How can you not like Sasuke?

[foob]

Naruto is surely egotistical... actually he was in the earlier episodes. Not as much now.
Anyways... if you compared them both... Naruto was even more conceited than Sasuke. Yet you notice this about Sasuke and not Naruto. Funny...

Yep... that is what i mean. "It seems funny how people like Shika for being lazy, and yet criticise Sasuke for it."

I don't see how you can say Naruto is conceited? He doesn't believe he can be hokage right now. He just believes he can be Hokage in the future, because he is willing to work hard for it. I see nothing wrong with that. He recognizes that he isn't very strong, and doesn't have any talent, but hey, that doesn't stop him from working towards his goal without sacrificing what he believes is right. Unlike Sasuke, who sacrifices his friends for more power.

It's not whether are you born with power/money/status or born with nothing that decides whether you will succeed later in life. It is the desire and the choices you make to overcome the obstacles you face. Sasuke and Naruto both have challenges to overcome, it's just that Sasuke seems to have chosen the wrong way to do it, while Naruto chooses the right ones.

This supposed anime about "hardwork will get you what you want" may disgust you, but it's not all pretty. Lee and Naruto are likeable because they both have no talent, and was so disappointed earlier in life, but were shown the way by Gai and Iruka respectively. And they decide to work hard to get what they want. Everybody wants the underdog to win. I see Lee working hard all his life just to end up crippled by Gaara who was born with the sand priest in him. No not everything will go well for people just because they work hard, but it sure will go better than for people that sit on their ass and dream.

People like Shika because he uses his brains. Shika is not lazy, his goal is just to have an easy, simple life and that's what he's doing. Sasuke has both brains and talent and uses neither to reach his goal. Now that's lazy. If sasuke use the same amount of energy Naruto has expended on learning the summoning jutsu, the rasengen, and pretty much just staying on top of gamabunta, he would be a lot more powerful than now. His training with Kakashi wasn't detailed, so I can't say much, but it seems that's the only time he has trained so seriously.

Holy shit I say a lot of shit.

[smee]

Originally Posted by Tzurial

Yeah, I dont think revenge and tight-ass have to necessarily go hand in hand, but in Sasuke's case he has to take revenge against his own brother. Hes probably had to force all feelings aside so that hes eventually capable of that, and in turn hes become quite an unaproachable and detached person. I dunno, it seems like hes done a lot of brooding and mix that with loneliness you can become quite a dark person.

ANYway! I dont know what Im talking about, I really only like sasuke cuz he has cool hair! ah-mazing!

lol, i made a thread about the people in naruto's hair.

[aahhsin]

Originally Posted by foob

I don't see how you can say Naruto is conceited? He doesn't believe he can be hokage right now. He just believes he can be Hokage in the future, because he is willing to work hard for it. I see nothing wrong with that. He recognizes that he isn't very strong, and doesn't have any talent, but hey, that doesn't stop him from working towards his goal without sacrificing what he believes is right. Unlike Sasuke, who sacrifices his friends for more power.

I don't even know when Sasuke sacrafices his friends for power? Tell me when? He just thinks they'll get in his way, but he doesn't kill his friends to get power.

Spoiler:

if you think him leaving the leaf is sacraficing his friends you're dead wrong. he left because he felt that was the best choice for him. He told Sakura to not go after him. The reason Tsunade wanted Naruto and Co. to go after him was because she didn't want to lose sasuke to Oro.

It's not whether are you born with power/money/status or born with nothing that decides whether you will succeed later in life. It is the desire and the choices you make to overcome the obstacles you face. Sasuke and Naruto both have challenges to overcome, it's just that Sasuke seems to have chosen the wrong way to do it, while Naruto chooses the right ones.

What are you talking about? There is no right way to do something. When you do it you do it. You can kill a man with a knife or a gun, either way you kill him. a gun is just easier.

Spoiler:

Just because he wants Oro to train him whats wrong with that? Cause oro is evil? Who gives a shit. Oro > Jiraya (He's smarter faster stronger) I wouldn't mind being trained by a stronger guy. if you don't believe me, he took Jiraya and Tsunade on without his arms. and he said jiraya's still gaps away from him

People like Shika because he uses his brains. Shika is not lazy, his goal is just to have an easy, simple life and that's what he's doing. Sasuke has both brains and talent and uses neither to reach his goal. Now that's lazy. If sasuke use the same amount of energy Naruto has expended on learning the summoning jutsu, the rasengen, and pretty much just staying on top of gamabunta, he would be a lot more powerful than now. His training with Kakashi wasn't detailed, so I can't say much, but it seems that's the only time he has trained so seriously.

