New Code Geass Project Launched

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

I sometimes feel that Code Geass should have been given a 3rd season instead of a movie. When they announced that Code Geass(involving Lelouch) would be coming back in 2016(The date of the announcement), I was excited about it. However, once it was revealed to be a movie(instead of a TV series), I was disappointed as I saw it as just wrapping things up instead of flushing new ideas for the direction of the series.

When I watched the last episode of the TV series in 2008, I was angry that Lelouch was killed off in the manner in which was presented. I haven't followed up on any of the related Code Geass since the last episode of Code Geass R2 aired. What I would love to see is Code Geass: Oz the Reflection get made into an anime or OVA series. There is so much to Code Geass that could be flushed out. I hope we get to see more Code Geass related spin offs instead of just a simple movie.

I'm also of the opinion that it should've been a third season and I'm not exactly convinced that they can satisfactorily conclude this series within a single movie. These are my honest thoughts.

I'm half-expecting them to troll us and say something like "this may be the end of the Lelouch Saga of Code Geass, but it doesn't mean this is the end of Code Geass in its entirety." Then bam! They announce a spinoff series that focuses on a new cast of characters or a sequel that focuses on descendants of the original cast.

I was surprisingly not angry when they killed off Leouch in R2. I thought it to be a fitting ending and the ultimate atonement he could pay for the many sins and betrayals he's committed throughout the series. It was also a nice callback to one of his most iconic quotes and that being "the only ones who should kill, are those who are prepared to be killed." Everything came full circle in the end and that made for a truly entertaining and emotional ending. It wasn't a realistic ending tho, but that's another discussion entirely.

That said, I didn't actually think he died btw as I was one of those who firmly believed in the code theory and I still do. The compilation movies established an alternate timeline/route and they went above and beyond to confirm that Lelouch died there, but I'm still not convinced that he died in the original timeline.

[saya_leviathan]

The movie already out in Japan. For American fans, Funimation announced that movie will be screened in May.


And there's this CM:

Spoiler for Thumbnail is very spoiler-y. Click at your own risk!:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/U4-klNK2gCw

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

The poster is also updated.

Spoiler for Also spoiler but it's already expected on who's in it.:

[GeassedbyLelouch]

Originally Posted by MK-95-

That said, I didn't actually think he died btw as I was one of those who firmly believed in the code theory and I still do.

The anime itself makes it impossible for him to have a code since that would have violated the established rules.
On top of that the show staff have officially confirmed that he is truly completely dead. They've even explicitly denied core points of code theory.
If you want to read more about this, there's this information database which gathered all the official statements and shows how and when the anime itself contradicts code theory

[MK-95-]

Nice, now I just have to wait a few hours till the spoilers and summaries come pouring in. I don't think I can wait till May, so I'll gladly take those spoilers. lol

Thanks for the heads up btw.

Originally Posted by GeassedbyLelouch

The anime itself makes it impossible for him to have a code since that would have violated the established rules.
On top of that the show staff have officially confirmed that he is truly completely dead. They've even explicitly denied core points of code theory.
If you want to read more about this, there's this information database which gathered all the official statements and shows how and when the anime itself contradicts code theory

It amazes me that you still won't let this go. I don't agree with you, life goes on and the world didn't end. Sigh

[n0m@n]

So apparently...

Spoiler for movie:

Lelouch revives as the movie title and recent trailer shows.
And his new knightmare is two-seater again.
And it ends with him and C.C departing together. Lelouch called himself L.L. at the end since he is Lelouch Lamperouge.

Lelouch x C.C. confirmed.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by saya_leviathan

The movie already out in Japan. For American fans, Funimation announced that movie will be screened in May.


And there's this CM:

Spoiler for Thumbnail is very spoiler-y. Click at your own risk!:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/U4-klNK2gCw

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

The poster is also updated.

Spoiler for Also spoiler but it's already expected on who's in it.:

Well damn..............

Spoiler for Oh well.....:

He does have a code.

[devilo96]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Well damn..............

Spoiler for Oh well.....:

He does have a code.

