(L+CR) Space Battleship Yamato 2199 (movie & TV)

[August138]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

@August138:

You're really arguing about nothing here, considering Keroko's stance. He knows that the sounds are from the original. All he's saying is that he finds the use of old-school sfx wierd. Nothing more, nothing less. And I can relate because I actually have a similar feeling on the matter: hearing the old-school sfx is difficult to describe at worst.

And who says it's ruining Keroko's enjoyment?

We're enjoying the anime regardless of our opinion of the sfx, which we both think isn't a bad thing at all, just odd. It's not as if we're saying "OMFG OLD SCHOOL SFX SHITSUXX".

Not arguing; I'm just posting facts, and speaking in general terms; and just him, directly, how he saw 2199 (DVD, BD, or online). Legitimate statements of fact, and legitimate questions. Again, no argument from me, and no argument towards him. The facts speak for themselves, and I said that he's entitled to his opinion. Please don't make this more than what it is — nor is there any need to come to the defence, because I wasn't attacking him. And that goes likewise in any backlash towards me, which is unnecessary. Thanks for understanding!

With that being said, if you post something in a forum (I don't think I have to explain what a forum is), state your point clearly, but expect contrary comments and opinions — everyone has different tastes and ideas.

And just for the record, I have been watching Sci-Fi Anime since the '70s, and have been a Yamato fan since 1975 (four years before it came to the US as "Star Blazers").

Cheers!

[August138]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The earlier mention of Akira Hio's version of the manga leads me again to the path of one Mamoru Kodai.

We won't be seeing Harlock, that's for sure, because Leiji Matsumoto owns him (under the Toei banner), lock, stock, and eyepatch.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The Gamilus storyline with more court intrigue.

Spoiler:

That will be happening; including the "Assassination of Dessler" subplot dropped from the original 39 episode plan (but fleshed out in Hio's manga).

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Also the new Earth Cruisers do look a bit like the pirate ship from later in that series.

The UNCN Cruisers were actually cribbed from the opening panels of Matsumoto's 1974 manga version of the Battle of Pluto:



It's right behind Okita's Flagship in the middle panel.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I am guessing the transport ship of the Gamilus on the mechanical section will replace the old Plantary Patrol vessel that looks like a Mazone cruiser.

You mean this one, right?



I imagine so.

[Ithekro]

I noticed something of interest for me. "Wave Motion Shields".

Shields that are definately strong enough to survive a massive energy release, because the blast was really big. As in big enough to probably take out all on Los Angeles County big. Or vaporize much of Switzerland, big.

As for the Pirate....they need not use the name or likeness. The story part in interesting. Those that know will know who that is in reference towards. But without use of the image or name...it won't be infringment. And that is (one of) the original stories. Even if it is using a stole Gamilus ship and somehow starts following/aiding Yamato, only to crash on Iscandar later on before Yamato arrives. that would fit in with Starsha's version of the story. More or less.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by August138

Not arguing; I'm just posting facts, and speaking in general terms; and just him, directly, how he saw 2199 (DVD, BD, or online). Legitimate statements of fact, and legitimate questions. Again, no argument from me, and no argument toward him in general. The facts speak for themselves, and I said that he's entitled to his opinion. Please don't make this more than what it is — nor is there any need to come to the defence, because I wasn't attacking him. And that goes likewise in any backlash towards me, which is unnecessary. Thanks for understanding!

With that being said, if you post something in a forum (I don't think I have to explain what a forum is), state your point clearly, but expect contrary comments and opinions —everyone has different tastes and ideas.

No, no you didn't speak "only facts" you completely misread my posts, either accidentally or purposely (though your consistency in ignoring parts of or entire posts of mine inclines me to the later), and then made a whole bunch of baseless accusations, only to ignore me when I called you out on it and take some moral high stance claim you are only posting 'facts'. Which annoys me.

You did speak to me. Directly. You did not speak only facts. You made assumptions. And you ended up ignoring me.

If you wish to debate things, then by all means I am very happy to debate them. Heck, I want to debate them. It's rare that people debate sound when it comes to anime, while it tends to be rather important to me. But this routine of misreading or ignoring me is making things very, very hard on my end.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I noticed something of interest for me. "Wave Motion Shields".

Shields that are definately strong enough to survive a massive energy release, because the blast was really big. As in big enough to probably take out all on Los Angeles County big. Or vaporize much of Switzerland, big.

Yeah, and given the firepower they wield and are going to face, having shields like that is to be expected. Plus, if you've got the power to pour into a gun, why not make a powerful shield as well?