Tree training? That seems pretty hard work. he's using his brain and talent he could probably beat haku and his demon mirrors without any kiyubi powers.

[EliteJounin]

Originally Posted by foob

I don't see how you can say Naruto is conceited? He doesn't believe he can be hokage right now. He just believes he can be Hokage in the future, because he is willing to work hard for it. I see nothing wrong with that. He recognizes that he isn't very strong, and doesn't have any talent, but hey, that doesn't stop him from working towards his goal without sacrificing what he believes is right. Unlike Sasuke, who sacrifices his friends for more power.

Okay... first of all, your... er... "thesis" is a bit off.
I said... Naruto WAS even more conceited. If you have been taught correctly. That "was" is past tense. So, obviously that means in the past. And yes... he really was conceited in the beginning. As for Sasuke, i dont think he sacrifices his friends to gain power. There has not been an episode that i have watched that shows him back-stabbing his friends.
And of course, Naruto's goal is to become Hokage. I agree with that.

[QUOTE]This supposed anime about "hardwork will get you what you want" may disgust you, but it's not all pretty. Lee and Naruto are likeable because they both have no talent, and was so disappointed earlier in life, but were shown the way by Gai and Iruka respectively. And they decide to work hard to get what they want. Everybody wants the underdog to win. I see Lee working hard all his life just to end up crippled by Gaara who was born with the sand priest in him. No not everything will go well for people just because they work hard, but it sure will go better than for people that sit on their ass and dream.[QUOTE]

To be honest, i love the idea of "hardwork will get you what you want."
You cant really say that Rock Lee has talent. He does have talent.

[QUOTE]People like Shika because he uses his brains. Shika is not lazy, his goal is just to have an easy, simple life and that's what he's doing. Sasuke has both brains and talent and uses neither to reach his goal. Now that's lazy. If sasuke use the same amount of energy Naruto has expended on learning the summoning jutsu, the rasengen, and pretty much just staying on top of gamabunta, he would be a lot more powerful than now. His training with Kakashi wasn't detailed, so I can't say much, but it seems that's the only time he has trained so seriously.

Shikamaru is lazy. That is a fact. Although in a very cool way. You say he isnt because you like him. People who like... well... whatever tend to defend their beliefs. And he uses his brains only when he is pressured to. Otherwise he doesnt need to use it or doesnt bother to. His personality attracts anyone. Just like Sasuke's attracts anyone or doesnt.
And I agree with aahhsin. Sasuke uses his brains and his talent.

[raikage]

Originally Posted by aahhsin

There is no right way to do something. When you do it you do it. You can kill a man with a knife or a gun, either way you kill him. a gun is just easier.

This is true. Dead is dead.

Spoiler:

Just because he wants Oro to train him whats wrong with that? Cause oro is evil? Who gives a shit.

True. I wouldn't go for him b/c he'll put the curse seal on you to make you his b*tch for life, but that's just me.

Spoiler:

Oro > Jiraya (He's smarter

Unproven

Spoiler:

faster

Unproven

Spoiler:

stronger

Unproven

Spoiler:

If you don't believe me, he took Jiraya and Tsunade on without his arms. and he said jiraya's still gaps away from him

So...because he SAID he's better that makes it so? Like if I SAID I was better than you that would automatically make it true? That's just trash-talk.

Spoiler:

P.S. The fight was Oro w/o arms vs a drugged Jiraiya. True, Oro had no arms, but you have to remember that a drugged person will be FAR weaker, slower, and less 'on the ball' than usual. Plus, a drugged/weakened Jiraiya still has enough chakra to summon Gamabunta. Oro was still at full power, just had to use Kabuto to do the hand seals for him.

Back on topic: Sasuke is scared. As he realizes his inadequacies (as a NINJA), he doesn't like it one bit. He's not ALLOWED to be cocky anymore.