So he really become immortal afte our boy kill his dad

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by devilo96

So he really become immortal afte our boy kill his dad

I guess so.

Spoiler for Sunrise:

I was convinced he was dead...but Code Geass is owned by Sunrise, so no character is ever really dead.

[MK-95-]

^I'm seeing the spoilers popping up on 4chan, but since this is 4chan we're talking about, I'll just wait until we have confirmation from a more reliable source. I'll save all my comments about that particular topic until then.

Anyhoo, I'll be back in like 8-9 hrs. Seeya peeps, I'm out.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I guess so.

Spoiler for Sunrise:

I was convinced he was dead...but Code Geass is owned by Sunrise, so no character is ever really dead.

When the original TV series ended in September 2008, everyone on the board suspected that Lelouch obtained the Code from Charles. Lelouch's geass was in both eyes, making it possible for Charles to slap The Code around his son's neck. The during the Zero Requiem, Suzaku drives his sword through Lelouch's heart, activating the Code. The biggest hint was when Nunnally touched his hand and saw the flashback of Lelouch's memories. This was similar at the end of Season one when Lelouch touch C.C.'s hand and saw the flashback of her memories. Thus, the original notion that Leouch inherit the Code was correct.

[GeassedbyLelouch]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

The biggest hint was when Nunnally touched his hand and saw the flashback of Lelouch's memories. This was similar at the end of Season one when Lelouch touch C.C.'s hand and saw the flashback of her memories.

That's not what happened.
The anime itself shows us this in several different ways.
The way this scene was shown doesn't match earlier known code visions, C.C. herself contradicts this with her words in earlier episodes.
And when you watch that scene you'll see that Nunnally's reaction, including an audible gasp, starts BEFORE the images are shown, so she can't be reactiong TO the images. She doesn't see them.

And not only does the anime make this clear, even the show staff have explicitly denied that this had anything to do with codes or geass.
In Mook Animedia (28 January 2009, p.89-90) there was an interview which explicitly explained that Nunnally was NOT seeing visions:
"How did Nunnally managed to realize Lelouch true intention, when she touched his hand at the end?"
"The way Nunnally can tell that someone is lying, just like she was able to tell that Lohmeyer was lying to her, is that she can feel the hand of the person she is talking to is sweating or lightly trembling. It's nothing like Geass or some special ability like that."
"Yes. So, she simply came to conclusion [Lelouch was lying] by herself, because of this ability."
"She is Marianne's daughter and Lelouch's little sister. Two months have passed since that defeat of Schneizel and for this two months she's been wondering constantly about what had happened, like "why it happened?" and so on. So when she touched Lelouch's hand at the end she felt that he is calm, she put the two and two together and realized the truth. Of course, we know that in anime, it's hard to explain things like that, but yeah, please accept it like this kind of "romantic" idea we had."

Originally Posted by darthfury78

Thus, the original notion that Leouch inherit the Code was correct.

Not at all, this new movie completely contradicts that theory.
The movie very cleary shows us that

Spoiler for movie spoilers:

1) Lelouch was NOT immortal at the end of R2
2) Lelouch did NOT have a code at the end of R2 in the way that the show defined codes
3) Lelouch was NOT the cart driver at the end of R2
4) Lelouch was NOT alive at the end of R2
5) Lelouch is still dead at the start of the mpovie, years after his death. He needed to be revived by others.

So, while the movie does include winks to the debunked fan theory, and even gathered some inspiration from it to create this new story, it totally contradicts code theory as it was formulated, i.e. a theory about the fate of Lelouch at the end of R2.

[GeassedbyLelouch]

Originally Posted by MK-95-

I don't agree with you

That's the whole point.
This isn't about headcanons or opinions, it's about canon.
You can't say "in canon, Lelouch is a Japanese schoolgirl", because he isn't. That's factually incorrect, and not a matter of opinions.
So "agreeing" isn't even a factor here.
You're free to CHOOSE to create a headcanon about him being immortal at the end of R2, just like you're free to pretend he's a Japanese schoolgirl. But that doesn't make those things true or canon.

