AnimeSuki Forums

naantje · 2004-11-01, 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

So indeed you can always find exceptions, but fact is that in most sport 30~35 years old is time for retirement and 26 is already past your prime.

This is partly true, yea physically speaking.. most of the time you're past your prime after 26. But with age comes experience, which sometimes makes up for the lack of Physical fitness. for example.. i know lots of football players who primed after 26.. Zinedine Zidane anyone ? ( He's 32 ) While your right in most cases.. you cant really use it as a waterproof argument.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-11-01, 08:21

Not that it matters now but I still insist that whether Kakashi is in his prime or not as a ninja at age 26 that age is too young to be past your prime, in most popular American sports that is. If this was like DBZ they'd just keep on getting impossibly strong as they get older with every saga until they could destroy the universe but I think Kishimoto likes to keep his charcters more down to earth. At 26 Kakashi isn't going to have a growth spurt that makes him jump in strength the way a scrawny 12 year old would grow into a robust 18 year old that certainly doesn't happen but he's still young enough to stay in his prime for about four more years and even then he can become more skilled so his age really has nothing to do with him becoming a stronger ninja if he's still young. I think Kakashi will only get slightly stronger or we'll see him use more moves in battle against opponents but he's not washed up a a character in the series. This time jump will simply level the playing field for the real main characters and the rest will remain virtually the same. I don't think Sasuke will be stronger than Itachi after the time jump but atleast be strong enough to not get beat so embarrassingly like he did last time.

swerv · 2004-11-01, 09:48

ok I decided to do some research as a poster quoted hunters "fact" that by the age of 26 we are past our physical peak.

Many websites state that we reach our physical peak at around 30, usually they say late 20's for men and early 30's for women. Unfortunately they do not source the basis for these statements, they all generally just say "it is widely accepted" or "medical research tells us...."

for example

Quote:

Before we go further, let's briefly review what the scientific and medical literature tells us about the physiology of aging. It's generally agreed that we reach our peak physiological function at about 30 years of age with a gradual decline of about 0.75 to 1% a year. This means that maximum oxygen consumption, muscle strength and power, and flexibility decrease while body fat increases. Whether you're sedentary or active, these changes occur.

source

I did find one pubmed study entitled "Peak performance and age among superathletes: track and field, swimming, baseball, tennis, and golf." but you have to be registered to order it, here's a little quote from the abstract

Quote:

For most categories of performance in baseball, the peak age of performance is equivalent to that of a long distance runner, about 28 years of age, while top tennis players reach their highest levels of performance at age 24. Golfers, in comparison, peak at about 31 years of age

source

last one because this is boring

Quote:

An 800- and 1500m male runner is most likely to run his fastest at around the age of 25. If you don't believe it, compare the ages of past and present world-record holders for these distances. For females, the peak is delayed to the age of 27. Why women differ in this regard is a mystery. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule but these are rare. In addition, having achieved an all-time best time at these ages, the athletes often continue for another decade with world-class times. Seb Coe, for example, ran 1:41.73/800 at age 24 and 1:43.52/800 at age 33. Steve Cram ran a mile in 3:46:32 aged 25, and 3:53.8 when he was 30.

The age at which a male runner is most likely to run a lifetime best for 3K and SK is 27, for females, 29. . For the 10K, it is 29 and 31, respectively.

source

So in fact those who are past their physical peak at 26 seem to be the exceptions not the rule.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-11-01, 11:46

If we take a look at all that information we can come to the conclusion that Kakashi is nearing the physical peak of the average athlete but certainly not past it at the age of 26. In 3 years he would be considered in his prime and I don't think he would get much stronger than what we see of him after that. The manga will probably show him as the same Kakashi, just a little better. The inetresting question would be how strong will Naruto and Sasuke be in 3 years.

The-Wolf-Of-Mibu · 2004-11-01, 11:59

People need to really stop all this comparing to the real world crap.

You cant gauge peak age, or point of stamina deterioration by comparing it to the real world.

Because in the real world people dont make lighting in their hands and summon giant 100 foot tall toads from the palm of their hand.

Genei Killua · 2004-11-01, 12:07

If we're talking about ninjas, and if you define a ninja's 'peak' to mean his maximum chakra capacity combined with stamina, then the mere physical peak of a ninja does not equate into his overall peak. For, as it has been stated, a physical peak once reached does not deteriorate that rapidly-- it actually only really starts deteriorating into the late 30's or 40's, which interestingly enough is when Orochimaru really started working on his immortality jutsu. Perhaps he was starting to feel the sting of old age.