Spoiler:

As he tries to fight his brother, and sees Naruto's power, he realizes he isn't anywhere nearly as good as he thought he was

But he KNOWS he's on a path/journey which will only lead to unhappiness. He realizes that with the death of his brother, he will be the last Uchiha (that we know of, there might have been girls in the family that married out - extended cousins?) and the chances of restoring his clan are pretty low. It's not like they're scattered across the country - they're DEAD.

[Lee-pimp]

let me clear up the whole shika thing ok

shika is lazy because he says in the manga and this isnt really a spoiler because it doesnt have an impact on the story well he says
i just want to lead an average life as a normal chuunin with a nice wife and family and die of old age

with his talent he can accomplish all of that while still being lazy so it doesnt have an effect on his goal while sasuke needs to get stonger and cant really be lazy so shika is lazy but it doesnt matter and sasuke is lazy and it matters that is why sasuke is disliked for being lazy

and about the oro-jiraiya thing

Spoiler:

jiraiya was drugged so naturally much weaker tsunade was just in a fight with kabuto if i remember correctly and oro had his arms sealed off however he had kabuto to do seals for him so the arms didnt really matter thats why it took an INJURED tsunade and a DRUGGED jiraiya to beat oro not that jiraiya was weaker

so sasuke would have been better off staying at home and training with naruto or kakashi to get stronger insted of

Spoiler:

going to MJ

ok well that was long but hopefully it will silence some arguments on sasukes side i still remain with my original sasuke is a gay prick who thinks hes better then everyone else and really isnt

[p3psi]

HOw can you not like Oro's future "alter boy"????

[Dragon Flame]

ahhh p3psi thats a great pun "alter boy" people are going to think it was a spelling error, but i get your joke, dont worry ;-)

[Vicious]

Originally Posted by Lee-pimp

so sasuke would have been better off staying at home and training with naruto or kakashi to get stronger insted of

Spoiler:

going to MJ

ok well that was long but hopefully it will silence some arguments on sasukes side i still remain with my original sasuke is a gay prick who thinks hes better then everyone else and really isnt

I have to disagree with you there, Lee-pimp-san.

Spoiler:

Sasuke knows he wouldn't have almost any progress if he stayed in the Leaf training to weak guys such as Kakashi and Naruto (weak compared to Orochimaru). He wants a greater power, and he want it fast. So his only option is Oro. Jiraiya wouldn't train him because he knows Sasuke has a bad motivation to get stronger. Itachi's impossible, he wouldn't help Sasuke for anything in the world. So last option is Orochimaru.

Plus, we all have to remember Oro's just using the "making Sasuke stronger" thing as a fake statement to bring Sasuke near him, that way he'll posses his body and fullfill part of his ambition of becoming the strongest. It never was Oro's intention to make Sasuke stronger.

[p3psi]

gee, thanks dragon boy! i can always count on you! oh, did you check your pm box? please get back to me asap, this is going to be fun! +D

[aahhsin]

Spoiler:

I don't think oro is going to take over sasuke body just yet. He knows if he takes over sasukes body now it'll be weak. I think Oro will train him first to get him stronger. remember he oro did say Sasuke has more potential and talent then even Itachi. So who knows. And YES ORO > JIYRAYA He was stronger before, and now.

[Hunter]

Where did you see Sasuke being lazy?
When he was in the coma in a hospital's bed?

This is exactly the annoying thing in the Sasuke's haters (and ponctually on some other characters too) they try to built some poor excuses to explain their hate.
If you say : I hate Sasuke, I dunno really why but I hate him, or because you don't like the stereotype of the dark avenger or whatever, well okey, fine, you can't like all the characters.

But stop inventing thing.
lol seriously I hate Sasuke because he's lazy
Get real 3 secondes please.

Sasuke is about the same level of Neji without using his seal, the only genins better than him are Gaara and Naruto, not because they work harder, but because they have a demon inside them.
Lee was the only ninja who could only counpt on his hardwork.
And he lost.

Hardwork<Genious<Demon.
Maybe sad, but true.

Each time the manga has shown Sasuke training, he was serious, both Naruto and him trained all the nights for the tree thing and

Spoiler:

he gain the speed of Lee without the weight and the Chidori in two weeks

So Sasuke lazy? lol try something else.

And for the Oro/Jiraiya point.