[August138]

Keroko,
If that's indeed the case, I think you mistook me as well. I don't have time to argue with people about their personal tastes or feelings. Or go back and forth point by point. Because, it's pointless. :P If you felt slighted, I'm sorry, that wasn't my intent.

So, let's move on. Cheers!

[August138]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I noticed something of interest for me. "Wave Motion Shields". Shields that are definately strong enough to survive a massive energy release, because the blast was really big. As in big enough to probably take out all on Los Angeles County big. Or vaporize much of Switzerland, big.

I think that the Intergalactic Ballistic Missile was far stronger than even that. But, that's just what I think. As for the WMS (Wave Motion Shields), Izubuchi said:

Actually, an energy barrier wouldn't really be very Yamato-like. At most, we would be looking at something that coats and strengthens the ship's plating. Something that flares a little when directly hit. As to why we bother with something like this, going forward with the series, Yamato gets into battles with a huge number of ships during its journey. Thinking about it logically, it's impossible! (laughter) Some may say that it's not Yamato if the ship doesn't get messed up all the time, but that's a little different from my image of Yamato. While it needs to be damaged to some extent during battle, first its barrier will need to be destroyed. I mean, in the original series the Gamilas fleet was 3,000 ships! Although I often thought, "Where did the rest of those 3,000 ships go?" (laughter) We are also thinking logically about things like this.

Source: Yamatalk Night Report at Starblazers.com

Originally Posted by Ithekro

As for the Pirate... they need not use the name or likeness. The story part in interesting. Those that know will know who that is in reference towards. But without use of the image or name... it won't be infringment. And that is (one of) the original stories. Even if it is using a stole Gamilus ship and somehow starts following/aiding Yamato, only to crash on Iscandar later on before Yamato arrives. That would fit in with Starsha's version of the story. More or less.

There has been a very litigious history between Nishizaki and Matsumoto, and I think that they would want to steer clear of anything that could instigate such a problem. In fact, during the aforementioned Yamatalk Night, "Behind the guests, three producers fielded Twitter questions. Guests were asked to refrain from tweeting until the end of the talk. The Producers also had final say over what Izubuchi was and wasn't allowed to talk about — they looked pretty nervous most of the time!"

Izubuchi: Nishii had been working at Minami Machi studio during the production of Toward the Terra (this studio has since closed) along with studio Xebec. Actually, Minami Machi had originally been approached before Nishii started working there to see if they could work on Yamato Resurrection. I had originally been in the running to work on Resurrection, but would not have been able to handle both it and 2199. For those who might not know, there were three Yamato projects in production simultaneously —Resurrection, 2199, and the live action movie. While these three productions ultimately weren't completed as expected, the original plan (as agreed to by the distribution agency) was to release 2199 first, then Resurrection, then finally the live-action. But then some problems arose regarding the distribution agency and —

[At this point the Producers stepped in. It was time to change the subject.]

So, we'll see... I can't discount such a thing, but I don't think it will be probable for another "Space Pirate" to come into the scenario. Personally, it would be cool if it were the original Harlock intended for the original 1974 series.

[August138]

Originally Posted by macdawson

Spoiler for Capsule Surprise:

As for the capsule, there's someone inside, presumably Yurisha. Look closely at the picture, you can actually see a female body inside.

Spoiler for Capsule Surprise:

I'll have to give it another look... But, whose body is inside? Again, if it is Yurisha (Ulyssha), this reinforces that Yuki is a host. The Japanese have been comfortable with this plot device for over 45 years since the original ULTRAMAN. In the US version, Ultraman is dormant until he transforms into Ultraman. But, according to the last episode of the Japanese version, the human host was submerged in unconsciousness the entire time. So, we'll see... Thanks for the heads up on that, macdawson!

[Ithekro]

Yuki's little scene on the bridge before Kodai arrives is interesting. It can be taken three ways, I think.


(speculation)
One: She's looking as a recorder (or recording) that we don't get to see what was on it before see closes it. She's assuring herself she'll make it back to Earth.

Two: She's from Iscandar and assures herself she'll make it home. (In this version she would be the younger sister. But we assume she's in the "coffin" that is going to the autopilot room).

Three: She's from Gamilus and assures herself she'll make it home this way. This is based on the green glow.

However...we did not see the "coffin" until after the capsule was brought to Earth. And while we did not see it with Kodai and Shima (in fact they left a grave marker on Mars so this is even more unlikely), that the one in the coffin would be Sasha, while Yuki the the younger sister.

The likely thing is that Yuki is Yuki. A human that may have been the first contact with Iscandar in 2198 (thus putting her in the Yamato Plan from the start). Starsha will assume she's Sasha (again) when they bring the youngest home in her "coffin".


