AnimeSuki Forums

[T]ensio[N] · 2010-07-25, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by itzglez

@Mashed yeah I think it has been claimed. though I'm not sure if I saw someone already been using that.

no Mugi yet?

i agree with itzglez
someone should do all the character separately and one with all the characters

EDIT: not making a request or anything just saying....

felix · 2010-07-25, 03:27

(lol no love for Ritsu)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

You just said it was optimization for Photoshop, but I thought '' I just selected the left side (1/5th) and copied it to a layer that I placed so it covers each frame, since it wasn't moving. No masking. '' was to reduce the file size ? I'm still not sure how this phase works exactly. From which frame/layer? to select, and then where to place the new layer at.

Uniforming pixels makes the .gif smaller.
Delete unused layers makes photoshop do stuff faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

I actually gave it a go on my own project, but then when I wanted to see how it looked on the Save for Web & Devices, for some reason the GIF contained only few frames .. instead all of them like it should have.

Can I see the .psd for that?

felix · 2010-07-25, 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moemoekyun

Ya, im using it in a dif forum ;-0

Ok.

Tsumugi~ · 2010-07-25, 06:07

^Nice new avy and sig btw

Dist · 2010-07-25, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix

(lol no love for Ritsu)

Uniforming pixels makes the .gif smaller.
Delete unused layers makes photoshop do stuff faster.

Can I see the .psd for that?

I don't know how it happened, couldn't recreate the situation now. However, here's the psd file to show where I am currently at. Could you just do miniguide with pictures using this project as an example, how to unify the pixels ( This is what I am trying to do .. right ? ).

http://www.mediafire.com/?djp1r2s1fr15y6m

^Also if I did something wrong in the project then let me know .. I selected the first frame and then selected an area, right click => Copy Via Layer so the layer was created. This is where I get stuck .. I don't know where to place to layer, and what to do from here on. Cause doing only this sure ain't reducing the file size.

Ps. Can I have borderless version of your current avatar at AS so I can use it on messenger ? I'm too lazy to make one since you already did :P

Moemoekyun · 2010-07-25, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix

Ok.

Felix, do you know where i can watch black rock shooter? ;[

Dist · 2010-07-25, 08:58

^From your computer ? From online ? How about read the Black Rock Shooter thread or visit some Torrent sites.

And seriously, this topic has gone way too offtopic lately

Moemoekyun · 2010-07-25, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

^From your computer ? From online ? How about read the Black Rock Shooter thread or visit some Torrent sites.

And seriously, this topic has gone way too offtopic lately

Computer and lol sorry for going offtopic, i've been searching black rock shooter but i can't find it Dx

felix · 2010-07-25, 09:39

Toshokan, I can't say any more then that. Its against forum rules.

felix · 2010-07-25, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

I don't know how it happened, couldn't recreate the situation now. However, here's the psd file to show where I am currently at. Could you just do miniguide with pictures using this project as an example, how to unify the pixels ( This is what I am trying to do .. right ? ).

http://www.mediafire.com/?djp1r2s1fr15y6m

^Also if I did something wrong in the project then let me know .. I selected the first frame and then selected an area, right click => Copy Via Layer so the layer was created. This is where I get stuck .. I don't know where to place to layer, and what to do from here on. Cause doing only this sure ain't reducing the file size.

Okey I see the problem now. In that .psd I gave you the layers associated with each frame were already optimized. The ones in Pre are the non-optimized ones, but they are not associated with the frames.

You did nothing wrong. The reason you don't see a difference is because you selected pixels I already uniformed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

Ps. Can I have borderless version of your current avatar at AS so I can use it on messenger ? I'm too lazy to make one since you already did :P

Yes I don't mind. Here you go:

I'm going to .gif the entire episode just so you know *looks at 60+ folders of frames* tehehe~
Probably post a few at a time in the thread since I don't have time to do all in one go.

Dist · 2010-07-25, 10:14

In the .psd I sent you, it's not the one you gave me but a different one that I did on my own so it's not optimized. Did I add the layer correctly there ? Cause it ain't reducing the file size, and I don't know what to do. All I did was add the layer there, so if there's something else I need to do .. well, it's not done.

And also since Mugi's head moves on top of the background, I would need to add another layer and select different area... and I dont know how to go about this. Miniguide ? D:

felix · 2010-07-25, 10:35

The pixels look like they were uniform before. So basically you were really lucky with the source. This isn't a technique that will always work, sometimes it makes a huge difference, sometimes it's effects are neglectable. Regardless I was able to simply save it (the one from your .psd) with 256 colors so I don't see the problem.

The difference in the initial comparison with your previous attempt might not have been related to this. If I were to take another guess it might be:

because mine is brighter there are fewer colors required to give the impression of good quality.
because its brighter some troublesome pictures in the middle part are removed and the entire thing becomes easier to optimize by photoshop
a difference in the frames. You might have had more frames, or it could also be what frames you selected.
If you had say Frame 1, Duplicate 1 of Frame 1, Duplicate 2 of Frame 1, Frame 2, obivously removing everything but the 2nd duplicate is the most favorable since the difference in pixels (due to video optimization or just noise) has the highest chance of being minimal for it (because its the closest to Frame 2).