So, stamina can be based off of physical peak, but chakra is from both stamina and spiritual energy. And while the stamina decreases slowly once the peak is reached, the spiritual energy could very likely continue to grow at a rate that would make up for the slight decrease in stamina. If a person were to gain spiritual experience at a very fast rate, his/her chakra would also increase at a fast rate as long as his body were not deteriorating at a fast rate.

Also, it's important to note that the stamina 'peak' we are talking about relates to a person's potential physical peak, not necessarily the person's actual peak. A fat person, for instance, who only starts working out at age 50 could end up being much better off physically at 52 than at 22.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-11-01, 12:38

Yes, Kakashi as he has stated is out of shape (as far as a conditioned ninja goes) and may need to train harder to get back into his old fighting shape, even at his age he isn't in perfect shape and still hasn't reached his prime. So as far a stamina goes kakashi won't be losing much of that for several years and he can always gain more spiritual enrgey as he trains and practices different jutsu. He's a genius and can find ways to make himself alot stronger. I don't think thats going to help him against the likes of Itachi or Orochimaru, perhaps against Kabuto and Kisame. He's definetly to deep a charcter for Kishimoto to hold back too much on, we haven't seen the last of Copy Ninja Kakashi in action.

tvoben · 2004-11-01, 13:02

Yeah, kakashi has a great potensial. He is know all over the land for his skills, Zabula had notes on him from when he training for the killer squads. Itatchi recogniced his skills.

At that fight Kakashi was quite cool, he knew what type of warrior Itatchi was and still acted cool. He was as fast as itachi in there fight, and i doubt that either of them whent in with full power. Until itachi showed him a skill he hadnt seen before. And he thought that it was enought with just a Sharingan.

I hope that we will se kakashi in a 1on1 fight against a strong enemy without having to watch his subs..

Love that Character....

Nine Devil · 2004-11-01, 15:34

Euhm mate Kakashi was getting totally owned by Itachi.

Same speed as Itachi, you make me chuckle..

wb_hicks · 2004-11-01, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvoben

Yeah, kakashi has a great potensial. He is know all over the land for his skills, Zabula had notes on him from when he training for the killer squads. Itatchi recogniced his skills.

At that fight Kakashi was quite cool, he knew what type of warrior Itatchi was and still acted cool. He was as fast as itachi in there fight, and i doubt that either of them whent in with full power. Until itachi showed him a skill he hadnt seen before. And he thought that it was enought with just a Sharingan.

I hope that we will se kakashi in a 1on1 fight against a strong enemy without having to watch his subs..

Love that Character....

kakashi could barely keep up with the speed of itachi so saying they were the same speed is well you get my point. also itachi didnt show him something he hasnt seen b4 as kakashi saw it coming thats why he told them to close their eyes as only a sharingan could go up against it. so kakashi has seen itachi or another uchiha with the mangeku sharingan use it b4. how else would he know about that jutsu. however what he didnt know is that its isnt only that sharingan but the bloodllimit itself is needed to resist it.

Ero-Senn1n · 2004-11-01, 16:08

And if Itachi used his Amaterasu all of them would have burned in it. It is most powerful jutsu where you dont have to form hand seals, that means he can use it instantly. But after using 2 powerful moves he would be low on chakra and Gai said ANBU was coming, so he decided not to "start a war".

Jiraiya sealed that black flame, he will surely analyze it in 3 years time and come up with something to counter it.

BrownRukus · 2004-11-01, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

And if Itachi used his Amaterasu all of them would have burned in it. It is most powerful jutsu where you dont have to form hand seals, that means he can use it instantly. But after using 2 powerful moves he would be low on chakra and Gai said ANBU was coming, so he decided not to "start a war".

Jiraiya sealed that black flame, he will surely analyze it in 3 years time and come up with something to counter it.

Um Itachi used Amaterasu after that kakashi fight was over, only used Mange Sharigan with Tsukoyomi(sp?) against Kakashi.

If hypotically speaking that he could have killed them all using Amaterasu and Mange Sharigan with Tsukoyomi(sp?) and thus saying when Gai came and sai all that stuff bout ANBU comming that's why he re-treated?

I duno, i think am consued or somethitng is wrong here

I just offically confused myself

Sazelyt · 2004-11-01, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

And if Itachi used his Amaterasu all of them would have burned in it. It is most powerful jutsu where you dont have to form hand seals, that means he can use it instantly.

