K-On! - Episode 12 [FINALE] Discussion / Poll

[Tamad]

It'd be really great if K-ON! can have at least one episode discussion topic that's free from the age old, tired, and beaten dead horse that is the endless friction between K-ON! fans and not so K-ON fans.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by TheBigN

I don't know about that. Than the beach episodes didn't matter to you? Or Mio picking up the slack when Yui forgot her words in episode 8? Yui in this episode still attempting to come and play when she wasn't 100%? The group working together to buy Yui a guitar or help her pass make-up exams? I thought the idea came through to me pretty well.

It might have been subtle, or there might not have been enough important life-changing moments or focusing on specific characters as much as others, but I do think that we can see a bond between the band members.

And as to the episode, I really enjoyed the execution of the switcheroo, and I thought Yui's vocals were nice.

Yes, your onto something there, it should have, but it didn't because it never felt like there was any kind of character development or build up to give it that oomph and feeling.

Also nothing about this show is subtle, I think I've said this before but I still stand firmly on that point. If K-On wants you to feel something or to laugh at a joke it's going to be right up in your face trying to illicit that response from you to the point where the characters (usually Ritsu and Azusa) will make the comment on what the viewer is supposed to be feeling.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

As for the episode itself... in some ways, I am baffled by what's posted in this thread (as opposed to the poll, which is more like what I expected). It seems to me that this was a fitting way of bringing the series back full-circle, tieing things into the central premise and showing the progress that's been made in the lives of the characters on the whole (and especially for Yui herself). If you liked episode 1, I can't picture what you wouldn't also appreciate in episode 12, which seems to me to be very much in the same vein. This was very much a "coda" to the entire work, so it makes total sense to me why they called it the "finale". So I'm baffled "in some ways", but I suppose that episode 12 also represents all the things the show is and also the things that it was never trying to be. People might have enjoyed episode 1 under a false impression, and now it's obvious that "this is the sort of show it is".

It's everything that comes between this episode and episode 1+2 that is the problem here. You've got a first episode that leads you to believe it's going to be a kind of series that shows characters bonding and growing through the prospect of forming a light music club. Then you have a middle that implies that was never the case and just through all the wacky moe antics in the book it can find at you with no real character bonding and development going on so much as everybody getting played for their one or two gag bits off of each other. Take a pause for a strong episode 08 which almost seemed like it was going to start building on the character relationships, goals etc, then it's right back into the moe antics for another 2 episodes and then before you know it you hit the brick wall where it's the ending and like I predicted they would, they try to haphazardly throw together a finale that tries to make it feel like it all meant something and like the characters have grown significantly and bonded clearly. This just isn't the case from my perspective. Unless one considers a disjointed sequence of moe gag antics for 8+ episodes character and relationship development then I think some people are going to find it hollow.

You are right that it represents all of the things the show was never trying to be though. And to me that's not a good thing because it also tries to embody them. This ISN'T the type of show it's been for the vast majority of it's run though. That I disagree with. If it was then I'm almost sure that it would have meant something to me.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Tamad

It'd be really great if K-ON! can have at least one episode discussion topic that's free from the age old, tired, and beaten dead horse that is the endless friction between K-ON! fans and not so K-ON fans.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Unless one considers a disjointed sequence of moe gag antics for 8+ episodes character and relationship development then I think some people are going to find it hollow.

But that was sort of the point of the last episode, wasn't it? They bonded simply by being together, and that was more important to them (and to the show) than the music they played. That was reinforced on many levels in this episode. This isn't a show about developing character and great ambition; it's just about a group of girls who became friends. And yes, we get to watch their silly antics. That's it. It's like you're always looking for the "so what" -- there is no "so what". Moe is the point of the show. Let's move on.

[Master Chibi]

Is it really THAT HARD for some people here to accept that we just didn't fully enjoy the show as much as other people did? No matter how many times people go against the grain here, lightly or not, I've never seen them ever ask the people who like the show how they could, just, well, LIKE IT, but the opposite is something that becomes a recurring activity. The people who do like it start asking "How could you not like it?" like there's something wrong with those that do.

This forum is so DEAD SET against that type of behaviour that people start saying "Oh, why bother watching?" "It's a waste of time on you", etc.

When did this become standard here?

And NO, I'm not trying to rile anyone up, it's an honest question.

:P

[Parappa]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Is it really THAT HARD for some people here to accept that we just didn't fully enjoy the show as much as other people did? No matter how many times people go against the grain here, lightly or not, I've never seen them ever ask the people who like the show how they could, just, well, LIKE IT, but the opposite is something that becomes a recurring activity. The people who do like it start asking "How could you not like it?" like there's something wrong with those that do.

This forum is so DEAD SET against that type of behaviour that people start saying "Oh, why bother watching?" "It's a waste of time on you", etc.

When did this become standard here?