Or it could be something else entirely.

Don't think too much into it. I'd say you got the gist of how the optimization is suppose to work. When you find a sequence that it can be used to great effect its going to prove useful. As long as you can get 256 colors though nobody really cares if you used it or not; trust me perfectionism can be a real pain sometimes. You know like you know you don't really need to do it but a little voice in your head keeps telling you it has to be perfect. Who cares if its wasting time ~

[edit] testing it brightness doesn't seem to work for this one; most likely a frame/source difference
[edit] oh yeah, how you crop it helps a lot too

Dist · 2010-07-25, 13:22

But in other words, all I have to do to use this technique is to select an area from the first frame, copy it as a layer and place it as a first layer above everything else ?

What if there are cases like yours, where you had to use two different layers since Mugi's head would move .. do I just create another layer, and then place that layer lets say, after Frame 6's layer ?

And yes, I was able to save mine with 256 colors but it would be 70kb .. By using the lossy option I could get it to under 50 of course but it looks .. Well, doesn't it look pretty bad if you use more than 10 lossy ?

Also for the BRS thing, I want an unique avatar as well ( from both BRS and Mato ) so once you make some freebies, reserve some for me :P.

felix · 2010-07-25, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

And yes, I was able to save mine with 256 colors but it would be 70kb .. By using the lossy option I could get it to under 50 of course but it looks .. Well, doesn't it look pretty bad if you use more than 10 lossy ?

You say that now, but every time I post you keep saying "wow that looks better then mine how did you do it"

Lets say you have a .gif and its 60kb (I'm gonna give you a rough guess for each)

switching algorythm from Perceptual to Additive: 60kb => 56kb
removing 50 colors: 60kb => 59.7kb
using 64 to 100 colors: 60kb => 55kb
reducing dither to 50%: 60kb => 58kb
1-2 loosy: 60kb => 55kb
10 loosy: 60kb => 46kb
10 loosy & dither reduction (sometimes might): 60kb => 20kb (careful though, dither is what keeps loosy from looking whack)
20 loosy: 60kb => 36kb

Conclusions: Photoshop doesn't really care too much for colors, only when you go to around 60 does it actually become noticeable (and its pretty abrupt; typically depends on the .gif) so you want to play with everything but colors. Incidentally the more colors you have the better dither/loosy look even at extreme values. Loosy has a direct and very noticeable impact on the algorithm and hence a huge impact on the size.

10 loosy is noticeable if you eyeball your monitor (focus really hard)
20 loosy is so-so... usually as long as dither is above 70 its no different then 10
30 loosy is pure noise, its noticible but for some scenes it doesn't matter (because there's already noise there)
if I can go past 30 and it still looks okey I will

Images who have been sharpened usually always require less to no loosy and almost always require color reduction. Those are the exception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

Also for the BRS thing, I want an unique avatar as well ( from both BRS and Mato ) so once you make some freebies, reserve some for me :P.

I'm afraid unless you request a particular scene you'll just have to be fast.

BTW are you still going to use the Yui ones or are they free for grabs now?

Dist · 2010-07-25, 16:55

I'll get back at you with the BRS thing when I find a suitable scene, or otherwise then just claim freebies that you post.

For the Yui thing.. I guess the avatars can be up for grabs. I like the signatures however, so even if I start using BRS one now I will use those Signatures later on when I get tired of BRS :P

Lastly, you didn't answer my original question : Did I understand correctly how to unify the pixels like I asked in the post above yours ? Because well, this method somehow seems far more easy than the one explained in Riker's guide.

And thanks for the explanation above with the colors and loosy.. I see pretty much how it works now, it's just I usually used the auto-optimization tool on PS so the quality ended up always bad since the colors were 64 or less.

Btw. Why don't you have your reputation enabled ? I owe you tons of rep by now but it seems futile to give it ( also I cant yet .. ).

Tsumugi~ · 2010-07-25, 17:18

Ahem..can i get a sig with this picture on it?

Also with Mio Akiyama written with kanjis on it. Size: 500x130

Thanks!

felix · 2010-07-25, 17:21

Do you have a source for Kanji I can render?

felix · 2010-07-25, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

Lastly, you didn't answer my original question : Did I understand correctly how to unify the pixels like I asked in the post above yours ? Because well, this method somehow seems far more easy than the one explained in Riker's guide.

Oh you understood perfectly. I just forgot to quote and say "Yes."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

Btw. Why don't you have your reputation enabled ? I owe you tons of rep by now but it seems futile to give it ( also I cant yet .. ).

I just don't agree with the system. I do use it as a way to send tiny comments to people who have it enabled, but don't bother to send me rep, I can't read it when its disabled.

I'll enable it for a while since you asked, but probably disable it back in a day or two.

Tsumugi~ · 2010-07-25, 17:29

Yeah it sucks lol. I'll try to find something better

This is somewhat better..sorry again

I'm going to sleep,I'll try to find something better tomorrow.