I thought the details for Amaterasu have not been disclosed yet (e.g., whether it has some additional requirements or not other than the Sharingan). We don't know yet if the fire that Amaterasu forms is katon like fire or a laser kind of fire (where it is sufficient to born one point, the effect of the fire enlarges by itself very rapidly) or something in between. Since the fire is created by the eye it seems considering a laser-type of attack or the last type seems more possible. In the laser case, he might have rolled his eyes to cut the tissue-block. Then it comes to the point, how long can he use it, what kind of speed limit he has to obey for maximum impact, what is the speed of the fire, what should be the distance to the opponent? Considering the speed of the ninjas, do you think he can use his eye successfully on moving ninjas? It seems to me, this technique can be used more efficiently on static opponents, hence in a typical fight, it might not be that useful if he cannot immobilize his opponent.

Ero-Senn1n · 2004-11-01, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by seralin

I thought the details for Amaterasu have not been disclosed yet (e.g., whether it has some additional requirements or not other than the Sharingan). We don't know yet if the fire that Amaterasu forms is katon like fire or a laser kind of fire (where it is sufficient to born one point, the effect of the fire enlarges by itself very rapidly) or something in between. Since the fire is created by the eye it seems considering a laser-type of attack or the last type seems more possible. In the laser case, he might have rolled his eyes to cut the tissue-block. Then it comes to the point, how long can he use it, what kind of speed limit he has to obey for maximum impact, what is the speed of the fire, what should be the distance to the opponent? Considering the speed of the ninjas, do you think he can use his eye successfully on moving ninjas? It seems to me, this technique can be used more efficiently on static opponents, hence in a typical fight, it might not be that useful if he cannot immobilize his opponent.

Oh I forgot to explain why I think it would be effective against Gai: Gai is looking at his feet so Tsukiyomi useless. But if he looks there he cannot see his eye or even hand seals if he needs them. The other is the speed, I must admit that it is based on the anime, in the anime he opens his eyes and then a we hear a huge explosion-like sound and the ground shaking. It seems realy fast jutsu, just like the Tsukiyomi, it was only one second in real world while for Kakshi it was a day time.
But in the manga may be different, dont know for the speed if I look only the manga, so my assumption may be wrong.

Rolling eye is really cool idea, it the 3 spots rolling would be really cool when animated. And the hole was like a circle too, it's likely a laser-beam type attack. And the ground shaking and explosion sound means there was an impact of some power source with the wall, not a fire starting from the wall.

Animizzle · 2004-11-01, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by seralin

I thought the details for Amaterasu have not been disclosed yet (e.g., whether it has some additional requirements or not other than the Sharingan).We don't know yet if the fire that Amaterasu forms is katon like fire or a laser kind of fire (where it is sufficient to born one point, the effect of the fire enlarges by itself very rapidly) or something in between.

Officialy no, In the Naruto game however, it is clearly shown that the Amaterasu spontaneously combusts the opponent. This is, offcourse only the game. The Amaterasu being a cool move it had to be included so it's not a fact at all.

Quote:

Since the fire is created by the eye it seems considering a laser-type of attack or the last type seems more possible. In the laser case, he might have rolled his eyes to cut the tissue-block. Then it comes to the point, how long can he use it, what kind of speed limit he has to obey for maximum impact, what is the speed of the fire, what should be the distance to the opponent? Considering the speed of the ninjas, do you think he can use his eye successfully on moving ninjas? It seems to me, this technique can be used more efficiently on static opponents, hence in a typical fight, it might not be that useful if he cannot immobilize his opponent.

Apart from the fact that pretty much all attacks are more useful on static opponents, I'd have to go with the game scenario.
It seems pretty farfetched we are talking about eye-lasers, this isn't transformers. No most likely, as we saw already he closes his eyes, focuses and opens his eyes abruptly and the target combusts.

another theory could be that he actually summons them.
Kind of similair to Hiei from Yu Yu Hakusho who summons a black dragon flame from the demon world.
Alternate worlds do exist in Naruto, so it could be he summons the animal whom does not appear in physical shape but is trough the mangekyou sharingan able to attack.

This would kind of explain the instant effect, it would be weird if he shoots chakra from his eyes.

Sazelyt · 2004-11-01, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animizzle

In the Naruto game however, it is clearly shown that the Amaterasu spontaneously combusts the opponent.

If you can, can you post some pictures to show how the technique was portrayed in the game? I don't know if it is possible since I haven't seen the game, but it would be great if the pictures show the technique from both behind and front view.