We do find that Okita will lie to keep moral up. He told the UN dignitaries that there were no lost men and women from the Gamilun attack on Yamato. But he does tell Kodai they lost their department head choices in that attack, so they had to fill in quickly with others. Mamoru was to have been the Combat Chief (and maybe even First Officer given how Hijikata and Sanada react to the news) and he was lost earlier at Pluto.

The talk between Hijikata and Okita does tell you a lot of why Hijikata is in command of the Earth Fleet later on. And why he reacts like he does to Kodai and Yamato. At least in the series version. It isn't that way in the film version.


Shima seems to be cured with his luck when it comes to Yuki. So far each time, he's been very friendly, but she's been pissed off by Kodai just prior to that and basically ignores him.

The Niimi, the science officer, seems to have her eyes on him though.

[Roger Rambo]

Interesting that they put a pretty big amount of emphasis on the issue of riots and food shortages. Shit is not peaceful in the underground cities as people await total disaster to come down.

I guess its not that surprising after 8 years of planet bombing.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The Niimi, the science officer, seems to have her eyes on him though.

There's a cougar on the prowl, and I'm not sure if this is a bad thing

I noticed that Yuria (the 17 year old new female character) was also getting checked out on the ride. Though I don't think it was a named character.

Originally Posted by August138

I think that the Intergalactic Ballistic Missile was far stronger than even that. But, that's just what I think. As for the WMS (Wave Motion Shields), Izubuchi said:

Actually, an energy barrier wouldn't really be very Yamato-like. At most, we would be looking at something that coats and strengthens the ship's plating. Something that flares a little when directly hit. As to why we bother with something like this, going forward with the series, Yamato gets into battles with a huge number of ships during its journey. Thinking about it logically, it's impossible! (laughter) Some may say that it's not Yamato if the ship doesn't get messed up all the time, but that's a little different from my image of Yamato. While it needs to be damaged to some extent during battle, first its barrier will need to be destroyed. I mean, in the original series the Gamilas fleet was 3,000 ships! Although I often thought, "Where did the rest of those 3,000 ships go?" (laughter) We are also thinking logically about things like this.

Source: Yamatalk Night Report at Starblazers.com

Well to be fair, it's not like the existence of some kind of exotic extra defensive system would be out of wack, at least as far as the Yamato 2199 continuity goes. Remember back in episode 1 when that shot from the earth ship basically bounced off the hull of that Gamilon ship? As far as I'm aware, Iscandarian technology far exceeds that of Gamilon, so it makes sense that a similar defense based on Iscandar tech would greatly exceed what the Gamilons had.


And as they said. Let's be realistic here. If your ship is outnumbered 3000 to 1, and the enemy has no incentive to not just rush you from all directions with overwhelming numbers...it does seem slightly unbelievable that the Yamato could win the war of attrition. You're just one lucky shot away from getting crippled. And realistically speaking, the Gamilons ARE going to eventually realize that space is big, and they can just start spreading their fleet out so the Yamato can't wipe their fleets out in one shot.

[August138]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Interesting that they put a pretty big amount of emphasis on the issue of riots and food shortages. Shit is not peaceful in the underground cities as people await total disaster to come down. I guess its not that surprising after 8 years of planet bombing.

Rioting and social unrest were also in the original series, specifically in the episode where Aihara is secretly communicating with his parents back on Earth, which is left out of the Star Blazers version.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I noticed that Yuria (the 17 year old new female character) was also getting checked out on the ride. Though I don't think it was a named character.

It's Warrant Officer Toru Hoshina, a member of the Yamato's security division.

[Ithekro]

It was this guy you pointed out oh so many pages ago.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

This guy is going to die.



I don't even know who he is, but I know he's going to die. Out of all the male characters, he's the ONLY one that really looks like a generic, modern male character. He's also the most androgynous looking, bent legs, with a head more rounded than even the other younger male characters, huge soulful eyes and the least well defined chin of the males. Along with his hanging hair hanging down completely, as if pulled down by gravity.

To make matters worse, he's also got a very generic drab grey outfit that doesn't seem to suggest it's tied with any function critical enough to warrant a bright outfit so you could better recognize a main character in it.

This guy exists for one purpose. To die in a sympathetic/tragic manner. It's only a matter of when.

As said:

Originally Posted by August138

It's Warrant Officer Toru Hoshina, a member of the Yamato's security division.

[Endless Soul]

Oh yeah, he's gonna die for sure. That smile on the left is a dead giveaway.

