[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 3 Banquet of the golden witch

[Sterling01]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate...

Spoiler for Ep 3 chapter 4:

While Beato is telling Battler her past she says "The me sitting in that chair is a Homunculus that Kinzo inserted my soul into" or something like that... Battler rationalizes this as Beato was the daughter of Beatrice and since Beatrice killed herself Kinzo raised Beato to be his new "Beatrice"... (Kinda like the tale of Genji )

Beato after being "raised" by Kinzo for nineteen years thinks of Kinzo as her father. The 19 year old Beato then meets Rosa and tries to go outside of her mansion but dies due to falling off a cliff. Meanwhile in Battler-world, Battler who's been dead due to Lucifer killing him for being "disrespectful" (He was just offering her the last cookie ) is revived by Beato. Battler notices that there was no way a human could be alive after a fall like that, but still he wants Beato to say it in red... Beato says "How does that look alive to you? She is definitely dead."

Beato then turns into the Beato we know... (19 year old Beato reminds me of amnesic CC... Ryu-chan did you get your ideas for Beato's past from Code Geass...? )

If we look at Hanyu's past from Higurashi it's quite easy to think Ryu-chan might pull something similar.

Or I might just be over thinking things since I just finished editing the translation for chapter 4

[Kets]

Spoiler for A question:

Why are Shannon and Gohda confirmed sheep?

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by Kets

Spoiler for A question:

Why are Shannon and Gohda confirmed sheep?

What?

[ClockWorkAngel]

I think that's a reference to something said beforehand, I'm not sure, it sounds familiar.

EDIT: And WHAT? Beatrice committed suicide?!

In this case would Kuma = Beatrice or just Walgaria?

[Nadeor]

Wait...Guys I think we've got something wrong here
I know that after we've experienced some weird translations (Ru-Do-Ru-Bu = Rudolf but not Rudolph)
We've got one definitely wrong in EP3

Walgiria is not supposed to be Walgiria
After using some translation tools and consulting with my japanese teacher
I came down to the conclusion that Walgiria actually does have an English name

"Valkyria" or just "Valkyr"

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel

EDIT: And WHAT? Beatrice committed suicide?!

It's not outright stated but yes from how Battler sees it Beato's mother(?) "Beatrice" killed herself

Originally Posted by Nadeor

"Valkyria" or just "Valkyr"

Yes, that's true.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Nadeor

Wait...Guys I think we've got something wrong here
I know that after we've experienced some weird translations (Ru-Do-Ru-Bu = Rudolf but not Rudolph)
We've got one definitely wrong in EP3

Walgiria is not supposed to be Walgiria
After using some translation tools and consulting with my japanese teacher
I came down to the conclusion that Walgiria actually does have an English name

"Valkyria" or just "Valkyr"

This is not possible because she herself mentioned that her name is not valkyria:

Spoiler for game text:

Walgiria: 「…ベアトリーチェはかつて私の名でしたが、譲ってしまった今、私は名前を持ちません。

………ならば仮の名でも名乗りましょう。

……ワルギリアス。

…いえ、ワルギリアではいかがです？」

Battler: 「ワルギリア。

ワルキュリア？

神話の女神の名前だっけか。」

Walgiria: 「いいえ。

ベアトリーチェの元へ導く者、という意味です。

……煉獄山の頂上にて待つあの子の元へあなたを導く。

その案内人に相応しい名前でしょう。」

When Walgiria introduce herself, Battler repeats her name then says "Walkyria?" as he thinks he misheard or figured out the origin of the word.
Yet, Walgiria says it is not the case.

Using the romaji alone, we got warugiria. As result, the only possible room for doubt it the "l" that can be a "ru" (which is not exactly that great from the reference perspective) and the i that can turn into Y.
Also, until they went very wrong, a "va" would need the katakana "ba" "バ".

I think the Wa (ワ) and Gi (ギ) confirm pretty much the name was not intended to be walkyria/valkyria.
Also, Nadeor, it wouldn't be possible to remove the "ia" in the end.

[Nadeor]

k my mistake
just a thought, that's all XD

[nagare]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I think the Wa (ワ) and Gi (ギ) confirm pretty much the name was not intended to be walkyria/valkyria.
Also, Nadeor, it wouldn't be possible to remove the "ia" in the end.

Just a thought: Valkyrie could be spelled many different ways depending on your source, and there's several named valkyries in Norse mythology with different purposes and names.

eg: (I'm sure there's more ways than this to spell valkyrie)
valkyrie, valkyr, valkyria, valkyrja, valkyrjur, walküre, wælcyrige

Some named:
valfreyja, Hrist, Mist, Herja,
Hlökk, Geiravör, Göll, Hjörþrimul,
Gunnr, Herfjötur, Skuld, Geirönul,
Skögul and Randgníð. Ráðgríðr, Göndul,
Svipul, Geirskögul, Hildr and Skeggöld,
Hrund, Geirdriful, Randgríðr and Þrúðr,
Reginleif and Sveið, Þögn, Hjalmþrimul,
Þrima and Skalmöld.

In Japanese, ワルキューレ is a common way to spell Valkyrie.
I choose Valkyria in my notes as it was the quickest way for me to remember her name (no other real reason) I did find it odd that her name is the only norse mytho source in the game so there might be something closer in a story I'm not familiar with in the old testament or other old stories not contained in the Bible where Ryukishi is pulling many of his magic entities. But since I don't know what the source of her name is, for now, I'm just looking through norse mythology to find a name that resembles hers.

