2012-01-31, 06:05 | Link #221 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I agree with you on ViVid. It's one of the reasons of why i'm enjoying more the tournament Arc, the pacing is still kinda slow but at least they now spent the chapters actually doing significant stuff xD EDIT: Page claimed for Frieza ....and Bushido-chan xD
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2012-01-31, 06:09 | Link #222 | |
On a mission
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I'm quite sure someone out there agrees, though I suppose there is some inconsistency running around. As for bashing before the finish line, it can't be helped. As I said before, patience is earned, not given by default. For example, the first season of Nanoha had certain elements that had me going to buy it time to get better. If Force hasn't managed to come up with compelling things at this point, then it might just not be worth it for some to invest their time into it. Except complaining on the internet. That always has a cost of 0 for some reason.
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2012-01-31, 09:39 | Link #224 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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So will watching Cypha get beaten up.
And I dunno, it has been a couple years since he became the lead. Even if he really gets going now, making the audience wait that long is still grounds for some complaint. I mean, if they don't make it enjoyable for me, the guy reading the story without paying for it, then what has this company come to!? Quote:
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2012-01-31, 12:31 | Link #225 |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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You say 'a couple of years' as if we've had weekly installments of the manga. But even putting that aside, no fleshing out? Given all the stuff I listed before, I'm not buying that.
I can understand not liking what you read. Really, I have no problems with it, but a lot of the of the things you don't like you try and to claim to be flaws of the story, rather than just something you don't like. For example, you just don't care much for Thoma. And that's fine. But to then claim that he's had no development or even fleshing out when you can make an entire list of both? Not buying it. |
2012-01-31, 13:00 | Link #226 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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I say it because its been two years in the real world. That's a while to be stuck with a main character they can't be bothered to make interesting.
And no, I just dislike him because he's a flawed character. A lot of stuff in Force is flawed. If something good happened, I would be happy to say so. Please don't play the whiny fan card into an intelligent discussion. |
2012-01-31, 13:37 | Link #228 | |||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I'm crossing my fingers to see Quattro-levels of karmic payback to fall onto her xD!
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I hit my head in frustration at seeing lots of people holding the idiot ball but i also found interesting stuff like the conflict between the Huckebein and Vandin Corp.(i like "Evil versus Evil" confrontations xD). And found cool stuff while seeing Veyron and Curren fighting. It takes a lot more to say the manga is "good" but is at least entertaining.
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2012-01-31 at 15:54. |
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2012-01-31, 13:51 | Link #229 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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I play the 'whiny fan card' because I continuously keep asking you to back up your claims, and you continuously fail to provide. What little you do is riddled with holes, which I will keep poking at, no matter how much you ignore it. |
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2012-01-31, 15:44 | Link #230 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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Because all your examples of him having character are what powers he has and motivations, and some of the latter haven't been totally explored yet. Those aren't fleshing him out in and of themselves. Can you name some personality traits he has on their own?
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2012-01-31, 16:03 | Link #231 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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* Is a caring and somewhat selfless boy who wants to be independent so no more close ones get hurt. To the point he can't allow himself be adopted by a caring family and is willing to kill himself for the well-being of others despite Fortis's arguings. * Is divided between the new, caring people who received him with open arms and the Huckebein whom he feels identified with. * Show respect for the people who get closer to him and is also a responsible young man. Rescued Lily when he found her and does his best effort to take care of her since. A bit of a messiah-like character, probably not the most plausible or likable character traits out there, but traits nontheless.