Endless "Random Nickname" Soul

[Ithekro]

(Entirely speculation, since this did not happen in the 1974 anime and probably won't happen this time around either):

It may not be Captain Harlock, but there are options for Mamoru Kodai's story they can follow if the so desire. It actually would be interesting, given how they did Episode One, to have, say a captured Gamilon warship, that interferes in a battle with Yamato and later sails off. There isn't any visual communication, and the voice isn't easily recognized (even by Susumu Kodai) but as they fly, they are off singing that song they sang as Yukikaze flew into the Gamilon lines. Only Okita would recognize what that would mean. The others would only know it is an Earth song.

What little I know of the manga suggests that Okita figured out who "Harlock" was, but never told Kodai or the crew.


But then, they only have 26 episodes to work with. While they can condense the early episodes from the 1974 series, they won't have room for all those 13 extra episodes. At best they could fit in some of the plotlines due to knowing they are going to have 26 episodes from the start (rather than plotting out 39 and getting cut to 26 partway though). And with the rather good sales (3rd presenty on both the DVD and BD rankings) they won't be cut down like the 1974 or 1981 series were cut.

Mamoru could be quite dead for all we know. His story was completely cut from Star Cruiser and he was given the early noble end in the live action film (which is sort of the same reasoning given in both Star Blazers and the 2199 versions of the show). We'll see.

I do like that one change though. That Mamoru and his crew are going off to make sure Okita's ship makes it out of the battle. Rather than the rather hot-headed Mamoru from 1974 that refused to run away and wanted to die in battle instead of take the shame of defeat/retreat. It isn't quite as, I suppose, profound as the Star Blazers reasoning. The "simple matter of mathmatics" line Alex Wildstar gives. But it is close enough. The Admiral needs to survive to defend Earth with the last battleship. That is more important than one destroyer and her crew. At least to Kodai. It is understandable without need for cultural issues.

[Zaku1971]

Originally Posted by August138

It's Warrant Officer Toru Hoshina, a member of the Yamato's security division.

There was a Security Division in the old series? I vaguely remember someone in the brig...

[macdawson]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Yuki's little scene on the bridge before Kodai arrives is interesting. It can be taken three ways, I think.


(speculation)
One: She's looking as a recorder (or recording) that we don't get to see what was on it before see closes it. She's assuring herself she'll make it back to Earth.

Two: She's from Iscandar and assures herself she'll make it home. (In this version she would be the younger sister. But we assume she's in the "coffin" that is going to the autopilot room).

Three: She's from Gamilus and assures herself she'll make it home this way. This is based on the green glow.

However...we did not see the "coffin" until after the capsule was brought to Earth. And while we did not see it with Kodai and Shima (in fact they left a grave marker on Mars so this is even more unlikely), that the one in the coffin would be Sasha, while Yuki the the younger sister.

The likely thing is that Yuki is Yuki. A human that may have been the first contact with Iscandar in 2198 (thus putting her in the Yamato Plan from the start). Starsha will assume she's Sasha (again) when they bring the youngest home in her "coffin".

I think Sasha is dead and burried. Literally. They burried her on Mars and we see the grave after they board the Kirishima, over 3 weeks latter. Digging her up would just be creepy and weird, IMHO. I go with option 1 and that the producers are throwing us a curve ball and planting seeds for future plot. But if Yuki is more than she seems i'd go with the "possession" angle. But as far as we have seen the only weird behaviour was in that short scene, the rest of the time she acts pretty much as you would expect. Loved the scenes on the bridge. Poor Shima, always gets pounded because of Kodai's short fuse. XDDD

We do find that Okita will lie to keep moral up. He told the UN dignitaries that there were no lost men and women from the Gamilun attack on Yamato. But he does tell Kodai they lost their department head choices in that attack, so they had to fill in quickly with others. Mamoru was to have been the Combat Chief (and maybe even First Officer given how Hijikata and Sanada react to the news) and he was lost earlier at Pluto.

The talk between Hijikata and Okita does tell you a lot of why Hijikata is in command of the Earth Fleet later on. And why he reacts like he does to Kodai and Yamato. At least in the series version. It isn't that way in the film version.

Yeah, i initially found it pointless that he was lying to the counsil since he doesn't need to, the Far East Branch has pretty much all the eggs in their basket (ship, personnel, etc,), and approval of the plan seems to be their hands. But then i saw the moral angle. It's like "We're all screwed any way, why tell them that our only hope is now in the hands of kids".

I don't get what you mean about Hijikata's reaction to Kodai. There's no difference in the scenes between the film version and the episodes, at least that i could see. No difference of course, besides the lack of episode title in the end of 1, title card at the start of episode 2, change in title tag at the end of the film (instead of episode 2's title, i'm guessing the card has the movies title) longer credits with the full song and Yuki narrating the episode 3 preview. Have i missed something?

