Comic Party Revolution - 01 By Miyuki-Fansubs

[getfresh]

I'd just like to know peoples opinions on the Opening and ending karaoke FX. Tell why you liked or disliked it, and what you think I should have done different or what stood out in your opinion.

thanks

[ChocoEd]

Well, ordinarily I wouldn't criticize, but since you asked...

As a general concept, I liked the bubble-highlight effect in the opening, but it was probably a bit too large on the romaji lyrics: the smaller, more subtle size on the kana lyrics was nicer. Also, the highlight had the bad effect of, for the purposes of singing along, making the current syllable the least visible in the line, since the dark outlines around the characters disappeared while it was highlighted.

I liked the ED effects better... the subtle glow was very nice, although again it had the unintended consequence of making the current syllable the least legible. In addition, something is making the rightmost characters (prior to the highlight) overlap their outlines rather than being outlined as a group. I suspect that's something to do with drawing the text as separate units instead of one large block which gets an overall outline, as is the case once the highlight has passed it by -- that may not be something you can easily fix.

So, overall, a good effort and technically quite impressive. The biggest thing I would suggest is to pay more attention to the visibility of the highlighted syllable.

[getfresh]

I knew about the visability issue, but I liked the FX so I went with it. I've done around 50 or more kars now and I'm starting to run outa FX with SSA based scripting. I know some ppl would say go to AE but I dislike AE's way it makes things look.

Thanks for bring up the visiability issue though cause I didn't feel it was that big of a prob, but you still saw it as one from a non-biased standpoint. I have yet to see the offical release, so I don't know if the kar got blured more. My version is pretty crisp and the reability is very good IMO. If possible I'd like you to look at that version and see if It is easier to read so I can tell if it was due to encode, or my error.

Either way, next time I'll run some more alpha out on the edges and layer a second level on to bring out the lines more. Originally I was going to do that FX with a embrosed 3D look, but that would have taken quite abit longer and we were eager to release the epi cause we(M-F staff) like this series. I hope to get more feedback from others on this ^^

thanks again
getfresh

[ChocoEd]

Originally Posted by getfresh

Thanks for bring up the visiability issue though cause I didn't feel it was that big of a prob, but you still saw it as one from a non-biased standpoint. I have yet to see the offical release, so I don't know if the kar got blured more. My version is pretty crisp and the reability is very good IMO. If possible I'd like you to look at that version and see if It is easier to read so I can tell if it was due to encode, or my error.

No, I didn't notice any blurring, it was just the color contrast I meant: the highlighted syllable ends up being outline-less white text on a background bubble of near-white. And it isn't that big of a problem, just something that struck me as not quite optimal.

Though speaking of the encode, for some reason the aspect ratio seems to have been set at 1.21:1 instead of the normal 640x480 1.33:1. I have no idea why.

[Enragin_Angel]

It sucks.



Just kidding heh. Very creative, but hard to read at times. Especially the ED. Dark background with transparent primary and black borders makes it hard to read. White background, syllables flashing white makes it hard to read. And ChocoEd already described the problem with the OP. Looks nice, but I would hardly call it karaoke if you can't read it while singing along

[getfresh]

That is weird cause the raw is 640x480... Hey Angel, make me a clip of the op and ed and send to me on irc so i can see what it looks like compared to the ver i have

[getfresh]

Ok its confirmed. It was the encoders fault. The romaji is using the wrong font all together. The font I had set and sent out had an inner line of color making it completely readable. If I could upload the screen caps here I would so you can see what the kar is supposs to look like.

Needless to say I'm not pleased about this, and I apologize to everyone who dl'd this epi and was bothered by this error. I must go now and hurt someone >.<

[GipFace]

So much for quality control ...