Spoiler:

Yes it's proven that Oro was stronger than Jiraiya, the reason why oro didn't became the 4th was his twisted ideology, not his strength.
And due to his immortality spell, Oro is on his prime but with 50 years of knowledge and experience.

[Vicious]

Originally Posted by aahhsin

Spoiler:

I don't think oro is going to take over sasuke body just yet. He knows if he takes over sasukes body now it'll be weak. I think Oro will train him first to get him stronger. remember he oro did say Sasuke has more potential and talent then even Itachi. So who knows. And YES ORO > JIYRAYA He was stronger before, and now.

Spoiler:

Oro can't posses Sasuke's body now. His arms are sealed, he can't perform seals now, so he can't perform the Immortality Jutsu. He'll have to find a way to heal his arms, and if he manages to find it, he'll take over Sasuke's body right away. He wants Sasuke's Sharingan, if Sasuke's strong or not it's not important. If Oro takes over Sasuke's body, it's not Sasuke anymore, but Oro. Thus, Oro's strenght, not Sasuke's.

[Hunter]

Spoiler:

No I think too that Oro need to train Sasuke's body before trying to steal it, for the moment, Oro is far stronger in his present body even without his arms, Sasuke hasn't enough stamina/chakra to use the jutsu of Oro.

If Oro doesn't train him, the body will be useless for a long time, and anybody could kill Oro during this.

[Manga Maniac]

Well i dislike sasuke a bit cause i don´t like people with those attitudes like him.
Those people will only loose more in the end than what they had expected. Ok i can understand why his hole life is cirkled around vengance. Still....At what cost?

[Spoiler]If he´s not carefull enough he´s going to become MJ:s b*tch and not being able to fullfil his ambitions[\spoiler]
Thats why i dislike his character...those characters like him in general that is. They don´t see what they can loose. And even if they do...they don´t care....seing people give up on life for something like revenge is one of the dumbest thing i can think of and dislikes.

That is my reason. (If you wanna flame me...Who cares? I don´t like him and thats that.)
Just my opinion.

Edit: OMg....i havent posted up in such a ,ong time i have forgotten how to make a proper spoiler tag........*bangs head on deskboard*

[Dryad]

Spoiler:

I think that Oro will attempt to get Sasuke's body as soon as he can to be sure to have it then he'll train Sasuke's body in order to be able to do what he want. After all Oro want to know every jutsu and i'm sure he will start as soon as he can. If he lack of strenght/chakra he will still have the level 2 curse that he put on Sasuke.

[aahhsin]

Originally Posted by Dryad

Spoiler:

I think that Oro will attempt to get Sasuke's body as soon as he can to be sure to have it then he'll train Sasuke's body in order to be able to do what he want. After all Oro want to know every jutsu and i'm sure he will start as soon as he can. If he lack of strenght/chakra he will still have the level 2 curse that he put on Sasuke.

Spoiler:

I seriously doubt that. I don't think he'll put a seal on himself, he'll probably take it off later hell he himself doesn't have one so he knows what the seal can do. I still think he's going to have to train him first, no point in retraining basic training (especially when your strong like oro) just to get chakra levels up.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Dryad

Spoiler:

If he lack of strenght/chakra he will still have the level 2 curse that he put on Sasuke.

Spoiler:

I don't think so because the curse seal erode the body to the death, that would be the same to slowly destroy the body and this is the last thing which Oro wants.

[Dryad]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Spoiler:

I don't think so because the curse seal erode the body to the death, that would be the same to slowly destroy the body and this is the last thing which Oro wants.

Spoiler:

He might as well mix Kabuto and Tsunade regeneration jutsu in a way to counter the effect of the curse seal. I mean he developped an immortality jutsu so i guess he could manage to create something like that. It's more a theory than a spoiler but i won't take any chances.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Dryad

Spoiler:

He might as well mix Kabuto and Tsunade regeneration jutsu in a way to counter the effect of the curse seal. I mean he developped an immortality jutsu so i guess he could manage to create something like that. It's more a theory than a spoiler but i won't take any chances.

Spoiler:

Well actually he can't use the regeneration of Tsunade like that, he's not -yet - an Uchiha, but anyway, the probleme remain the same, to be able to use such healing or regenerating jutsu, you need a gigantic amount of stamina/chakra, the use of the curse seal level 2 would just allow him to regenerate the damage from the curse seal ^^