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2012-01-31, 16:32 | Link #232 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Powers, while in and of themselves are not are part of a character, the method of obtaining them and the effects they have are. In Thoma's case, the powers not only led to him meeting Lily and gaining someone to take care of, but also led to the exploration of his past, his face to face meeting with death, recognizing that power can have devastating consequences and his new goal of mastering it lest he hurts those he loves. You want growth? In not even twenty chapters Thoma went from a boy who was just out there to put his past to rest and join the Nakajima's, to a boy who had to protect a girl, to a boy with a pained past faced with the possible perpetrators right in front of him, to a boy faced with his own death and the choice to become a murderer or die, to the boy who took the bullet and decided his own life was not worth the life of others, to a boy who was saved and now works his hardest so that his powers will never hurt those he loves. Seriously, looking back on things Thoma is a freaking maelstrom of character growth compared to most characters in the Nanohaverse. You want personality traits? He's one of the bravest guys out there, knowingly choosing his own death over the pains his survival would cause others. That's an act of bravery and sacrifice right up there with Reinforce. He's persistent. Even in the face of all he's been through, he's still pushing on. He's kind and selfless, taking care of people he barely even knows even at the cost of his own life, and asking for no reward. He's understanding, rather than accuse the Hucks of pure evil or taking the moral high ground because he took the choice they didn't dare to, he understands what they've gone through. One can argue that this understanding goes beyond simple understanding and into the realm of naivety (and I would be inclined to agree, a personality trait doesn't always need to be a positive one after all) He's stubborn, rather than just letting the past slip away quietly and live with the Nakajima's, he goes of on a trip, breaks into ruins and still decides to try and solve everything himself even though he's in waaay over his head. |
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2012-01-31, 17:14 | Link #233 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Touma is not one of the things that Force is getting wrong.
Neither is it wrong that the Huckebein have been so successful up to this point, or that Curren is so powerful. The existence of a form of energy inimical to all known forms of life, magic and technology is not necessarily a bad idea. As I've pointed out before, it's basically like the Seithr from BlazBlue; a form of energy similar to but very different from True Magic. Whatever creatures it doesn't kill, it tends to mutate into something stronger and meaner. If there was a failing with the Huckebein, it was making so many of them that none of them are getting properly fleshed out, such as explaining where they came from, how they ended up like this, and what they're trying to do. This on top of introducing far too many new terms with no real explanation for what they mean. "Zero Effect", "Reactor", "Reactor Plug", "Strosek", "Divider"... The far-too-sudden and very jarring appearance of new weapons and androids doesn't help. |
2012-02-01, 09:57 | Link #236 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Just to add a little thought, Touma is also not completely messiah like, as he still cannot let go of the past and thus like mentioned before, decides to go on a journey and get involve in all the things that is happening now. Not only that, the rage he have shown when he thought Veyron was the one whom destroyed his village shows that he is lethal as compared to the other main characters so far on the reason of vengence.
He might be a little mellow now since he fears his own power but nobody knows what will happen when the real killers appear. This is a guy whom live with a dagger alone before meeting Subaru when his village is destroyed so I think it might be interesting when the real killers appear. |
2012-02-01, 11:29 | Link #237 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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He could always turn out to be a Stepford Smiler, I suppose.
It occurred to me a little while ago - I was complaining about him considering the Huckebein his friends after only knowing them for a little while, but maybe that's intentional? Like he was so affected by his backstory that he'll latch onto anyone who's nice to him at all? Or something like that. |
2012-02-01, 11:52 | Link #238 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Not really considering them as friends, but more of the "I feel your pain" thing. Unlike the others, Touma could understand the urge that they have and is thus more sympathatic to them. Not that he will join them or agree with what they do, but he could more or less see things in their perspective due to his carrying the virus as well.
Stepford Smiler is more like what Hayate used to be. Touma is more like a time-bomb which might explode at any time if he finds the real killer. |
2012-02-01, 12:04 | Link #239 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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Personally, I could see the Hucks getting justifiably pissed when he says that, since he's only gone berserk for five minutes that wasn't the Book triggering its defenses, during which he only almost killed someone. So he doesn't really know.
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2012-02-01, 12:07 | Link #240 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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He knows how it feels if one do not kill to subdue the virus. It might not be long, but Touma is not an idiot and he can relate to why the Hucks decide to kill. Not all would choose to kill himself when given the choice to kill others to deal with the virus.
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