I don't think i can find a better version,if it looks horrible just put Mio Akiyama in it or add the k-on logo

Solange · 2010-07-25, 17:38

Freebie I made.

Just tell me what text you want on it.

2010-07-25, 06:07	Link #1324
Tsumugi~ "This guy are sick." Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Italy	^Nice new avy and sig btw __________________

2010-07-25, 08:58	Link #1327
Dist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Age: 33	^From your computer ? From online ? How about read the Black Rock Shooter thread or visit some Torrent sites. And seriously, this topic has gone way too offtopic lately __________________

2010-07-25, 09:39	Link #1329
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	Toshokan, I can't say any more then that. Its against forum rules. __________________

2010-07-25, 10:14	Link #1331
Dist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Age: 33	In the .psd I sent you, it's not the one you gave me but a different one that I did on my own so it's not optimized. Did I add the layer correctly there ? Cause it ain't reducing the file size, and I don't know what to do. All I did was add the layer there, so if there's something else I need to do .. well, it's not done. And also since Mugi's head moves on top of the background, I would need to add another layer and select different area... and I dont know how to go about this. Miniguide ? D: __________________

2010-07-25, 10:35	Link #1332
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	The pixels look like they were uniform before. So basically you were really lucky with the source. This isn't a technique that will always work, sometimes it makes a huge difference, sometimes it's effects are neglectable. Regardless I was able to simply save it (the one from your .psd) with 256 colors so I don't see the problem. The difference in the initial comparison with your previous attempt might not have been related to this. If I were to take another guess it might be: because mine is brighter there are fewer colors required to give the impression of good quality. because its brighter some troublesome pictures in the middle part are removed and the entire thing becomes easier to optimize by photoshop a difference in the frames. You might have had more frames, or it could also be what frames you selected. If you had say Frame 1, Duplicate 1 of Frame 1, Duplicate 2 of Frame 1, Frame 2, obivously removing everything but the 2nd duplicate is the most favorable since the difference in pixels (due to video optimization or just noise) has the highest chance of being minimal for it (because its the closest to Frame 2). Or it could be something else entirely. Don't think too much into it. I'd say you got the gist of how the optimization is suppose to work. When you find a sequence that it can be used to great effect its going to prove useful. As long as you can get 256 colors though nobody really cares if you used it or not; trust me perfectionism can be a real pain sometimes. You know like you know you don't really need to do it but a little voice in your head keeps telling you it has to be perfect. Who cares if its wasting time ~ [edit] testing it brightness doesn't seem to work for this one; most likely a frame/source difference [edit] oh yeah, how you crop it helps a lot too __________________

2010-07-25, 13:22	Link #1333
Dist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Age: 33	But in other words, all I have to do to use this technique is to select an area from the first frame, copy it as a layer and place it as a first layer above everything else ? What if there are cases like yours, where you had to use two different layers since Mugi's head would move .. do I just create another layer, and then place that layer lets say, after Frame 6's layer ? And yes, I was able to save mine with 256 colors but it would be 70kb .. By using the lossy option I could get it to under 50 of course but it looks .. Well, doesn't it look pretty bad if you use more than 10 lossy ? Also for the BRS thing, I want an unique avatar as well ( from both BRS and Mato ) so once you make some freebies, reserve some for me :P. __________________

2010-07-25, 16:55	Link #1335
Dist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Age: 33	I'll get back at you with the BRS thing when I find a suitable scene, or otherwise then just claim freebies that you post. For the Yui thing.. I guess the avatars can be up for grabs. I like the signatures however, so even if I start using BRS one now I will use those Signatures later on when I get tired of BRS :P Lastly, you didn't answer my original question : Did I understand correctly how to unify the pixels like I asked in the post above yours ? Because well, this method somehow seems far more easy than the one explained in Riker's guide. And thanks for the explanation above with the colors and loosy.. I see pretty much how it works now, it's just I usually used the auto-optimization tool on PS so the quality ended up always bad since the colors were 64 or less. Btw. Why don't you have your reputation enabled ? I owe you tons of rep by now but it seems futile to give it ( also I cant yet .. ). __________________

2010-07-25, 17:18	Link #1336
Tsumugi~ "This guy are sick." Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Italy	Ahem..can i get a sig with this picture on it? Also with Mio Akiyama written with kanjis on it. Size: 500x130 Thanks! __________________

2010-07-25, 17:21	Link #1337
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	Do you have a source for Kanji I can render? __________________

2010-07-25, 17:29	Link #1339
Tsumugi~ "This guy are sick." Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Italy	Yeah it sucks lol. I'll try to find something better This is somewhat better..sorry again I'm going to sleep,I'll try to find something better tomorrow. I don't think i can find a better version,if it looks horrible just put Mio Akiyama in it or add the k-on logo __________________ Last edited by Tsumugi~; 2010-07-26 at 01:23.

2010-07-25, 17:38	Link #1340
Solange Être discutable Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2010	Freebie I made. Just tell me what text you want on it.