[getfresh]

Gipface, are you bitter or something? All I've ever seen you post are snide remarks. It's like you think you are perfect or something. All I wanted was feedback on something new I tried with the bord+alpha in transformations, and to find out if the FX still left the kar . I didn't start a thread so you could act like an asshole. I know I you are probably itching to write a reply now in your defense. I have a feeling it will be nothing more then you correcting my grammaticism, quoting something I wrote before, or some arguments on how I'm wrong and you are always right. If that’s so, start a whole new thread just about that, and post your feelings there. If you have something to say about the karaoke FX, and what your opinion on how they were presented feel free. Otherwise, give it a rest for once...

[zalas]

Originally Posted by getfresh

Gipface, are you bitter or something? All I've ever seen you post are snide remarks. It's like you think you are perfect or something. All I wanted was feedback on something new I tried with the bord+alpha in transformations, and to find out if the FX still left the kar . I didn't start a thread so you could act like an asshole. I know I you are probably itching to write a reply now in your defense. I have a feeling it will be nothing more then you correcting my grammaticism, quoting something I wrote before, or some arguments on how I'm wrong and you are always right. If that’s so, start a whole new thread just about that, and post your feelings there. If you have something to say about the karaoke FX, and what your opinion on how they were presented feel free. Otherwise, give it a rest for once...

I think his reply was intended to say that he doesn't value karaoke FX and whatnot over quality control. It's like... where do you want to spend that time? Checking things out to make sure something comes out as you intended and has correct translations, etc, or spend more time making your episode look "snazzy," at the cost of accuracy?
In software, it's analogous to: do you want more features at the cost of stability? or vice versa? Different people have different requirements/needs.

[Jawa]

Originally Posted by zalas

where do you want to spend that time? Checking things out to make sure something comes out as you intended and has correct translations, etc, or spend more time making your episode look "snazzy," at the cost of accuracy?

While the encoder probably has little to do with quality checking the translation, and maybe doesn't even speak Japanese, your general idea is what counts.

Personally, snazzy effects in the OP don't do much of anything to make the series more enjoyable for me. What I care about most is a legible font and a good translation. I like your font, and translation notes are always a bonus (I didn't watch the whole thing, just the first five minutes, but I saw two types of translation notes: the intro screens, and the text along the top) so you get two thumbs up here.

The only really functionally positive text effects I can think of are when a translation of a sign floats by as the camera pans across it, and when the color of the subtitles corresponds to a particular character speaking (like in Bottle Fairy). Everything else is just flash that doesn't actually enhance (and can sometimes even detract from) my viewing experience.

Of course, this doesn't mean there aren't people out there who really enjoy flashy karaoke, but I'm sure they also appreciate an accurate translation and helpful notes. My point is that making the karaoke look cool should not be the primary concern.

[rayearth]

Originally Posted by Jawa

I like your font, and translation notes are always a bonus (I didn't watch the whole thing, just the first five minutes, but I saw two types of translation notes: the intro screens, and the text along the top) so you get two thumbs up here.

Ah, now I know for sure some people actually like seeing all those notes - I keep getting told I write too many notes in my scripts :P I still remember someone telling me after watching the promo video for Comic Party Revolution that "it's starting to become a worrying trend that we're having a minute long intro screen for a promo vid that's only a little over 2 minutes" :P

[GipFace]

getfresh writes:
GipFace, are you bitter or something? All I've ever seen you post are snide remarks. ... All I wanted was feedback. ... I didn't start a thread so you could act like an asshole. I know you are probably itching to write a reply [and] it will be nothing more then you correcting my grammaticism, quoting something I wrote before, or some arguments on how ... you are always right. If you have something to say about the karaoke FX, ... feel free. Otherwise, give it a rest ...

How wrong you are. I just find it ironic that you made your own thread about yourself, asking for feedback on your own work instead of waiting for the feedback to come to you. Then you start blaming others when your kara didn't work out as expected. Instead of a simple "sorry, it won't happen again", you say it's the "encoder's fault" and that you must "hurt someone" (the encoder, I presume).

zalas hit it on the nail about how my irony proved a point, so I won't dwell on that.