Shima seems to be cured with his luck when it comes to Yuki. So far each time, he's been very friendly, but she's been pissed off by Kodai just prior to that and basically ignores him.

The Niimi, the science officer, seems to have her eyes on him though.

Biggest LOL in that scene. "The Captain's upstairs!" Owned. XDDD
Niimi seems to have eyes on everyone. Most scenes where she appears she is seen looking at someone else as if eavesdropping.

Originally Posted by Zaku1971

There was a Security Division in the old series? I vaguely remember someone in the brig...

Not as far as i can remember. I think any arrests were done by the combat section. But it makes sense that there's a specific deppartment to handle security.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

It was this guy you pointed out oh so many pages ago.



As said:

Really? You sure? His hair an expression doesn't seem nearly as sad or somber, or overall shout out "Gamilon bullets, please hit me in the face!"

I think they redesigned him a bit, or this is really just a random backround character sizing up Yuria.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I do like that one change though. That Mamoru and his crew are going off to make sure Okita's ship makes it out of the battle. Rather than the rather hot-headed Mamoru from 1974 that refused to run away and wanted to die in battle instead of take the shame of defeat/retreat. It isn't quite as, I suppose, profound as the Star Blazers reasoning. The "simple matter of mathmatics" line Alex Wildstar gives. But it is close enough. The Admiral needs to survive to defend Earth with the last battleship. That is more important than one destroyer and her crew. At least to Kodai. It is understandable without need for cultural issues.

I liked that to. Made him seem like a wild/crazy self indulgent maniac and more like someone who was making an informed decision, and understood the weight of it.

[macdawson]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Really? You sure? His hair an expression doesn't seem nearly as sad or somber, or overall shout out "Gamilon bullets, please hit me in the face!"

I think they redesigned him a bit, or this is really just a random backround character sizing up Yuria.
I liked that to. Made him seem like a wild/crazy self indulgent maniac and more like someone who was making an informed decision, and understood the weight of it.

Characters tend to look different from their design stage to the actual animation. But yeah, that's him, the shoot me in the face guy (sorry, haven't memorized all the new characters names yet. XD )

As for Mamoru's attitude adjustment, i always liked the Star Blazers dialogue a lot more than the original Yamato one. I do get the japanese mentality and all but today it just would not fly, especially if you have international viewers in mind. And the reveal from episode 2 about the role Mamoru would play in Yamato shines brand new light in the dialogue exchange between Mamoru and Okita. Despite what Susumu might think, i believe Mamoru was fully aware of what Operation M was all about, seing has he has an active role in the Yamato project. And he sees that it's more important that Okita makes it back to Earth and command the project than him who is just one of the cogs in the mechanism that is the Yamato Project.

And while were in the subject of Mamoru... is it just me or does that crew member in the shelter at the start of episode 2 look a lot like Mamoru in Be Forever Yamato, design wise? Every time i look at the guy that just pop at me. XDDD

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by macdawson

Characters tend to look different from their design stage to the actual animation. But yeah, that's him, the shoot me in the face guy (sorry, haven't memorized all the new characters names yet. XD )

Most of the other design sheets have still been pretty close to the final design. I think they just decided his character sheet was a bit to bland, generic and "I'm the guy who gets shot in the face" for him to really be connected with by the audience.

I think that's why he has a livelier appearance, and his first on screen introduction is politely but earnestly checking out Yuria. It makes us feel more connected with him, and it will make us more sad when he bites the bullet...to his face.

Spoiler for checking out people in public:

...man, I'm a total asshole, aren't I? I've already decided this guy is going to die!

[Endless Soul]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

...man, I'm a total asshole, aren't I? I've already decided this guy is going to die!

Well, for what it's worth, we know that the crew of BBY-01 has a very high mortality rate. I think it's a safe bet that most of the people in that shuttle won't make it to the end of the series.

Endless "Number's up" Soul

[macdawson]

Actually, if we consider the original series, though mortality was high (This is mostly evident in the end of the Rainbow Galaxy Battle), as far as the main characters are concerned, none of them died in Battle. Yabu died in Iscandar but his screen time in Y2199 has probably already exceeded what he had during the whole series back in 1974. XD Okita dies (not really) but as a result of his radiation sickness. But i'm guessing with the increase in characters, there's a big chance at least a few will die. Movie 2 will have at least one casualty in Kato's squadron. (After what Kato told him in the hangar, Kodai must be thinking "Oh, sh*t!" when that fighter is shot.)