And NO, I'm not trying to rile anyone up, it's an honest question.

:P

Actually, I find that people who don't like a show usually just state that they didn't like the show and move on. I don't think most people would torture themselves into watching a show they don't enjoy watching week after week. For instance I started watching more than the usual number of shows this season and I must have dropped half of them within the first 6 episodes. The reason was simple, I didn't enjoy them. Some of them were highly regarded too! However, I don't continue watching them and log on every week to write an essay primarily on what I would consider the negatives of each show and how it was not what I was expecting and still isn't till the very last episode. Then rate it as the crap I thought it was just cause I enjoy the torture and want to spread the joy of it. I hope you can understand as I'm just stating my honest opinion.

[Master Chibi]

See, you completely proved my point.

[Willow]

K-On! was very satisfying for me. And I rarely watch anime.. Looking forward to each episode every Friday and watching this show after a week long's work and drama makes me feel good.

This episode was like the ribbon that wraps the box all together. And I thought they wrapped it nicely. Even though they played partly with their backs to the audience, the encore was pretty nice; the progression from the keyboard to the percussions then to the strings was something (I didn't expect them to do that).

Sure, they didn't make as much music or character development but I mean, they still gave you laughs right? All that bonding those 5 girls shared were surely something to remember (for them). I'd surely remember those memories and hold on to 'em if I was one of those girls. And this show actually made me play the keyboard again ffs.

And oh. Mustn't forget.

Yui's "peace" lulz.

[Parappa]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

See, you completely proved my point.

I see my post went right over your head. That or you just plain didn't read it and were just waiting for an opportunity to use snark in post without substance.

[Vexx]

Some of what Kaioshin is looking for simply doesn't exist because it doesn't exist in the source material --- it is a 4-koma strip. By definition, any character development is going to have build in micro-increments 4 panels at a time over a long time before you can discern what a character *is* much less what they *evolve* to.

In adapting a 4-koma strip to a "continuous script" you can either create the illusion that it isn't just a stringing together of gags or simply "do the gags (ala much of Lucky*Star). K-On! tried to sublimate the 4-panel nature in a smooth way -- people can differ on whether they were successful or not.

And yeah, Parappa... way to not answer Chibi's question and simply provide an example o.O Here's an idea: answer his question.

It is not the purpose of a thread to simply worship a series as if it were faultless. Nor is it the purpose just to trash a series. Just like a book club, there's nothing wrong with pointing out the high points and low points of a series -- and whether you liked what was going on or not. You trade ideas and opinions about what was done well and what wasn't. If a particular person is getting completely out of hand by either being completely negative without any supporting data *OR* by being completely positive without any supporting data, then you report them to a mod.

[yezhanquan]

And so I was, at my usual manga reading site. I see K-On 26, I read it, and I go,"WTF? I enjoyed this more than any single anime episode?"

My point is that the anime never hit my buttons as a manga fan. The drama was "huh?", and the gags just didn't turn out to be as funny as they were in the source material.

[Parappa]

Originally Posted by Vexx

And yeah, Parappa... way to not answer Chibi's question and simply provide an example o.O

I don't think you understood my post either. So let me clarify. I'm not denying his right or anyone else's right to dislike or not like a series.

I'm questioning why anyone in their right mind would watch a series they clearly did not like or enjoy until the very last episode. For me personally, that would be torturing myself. I suppose some people enjoy this masochistic ritual, but I assume for most they do not.

Now adding to that torture would be posting it weekly until the very last episode why you did not like the show when logically if you don't like the show shouldn't you stop watching it for your own personal well being?

This illogical behavior is one I do not comprehend, not that I think every should like a show.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

But that was sort of the point of the last episode, wasn't it? They bonded simply by being together, and that was more important to them (and to the show) than the music they played. That was reinforced on many levels in this episode. This isn't a show about developing character and great ambition; it's just about a group of girls who became friends. And yes, we get to watch their silly antics. That's it. It's like you're always looking for the "so what" -- there is no "so what". Moe is the point of the show. Let's move on.

So it's not a very well constructed show, is pretty much all about the moe gags/antics and somehow in the K-On universe these moe antics and the characters engaging in them within the same perimeter as other characters somehow works out as character bonding.......somehow. Never mind the why, it all just is somehow because it's K-On. Yeah I think I can agree on that, but if there's still discussion to be had regarding final impressions then I don't see any reason why we ought to move on just yet. Audi alteram partem. I'm game for it.

Originally Posted by Vexx

Some of what Kaioshin is looking for simply doesn't exist because it doesn't exist in the source material --- it is a 4-koma strip. By definition, any character development is going to have build in micro-increments 4 panels at a time over a long time before you can discern what a character *is* much less what they *evolve* to.

