posted by Mentar

To answer the question: Hina has been helping him EVERY SINGLE TIME he approached her for help, and many other times when he didn't. If you make a highscore list who really got Hayate out of fixes, Hina will dominate by a bigger margin than in the popularity polls.

And Ayumu helps Hayate even when he doesn't ask for her help. I'd say that says a lot more about how Hayate feels (or rather, should) about Ayumu than Hina.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Oh please, be real. Ayumu has a golden heart, and I really like the girl, but she doesn't have the capabilities to really impact Hayate's situation when it counts. Yes, she helped with the stone once, and several times she helped with Nagi. And that's it. Not that there's anything wrong with that, this is her role: Kind and cute "normal" girl, in a world of wackos. But not heroine league.

Sure she does. Aside from battle situations (which don't occur all that much), she could be a lot more use if Hina didn't always get the chance first. In fact, the latest development is the byproduct of her impacting Hina. Without Ayumu, at the least, it would've taken much longer for Hina to build up the guts to do what she's (supposedly) about to do. So even indirectly she's changing Hayate's life around.

Well, she could be useful during battles if Isumi gave Ayumu some kind of hamster ray.

[Mentar]

Well if you start arguing fantasies like "if it had been different, Ayumu would have been even more awesome", then there's really no point continuing the discussion ^_^;

In the meantime, waiting for c238 spoilers with bated breath...

[Serffix]

We started this discussion with your viewpoint being "Hayate rarely ever gets actual help from Hina". In those examples I gave, it was obvious that Hayate had a problem in those specific situations and that Hina helped him out with it. That's all there's pretty much to it.

Originally Posted by qwertyman

And Ayumu helps Hayate even when he doesn't ask for her help. I'd say that says a lot more about how Hayate feels (or rather, should) about Ayumu than Hina.

Shouldn't this be the other way around as in showing how strongly Ayumu feels about Hayate?
I think both Hina and Ayumu would try to help out Hayate any way they could with or without being asked so they're pretty much on equal footing on that aspect for me.

Originally Posted by qwertyman

Well, she could be useful during battles if Isumi gave Ayumu some kind of hamster ray.

Would be cool, but that's not Ayumu's role in the story. Being ordinary is Ayumu's charm and I prefer seeing her deal with things like normal people would.

[Rah]

Helping him out amounts to nothing in the end. He wont just start loving her, or anyone else for that matter, just because they helped him out. Even if it were for a million times, that's what friends are for, as long as he can help in return or somehow pay them back. In this scenario he doesn't have to pay back all that much, because the girls love him and are happy with just helping him, hoping that in the end he will choose them.

Well that's merely a guess..

Anyway, the end is already set in stone, even if he has to end the manga prematurely. I think he's just using and will continue to use the popularity of some girls to keep it up from being canceled. I don't know what's the status of the manga at the moment, or what are the odds of it actually getting canceled, but with the anime adaption it shouldn't just end like that. Hmmm, but they do have enough material for the third season...

Ah, well.. who knows? I'm ok with whatever choices he makes, as long as it's entertaining. Lets say that the manga is nowhere close to being canceled, or ending. If that's the case then it can continue for another 200 chapters. With all the still unresolved matters it could easily go that far.

We can expect spoilers already tomorrow, right? I wonder if my predictions come true. Hehehe, now I'm actually rooting for a Nagi x Ayumu x Hina end. Hina will be the man of the house. Ayumu is the wife, and Nagi is their lovely daughter.

Heheheh *zones out to fantasy land*

[primuler]

Originally Posted by Rah

Helping him out amounts to nothing in the end. He wont just start loving her, or anyone else for that matter, just because they helped him out. Even if it were for a million times, that's what friends are for, as long as he can help in return or somehow pay them back. In this scenario he doesn't have to pay back all that much, because the girls love him and are happy with just helping him, hoping that in the end he will choose them.

Well that's merely a guess..

Anyway, the end is already set in stone, even if he has to end the manga prematurely. I think he's just using and will continue to use the popularity of some girls to keep it up from being canceled. I don't know what's the status of the manga at the moment, or what are the odds of it actually getting canceled, but with the anime adaption it shouldn't just end like that. Hmmm, but they do have enough material for the third season...

Ah, well.. who knows? I'm ok with whatever choices he makes, as long as it's entertaining. Lets say that the manga is nowhere close to being canceled, or ending. If that's the case then it can continue for another 200 chapters. With all the still unresolved matters it could easily go that far.

We can expect spoilers already tomorrow, right? I wonder if my predictions come true. Hehehe, now I'm actually rooting for a Nagi x Ayumu x Hina end. Hina will be the man of the house. Ayumu is the wife, and Nagi is their lovely daughter.

Heheheh *zones out to fantasy land*

Nope. Ayumu will be kind daddy who has almost no control over her *coughs* daughter and Hina will be mom who can't just win daddy although she's perfect in many ways and Nagi will be a child who is always jealous of her mom.


Hata commented that Ayumu was like a good man you know =P (when she persuaded Sister to hand over the stone).

[GDB]

So, what's that make Miki? The pool boy?

[Serffix]

Spoiler for Chapter 238:

Spoilers are out at Naver's blog for ch 238, no pics though. The title of the chapter is "Words cannot express" (not 100% sure of translation) It seems like Hina is trying to confess, but her words won't reach Hayate.

[Rah]

Originally Posted by primuler

Nope. Ayumu will be kind daddy who has almost no control over her *coughs* daughter and Hina will be mom who can't just win daddy although she's perfect in many ways and Nagi will be a child who is always jealous of her mom.


Hata commented that Ayumu was like a good man you know =P (when she persuaded Sister to hand over the stone).

Ouch! Poor Ayumu. But then again, Hina is adored by lots of girls at Hakuo. She even gives White Day chocolates. WHO'S THE MAN NOW!? Hehe.

Would be fun if it came true. Or perhaps they could all somehow get amnesia and play those roles.

Originally Posted by GDB

So, what's that make Miki? The pool boy?

Well, sadly she's just a minor character. Would be cool if she was given the opportunity to confess to Hina, even if knowing that she's going to be rejected. It would still put her at peace, rather than holding on a thin strand of hope.

Like for example.... Hina confesses and is rejected by Hayate. She is depressed and Miki takes the opportunity to confess. Hina probably wouldn't take her seriously and would just thank her for trying to cheer her up or something. DAMN THAT SOMEHOW REALLY PISSES ME OFF!

Oh well......

I wish I had a rocking chair now. I'm hyper with anticipation for the new spoilers.

Originally Posted by Serffix

Spoiler for Chapter 238:

Spoilers are out at Naver's blog for ch 238, no pics though. The title of the chapter is "Words cannot express" (not 100% sure of translation) It seems like Hina is trying to confess, but her words won't reach Hayate.

But I can't read moonrunes!

Ahhh, this is killing me. It sounds like another cliffhanger if she can't confess!