@ Kets / post #322

Spoiler:

I'm sure that's a reference to either my EP 02 or EP 03, part 1 notes.
Klashikari brought a point that Gohda shouldn't be labeled innocent yet which might be true. I can't remember the exact reason why I labeled him innocent in EP 02+ (it's been too long). Looking through the notes I took, I think it was b/c of his early death in EP 01 and his confirm-able death in EP 02. I need to replay EP 01 and EP 02 to refresh my memory if there was anything else (in my notes, it seems like I pinned his innocence in EP 01 - I can't remember the reason why at the moment). If not than post #305 is a good follow up that I need to look into.

As for Shannon's innocence, in EP 01 she couldn't have been involved in any of the murders past night one as with only half of her face torn off she couldn't fake her death. In EP 02, if the murderer is the same person as EP 01 then Shannon is innocent. Of course if this assumption turns out to be incorrect, then it throws out her innocence the window. Currently, I see no leads to believe otherwise.

In EP 03, I'm fairly sure the murderer is a different person than EP 01 and 02 (at least from night 2 onward). So all those alibi goes out the window for this EP. But as of right now, both Shannon and Gohda are dead according to Beatrice from night 1 so they cannot be involved in any of the future murders in this episode. Night 1 murderer, imo, seems likely to be the same person as from the previous 2 episodes. There are too many things odd about this murder that point to various possible mistakes. IMO, possibly 3 of the 6 rooms may not have been true locked/closed rooms. Beatrice never confirms that they are in red, we are just led to believe so from Ronove and Valkyria.

[Klashikari]

Indeed. Basically her name seems to be a derived term for Valkyria, but she herself says it isn't the case, despite Battler pretty much jumped on the gun, thinking she is using the Norse mythology.
You can simply say that either Ryukishi took another type of term resembling a lot to Valkyrie, or he simply changed it. For the time being, I think there isn't much possible way to call her anyway, so either the strict romaji or the possible reference which is valkyria.

[Rias]

It's becuase ワルギリア refers herself as a guide that I still think it's actually "Virgil"...the guide who guides Dante in Inferno.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante%27s_Inferno#Inferno

As for the counting problem of 18, which ultimately leads to Eva-Beatrice's "Who killed Nanjo?" question,

Spoiler for ep3...with a bit repeating from others.:

A lot of the red text seems to be time dependent, which derived from the question, "why would Beato hesistate stating the "there isn't a 19th person" line at start, then states it later?" A loophole is, if certain people are dead at the time that the line was said, then it would be okay. For example, let's say originally there's 19 people on the island. Then someone dies, let's say Kinzo died of old age/disease. Thus there's only 18 people on the island at that moment. In other words, dead people don't count as a person.

That's another loophole in the Nanjo mystery besides the "dead people don't count" theory. Eva-beatrice lists all the people who are dead, and claims there isn't a 19th person. Let's not argue that "dead people don't count" for now, and assume that they do count. Question is again, the timing of the red text. Eva-beatrice never said that when Nanjo was being killed, the other 14 is all still alive. From Ronove/Beato's red text, we only know that the servents, Ginzo, Maria and Roza are confirmed dead at that moment. That leaves alot of suspects out there...after all, ep3 does point towards Eva family being the culprits...

Of course, the TIPS entry for executed Nanjo is also kinda fishy...

[tobiast88]

Virgil fits, both for the meaning and the katakana... But it's a guy's name. How about we agree to use Virigilia?

[ClockWorkAngel]

What happen to Hideyoshi and George? How did they die?

Yes, red text has way too many loopholes.

The culprit might change all the time, or atleast this time Eva seemed to have stopped that from happening.

[chronotrig]

Spoiler for Umi3:

Actually, it seems very close to impossible for it to be anyone of the 18.
Eva Beato says that everyone except Jessica, Battler, and Eva are dead. And she says that the three of them are all innocent.
But as Klash said, if any of the corpses were thrown off the island, it wouldn't matter whether the red text included dead people or not.

[Nadeor]

Guess you're right, but let me get this straight
Eva Beato is on Beato's side? Right or wrong
Walgiria and Ange is on Battler and Bern's side? Right or wrong
Ronove is somewhat independent? Right or wrong
The controller of the Siestas is Beato as well? Right or wrong

[ClockWorkAngel]

Spoiler for walgiria, Ronove, Siesta etc, end of episode 3:

Walgiria is actually on Beato's side, she doesn't help Battler, but often gives us some tidbits of info. She also invokes some Beato character developtment!

Ronove is on Beato's side but stands quite neutral.

Beato most likely controls the Seistas, seeing as they're magical weapons.

[Nadeor]

Spoiler for walgiria, end ep3:

So Walgiria doesn't help Battler? Let me guess she doesn't quite help Beato as well, right?

(What's the point of having the SOPs when you can have someone to kill regardless of the sins? XD)

[Asashio123]

Originally Posted by Nadeor

(What's the point of having the SOPs when you can have someone to kill regardless of the sins? XD)

Because they're moe... and piercing people is cool?

Besides, everyone sins in some way, so the Stakes can pretty much kill anyone (unless they have strong magical abilities).

[ClockWorkAngel]

The "sin" is simply adding a hope factor to the whole thing.

Really, the whole subject of "sin" is complete rubbish, there are so many ways to say what is sin, and more than likely it's a bid for the western appeal Kinzo loves so much, it goes in theme.

Innocence proves nothing!

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel

The "sin" is simply adding a hope factor to the whole thing.

Really, the whole subject of "sin" is complete rubbish, there are so many ways to say what is sin, and more than likely it's a bid for the western appeal Kinzo loves so much, it goes in theme.

Innocence proves nothing!

You got one other problem with the sin;
no one get the same value, so someone might somethig sinful and a other not.
So who juge the sin?