Dalziel · 2004-11-01, 23:30

I've gotta say that 236 is an awsome episode / chapter! Sakura finally becomes usefull!!! I mean up till now Naruto and Saske were carrying here! She didn't do much at all. Also, her chakra controle was soo good it was obviouse that she was gonna be a medical ninja, since she couldn't fight. I was relieved that she FINALY found her place.

237 is an interesting chapter just because I'm getting the feeling that naruto is gonna learn something cool! I still can't get over the fight he had with saske! VERY COOL!

Anyway, I suppose I should say hello, I'm a new member, but a very long time watcher and reader! Anime is my LIFE! I love it, the first series I've ever watched was Neon genesis evangelion and I've never turned back!!!!

AznExzztasy · 2004-11-01, 23:34

did naruto get hit a little too hard in the head or something? i think we've seen a little too much of the same old. by that i mean the stubborness of naruto in trying to do that seems nearly impossible. it seems overused already. he wants to go after sasuke even though he was nearly killed by him and yet still considers him a friend? what the... maybe should take a new turn on things and give the manga a little more plot twist. i somehow knew that naruto wouldve stubbornly wanted to go after sasuke. again and again with the motive behind all that naruto does. its not even based on emotion much now, it seems as if its just a goal to him because sakura wants it. what does it have to do with him? a friend? sasuke is not the same anymore but dumb naruto is too thickheaded to see that or something? argh...

Lost World · 2004-11-02, 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by AznExzztasy

did naruto get hit a little too hard in the head or something? i think we've seen a little too much of the same old. by that i mean the stubborness of naruto in trying to do that seems nearly impossible. it seems overused already. he wants to go after sasuke even though he was nearly killed by him and yet still considers him a friend? what the... maybe should take a new turn on things and give the manga a little more plot twist. i somehow knew that naruto wouldve stubbornly wanted to go after sasuke. again and again with the motive behind all that naruto does. its not even based on emotion much now, it seems as if its just a goal to him because sakura wants it. what does it have to do with him? a friend? sasuke is not the same anymore but dumb naruto is too thickheaded to see that or something? argh...

I'd hate to be one of your friends. True friends never give up on each other. And Naruto knows Sasuke had a chance to kill him, but didn't.

missing_nin · 2004-11-02, 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost World

I'd hate to be one of your friends. True friends never give up on each other. And Naruto knows Sasuke had a chance to kill him, but didn't.

i have to agree with AznExzztasy on this one. Narutos isnt growing as a character and i''ve always like sasukes character growth.
hmm. you talk about friendship, i wouldnt want a frien who wants to replace mu head with a chidori

2004-11-01, 13:02	Link #268
tvoben Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Kakashi Yeah, kakashi has a great potensial. He is know all over the land for his skills, Zabula had notes on him from when he training for the killer squads. Itatchi recogniced his skills. At that fight Kakashi was quite cool, he knew what type of warrior Itatchi was and still acted cool. He was as fast as itachi in there fight, and i doubt that either of them whent in with full power. Until itachi showed him a skill he hadnt seen before. And he thought that it was enought with just a Sharingan. I hope that we will se kakashi in a 1on1 fight against a strong enemy without having to watch his subs.. Love that Character....

2004-11-01, 15:34	Link #269
Nine Devil Master(Vicious)'s Padawan Join Date: Nov 2003	Euhm mate Kakashi was getting totally owned by Itachi. Same speed as Itachi, you make me chuckle.. __________________ The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

2004-11-01, 23:30	Link #277
Dalziel Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Age: 44	Ep 236 and 237 I've gotta say that 236 is an awsome episode / chapter! Sakura finally becomes usefull!!! I mean up till now Naruto and Saske were carrying here! She didn't do much at all. Also, her chakra controle was soo good it was obviouse that she was gonna be a medical ninja, since she couldn't fight. I was relieved that she FINALY found her place. 237 is an interesting chapter just because I'm getting the feeling that naruto is gonna learn something cool! I still can't get over the fight he had with saske! VERY COOL! Anyway, I suppose I should say hello, I'm a new member, but a very long time watcher and reader! Anime is my LIFE! I love it, the first series I've ever watched was Neon genesis evangelion and I've never turned back!!!!