But what I do find wrong is how people ask for typeset/kara help on this board and you reply with a bunch of complicated ASS code, then tell people to read the "ass-specs.doc" as if it's some kind of end-all god manual, thinking they'll understand the dull and brief explanations. It's happened a number of times. Next time, explain to us "ungrateful leechers" what your code is all about (and about undocumented bugs such as the \3c style absence), eh? If you don't want snide replies, don't make snide replies yourself.

Oh, and I never argue about someone's grammar in a post ... that's the most pitiful rebuttal anyone can make.

You wanted feedback on the kara itself? Okay. Besides my personal quip about how kara lines show up the moment the first syllable is said (so you can't sing on cue, but it really doesn't matter), it's one of the best "level 3" karas I have seen in a long while. And I sincerely mean that. Good job. XD

Level 3 for life nyaaa~~~~

[lordwu]

Just a comment on the "Get customer Hoihoi" plan in the episode. There is a comic on Dengeki-daioh called "Hoihoi-san" which is about a mini-robot that can get rid of the house pests since all the pesticides are ineffective against the evolved pests. The name of the mini-robot is called "Hoihoi-san". There's even a PS2 game out based on the comic. Since the plan is derived from the light-attracting nature of the insects, I think there might be a connection between the name of the plan and the comic.

[rayearth]

Originally Posted by lordwu

Just a comment on the "Get customer Hoihoi" plan in the episode. There is a comic on Dengeki-daioh called "Hoihoi-san" which is about a mini-robot that can get rid of the house pests since all the pesticides are ineffective against the evolved pests. The name of the mini-robot is called "Hoihoi-san". There's even a PS2 game out based on the comic. Since the plan is derived from the light-attracting nature of the insects, I think there might be a connection between the name of the plan and the comic.

Ah, now that you mention it, yes, I think that's the connection. I remember reading about the Hoihoi game before, but I guess it didn't make an impact enough for me to remember it when I was translating Comic Party :P

[getfresh]

GipFace, my reply was to say that if its about the readability of the font then don't bother. It wasn't part of my original scripting, so I won't know if its due totally to the font or to myself. And blaming the encoder was me busting our encoders chops cause he is also a typesetter, and we are always messing with one another. I thought your remark was just a flame post trying to start some fight. We have both had not so good interactions on quite a few past issues. I understand the importance of QC over Kar FX and agree with that opinion. That’s why I apologized for the failure of the group as a whole to catch and correct the mistake.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jawa
I like your font, and translation notes are always a bonus (I didn't watch the whole thing, just the first five minutes, but I saw two types of translation notes: the intro screens, and the text along the top) so you get two thumbs up here.
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Jawa, thank Sojiro and Rayearth for that. I only worked on the OP/ED karaoke to lighten the work load for Sojiro since I was free at the time and he has done the same for me. Sojiro did the credits, dialogue, and splash[intro note screens] typesetting, well rayearth wrote the notes from his vast knowledge of H-game animes ^^. Rayearth was also trans as I'm sure you know.


GipFace give me a break about the \3c incident already. It was a mistake I made when changing a style mod within that FX with a text editors replace - <source text> with - <new text> and failed to completely remove that mod. I admit I farked up there. It happens sometimes when working to closely on something that requires the involved parties to be creative. Most ppl I'm sure will agree that being involved first hand in the creation of something can cause you to be biased and obscure mistakes from your sight. Just like no parents think that their own baby could be considered ugly by anyone, yet there are ugly babies in the world. Thus an objective point of view is required. At least in my exp with things like that.

The reason I entered a bunch of complex ASS code and said read the ASS ref is cause that’s how I learned myself. I figured if someone had an example, even if its complex, they can see the commands in action. That I find to help a lot. It all depends on the type of learner you are. Some ppl need directions, others need to see an example, and then there are those who learn by trail and error. I have also in the past tried teaching ppl ASS style scripting and it's to time consuming for me to do atm.

on a diff note, thanks for your feedback on the kar and I'll take into consideration your comment about the time indexing of the transformations compared to the syllable start times. I may msg you on irc to get more detail on what your opinion is on what you feel is wrong, code/timing wise, so we don't have chat like posts that exclude others.