In adapting a 4-koma strip to a "continuous script" you can either create the illusion that it isn't just a stringing together of gags or simply "do the gags (ala much of Lucky*Star). K-On! tried to sublimate the 4-panel nature in a smooth way -- people can differ on whether they were successful or not.

So then how much of the final two episodes were anime original and taking liberties with the flow of the 4Koma if any of it? I ask because I think that if they hadn't tried to do the reflective backstory like something was learned or like Yui has grown as a character from this experience then I wouldn't have quite as much to be critical of. In my honest opinion they really shouldn't have gone for that type of ending. It would make all the sense in the world normally yes for a show that has average character development, but K-On as some have pointed out has been pretty much straight up moe and it might as well have done better to go out on that note while keeping it simple light and fluffy. Just an idea.

[Parappa]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

And so I was, at my usual manga reading site. I see K-On 26, I read it, and I go,"WTF? I enjoyed this more than any single anime episode?"

My point is that the anime never hit my buttons as a manga fan. The drama was "huh?", and the gags just didn't turn out to be as funny as they were in the source material.

It's the opposite for me. I felt the manga was thin and lacking in material. It's a miracle to me that KyoAni manage to flesh it out as much as they did (It was just 2 volumes worth). I won't stop reading the 4koma though, as I enjoy it and want to continue Yui and CO's merry adventures.

If there's a second season, it might be some time before it's shown.

[yezhanquan]

Perhaps, I was already well attuned to yonkoma reading due to Lucky Star and Hidamari Sketch. I see each manga chapter as a day's snapshot. A little giggle from Mugi, a little emo from Mio, some screw-loose behaviour from Yui (and Ritsu). That's K-On to me.

I still think KyoAni was too hasty in picking up the series.

[Willow]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

So it's not a very well constructed show, is pretty much all about the moe gags/antics and somehow in the K-On universe these moe antics and the characters engaging in them within the same perimeter as other characters somehow works out as character bonding.......somehow.

I assume you regard yourself as a literary (and media) critic?

I don't know what bitter world you live in but just like TheBigN said:

Originally Posted by TheBigN

the beach episodes didn't matter to you? Or Mio picking up the slack when Yui forgot her words in episode 8? Yui in this episode still attempting to come and play when she wasn't 100%? The group working together to buy Yui a guitar or help her pass make-up exams? I thought the idea came through to me pretty well.

That means something to us girls and I don't know if you've ever been a teenager but that's how we feel and makes us feel better (well, the most anyway).

[Vexx]

There's an in-between land where people like some components of a series but have problems with other components. That's where almost all the people who aren't 100% shiny about K-On! are. Kaioshin is probably at one extreme along with Reckoner and some others -- but they've each said there are elements of the show they did like and mostly lament what they see as lost opportunities.

I'm probably closer to being relatively fine with the series other than the aforenoted animation decisions that will probably be DVD rectified.

Originally Posted by Willow

I assume you regard yourself as a literary (and media) critic?
I don't know what bitter world you live in but just like TheBigN said:

Hi, please don't try that argument ... simply by posting here when you discuss a series, YOU regard yourself as a critic. That's why everyone posts here -- they're doing critical analysis, whether they think so or not. This forum is a "shared blog" in a manner of speaking.

Besides that, yeah I agree with you it was not an unrealistic shorthand for the way girls sometimes bond (or guys for that matter). I personally found plenty of moments where the bonding process was conveyed (whether it was cliched or not).

[drobertbaker]

Excellent final episode! It really summed up the show and brought good closure to the story. Everyone can go home feeling good (If he wants to!).

Fuwa Fuwa Time was very nice.

Our love will always be a stapler!

[Parappa]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Perhaps, I was already well attuned to yonkoma reading due to Lucky Star and Hidamari Sketch. I see each manga chapter as a day's snapshot. A little giggle from Mugi, a little emo from Mio, some screw-loose behaviour from Yui (and Ritsu). That's K-On to me.

I still think KyoAni was too hasty in picking up the series.

Yeah, I see where you are coming from. Sometimes, you're used to a certain format. I was thinking it was like the transition from Sunday Newspaper comics (not the best example I know) to something like an animated show. There might be a disconnect when watching it in animated form. Like why did they leave out certain scenes, etc.

I agree with you on them being too hasty. It's also a problem with these short shows with 13 episodes or less. You have to create filler sometimes that do not have anything to do with the story and it might not flow as well as the manga. There's always a risk it becomes big like K-ON and you can tell that these days many shows are getting extra seasons to satisfy the fanbase.

[Midonin]

The term "filler" seems to be thrown around way too loosely here. Especially with the shows that run one or two cours. These things are planned out from the beginning, and as I've been trying to say across the board, new material is not inherently a bad thing.

[klare]

the episode feels warm and nice

Spoiler for a little supprise:

i did not expect they reverse the vocal for Fuwa Fuwa Time, will wait for that version

the preview shows there will be one more episode to go