2004-11-01, 08:21	Link #262
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	Not that it matters now but I still insist that whether Kakashi is in his prime or not as a ninja at age 26 that age is too young to be past your prime, in most popular American sports that is. If this was like DBZ they'd just keep on getting impossibly strong as they get older with every saga until they could destroy the universe but I think Kishimoto likes to keep his charcters more down to earth. At 26 Kakashi isn't going to have a growth spurt that makes him jump in strength the way a scrawny 12 year old would grow into a robust 18 year old that certainly doesn't happen but he's still young enough to stay in his prime for about four more years and even then he can become more skilled so his age really has nothing to do with him becoming a stronger ninja if he's still young. I think Kakashi will only get slightly stronger or we'll see him use more moves in battle against opponents but he's not washed up a a character in the series. This time jump will simply level the playing field for the real main characters and the rest will remain virtually the same. I don't think Sasuke will be stronger than Itachi after the time jump but atleast be strong enough to not get beat so embarrassingly like he did last time.

2004-11-01, 11:46	Link #264
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	If we take a look at all that information we can come to the conclusion that Kakashi is nearing the physical peak of the average athlete but certainly not past it at the age of 26. In 3 years he would be considered in his prime and I don't think he would get much stronger than what we see of him after that. The manga will probably show him as the same Kakashi, just a little better. The inetresting question would be how strong will Naruto and Sasuke be in 3 years.

2004-11-01, 11:59	Link #265
The-Wolf-Of-Mibu Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004	People need to really stop all this comparing to the real world crap. You cant gauge peak age, or point of stamina deterioration by comparing it to the real world. Because in the real world people dont make lighting in their hands and summon giant 100 foot tall toads from the palm of their hand.

2004-11-01, 12:07	Link #266
Genei Killua Mashou no Tenshi Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH Age: 39	If we're talking about ninjas, and if you define a ninja's 'peak' to mean his maximum chakra capacity combined with stamina, then the mere physical peak of a ninja does not equate into his overall peak. For, as it has been stated, a physical peak once reached does not deteriorate that rapidly-- it actually only really starts deteriorating into the late 30's or 40's, which interestingly enough is when Orochimaru really started working on his immortality jutsu. Perhaps he was starting to feel the sting of old age. So, stamina can be based off of physical peak, but chakra is from both stamina and spiritual energy. And while the stamina decreases slowly once the peak is reached, the spiritual energy could very likely continue to grow at a rate that would make up for the slight decrease in stamina. If a person were to gain spiritual experience at a very fast rate, his/her chakra would also increase at a fast rate as long as his body were not deteriorating at a fast rate. Also, it's important to note that the stamina 'peak' we are talking about relates to a person's potential physical peak, not necessarily the person's actual peak. A fat person, for instance, who only starts working out at age 50 could end up being much better off physically at 52 than at 22.

2004-11-01, 12:38	Link #267
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	Yes, Kakashi as he has stated is out of shape (as far as a conditioned ninja goes) and may need to train harder to get back into his old fighting shape, even at his age he isn't in perfect shape and still hasn't reached his prime. So as far a stamina goes kakashi won't be losing much of that for several years and he can always gain more spiritual enrgey as he trains and practices different jutsu. He's a genius and can find ways to make himself alot stronger. I don't think thats going to help him against the likes of Itachi or Orochimaru, perhaps against Kabuto and Kisame. He's definetly to deep a charcter for Kishimoto to hold back too much on, we haven't seen the last of Copy Ninja Kakashi in action.

2004-11-01, 16:08	Link #271
Ero-Senn1n Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hidden Village of Sake	And if Itachi used his Amaterasu all of them would have burned in it. It is most powerful jutsu where you dont have to form hand seals, that means he can use it instantly. But after using 2 powerful moves he would be low on chakra and Gai said ANBU was coming, so he decided not to "start a war". Jiraiya sealed that black flame, he will surely analyze it in 3 years time and come up with something to counter it.

2004-11-01, 23:34	Link #278
AznExzztasy Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NYC Age: 36	did naruto get hit a little too hard in the head or something? i think we've seen a little too much of the same old. by that i mean the stubborness of naruto in trying to do that seems nearly impossible. it seems overused already. he wants to go after sasuke even though he was nearly killed by him and yet still considers him a friend? what the... maybe should take a new turn on things and give the manga a little more plot twist. i somehow knew that naruto wouldve stubbornly wanted to go after sasuke. again and again with the motive behind all that naruto does. its not even based on emotion much now, it seems as if its just a goal to him because sakura wants it. what does it have to do with him? a friend? sasuke is not the same anymore but dumb naruto is too thickheaded to see that or something? argh...