[suguru]

Originally Posted by ChocoEd

Though speaking of the encode, for some reason the aspect ratio seems to have been set at 1.21:1 instead of the normal 640x480 1.33:1. I have no idea why.

I first tried playing this in vlc 0.7 (I'm an OS X user) and I saw the same thing, the aspect ratio was wrong and everyone looked slightly taller/squished. I got around it with mplayer, which on OS X completely ignores whatever aspect ratio the file has, and lets you manually resize the window however you want--then I got it to look like normal 1.33:1.

Minor complaint, though, I loved the episode and thanks to Miyuki-Fansubs for doing a great job with it.

[getfresh]

Hey suguru, if your use irc I'd like to talk to you about the error, and find out if it's a prob localized to OSX, All Mac systems, Or due to something else. If its cause of MacOS then I'll research a way to make the media OSX compliant. Hope you can help me out.

Either way, thanks again for the further information!

[suguru]

Originally Posted by getfresh

Hey suguru, if your use irc I'd like to talk to you about the error, and find out if it's a prob localized to OSX, All Mac systems, Or due to something else. If its cause of MacOS then I'll research a way to make the media OSX compliant. Hope you can help me out.

Either way, thanks again for the further information!

Thanks for the offer--unfortunately, at 30 I'm too old to figure out IRC I did some checking and I think it's just a VLC bug--using VLC 0.4.6 the aspect ratio is fine (but the video doesn't play back right, doubtlessly vlc's fault) while with 0.5.3 or 0.7 the aspect ratio is squished (although video plays flawlessly). I don't know why newer versions of VLC think the aspect should be different, not sure how we could debug it--in any case, not a big deal, I can just use mplayer OSX.

If you're curious, I can email you screenshots (tried posting them on Geocities, but it balked at direct linking from here).

[getfresh]

Originally Posted by suguru

Thanks for the offer--unfortunately, at 30 I'm too old to figure out IRC I did some checking and I think it's just a VLC bug--using VLC 0.4.6 the aspect ratio is fine (but the video doesn't play back right, doubtlessly vlc's fault) while with 0.5.3 or 0.7 the aspect ratio is squished (although video plays flawlessly). I don't know why newer versions of VLC think the aspect should be different, not sure how we could debug it--in any case, not a big deal, I can just use mplayer OSX.

If you're curious, I can email you screenshots (tried posting them on Geocities, but it balked at direct linking from here).

I understand. Heres the AVI format info. It has the codecs used and such. Maybe that will help ^^

File NFO
========================================
Name
Size 231 MB (or 237,350 KB or 243,046,400 bytes)
Type OpenDML AVI

Video NFO
========================================
Duration 00:30:04 (43,260 fr)
Codec Name XviD
Codec 4CC xvid
Aspect 640x480 (1.33:1) [=4:3]
Bitrate 967 kb/s
Frames/ps 23.976

Audio NFO
========================================
Codec Name 0x0055(MP3) ID'd as MPEG-1 Layer 3
Bitrate 103 kb/s (51/ch, stereo) VBR LAME3.92
Sample Rate 44100 Hz
Interleave(I/L) 1 vid frame (42 ms), p=522 Split: No
I/L rate ratio(IMRR) 1.00
Frame Quality(FQ) 0.131 bits/pixel

Render NFO
========================================
Video Source Type 4cc: XVID
Audio Source Type MPEGLAYER3 (MP3) (0x0055)
Video Path (S) --> AVI Splitter --> ffdshow MPEG-4 Video Decoder --> (R)
Audio Path (S) --> AVI Splitter --> MPEG Layer-3 Decoder --> (R)