On top of that, this movie entirely debunks code theory.
It's quite amusing to see conspiracy theorists on 4chan try to spin this as if code theory is correct. They'll all end up with shame red on their cheeks when they do see the movie.
Code theory as it was proposed, saying that Lelouch was immortal at the end of R2, is completely contradicted now.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by GeassedbyLelouch

That's not what happened.
The anime itself shows us this in several different ways.
The way this scene was shown doesn't match earlier known code visions, C.C. herself contradicts this with her words in earlier episodes.
And when you watch that scene you'll see that Nunnally's reaction, including an audible gasp, starts BEFORE the images are shown, so she can't be reactiong TO the images. She doesn't see them.

And not only does the anime make this clear, even the show staff have explicitly denied that this had anything to do with codes or geass.
In Mook Animedia (28 January 2009, p.89-90) there was an interview which explicitly explained that Nunnally was NOT seeing visions:
"How did Nunnally managed to realize Lelouch true intention, when she touched his hand at the end?"
"The way Nunnally can tell that someone is lying, just like she was able to tell that Lohmeyer was lying to her, is that she can feel the hand of the person she is talking to is sweating or lightly trembling. It's nothing like Geass or some special ability like that."
"Yes. So, she simply came to conclusion [Lelouch was lying] by herself, because of this ability."

I haven't seen the new movie yet, but I have seen the wealth of spoilers on the chans and the other usual sources.
It would seem that prior to this movie, your assessment is correct.
However, this movie has retconned that (which is typical of Sunrise for extending and reviving a franchise).
So while Okouchi is VERY clear that Lelouch died at the end of R2, and Taniguchi agreed that he was dead, but did NOT say whether he had a code or not (clearly leaving the show open for future projects), all we can say is that if Lelouch indeed does have a code at the start of this movie, then the end of R2 (and the R2 recap) has been reinterpreted NOW to change the original ending.

Personally, I don't care either way since whether had a code from the beginning of the movie, or he gets a code in this movie, by the time this movie is over, Lelouch is alive, has a Code, and is with CC.
No denying that anymore.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by GeassedbyLelouch

That's not what happened.
The anime itself shows us this in several different ways.
The way this scene was shown doesn't match earlier known code visions, C.C. herself contradicts this with her words in earlier episodes.
And when you watch that scene you'll see that Nunnally's reaction, including an audible gasp, starts BEFORE the images are shown, so she can't be reactiong TO the images. She doesn't see them.

And not only does the anime make this clear, even the show staff have explicitly denied that this had anything to do with codes or geass.
In Mook Animedia (28 January 2009, p.89-90) there was an interview which explicitly explained that Nunnally was NOT seeing visions:
"How did Nunnally managed to realize Lelouch true intention, when she touched his hand at the end?"
"The way Nunnally can tell that someone is lying, just like she was able to tell that Lohmeyer was lying to her, is that she can feel the hand of the person she is talking to is sweating or lightly trembling. It's nothing like Geass or some special ability like that."
"Yes. So, she simply came to conclusion [Lelouch was lying] by herself, because of this ability."
"She is Marianne's daughter and Lelouch's little sister. Two months have passed since that defeat of Schneizel and for this two months she's been wondering constantly about what had happened, like "why it happened?" and so on. So when she touched Lelouch's hand at the end she felt that he is calm, she put the two and two together and realized the truth. Of course, we know that in anime, it's hard to explain things like that, but yeah, please accept it like this kind of "romantic" idea we had."



Not at all, this new movie completely contradicts that theory.
The movie very cleary shows us that

Spoiler for movie spoilers:

1) Lelouch was NOT immortal at the end of R2
2) Lelouch did NOT have a code at the end of R2 in the way that the show defined codes
3) Lelouch was NOT the cart driver at the end of R2
4) Lelouch was NOT alive at the end of R2
5) Lelouch is still dead at the start of the mpovie, years after his death. He needed to be revived by others.

So, while the movie does include winks to the debunked fan theory, and even gathered some inspiration from it to create this new story, it totally contradicts code theory as it was formulated, i.e. a theory about the fate of Lelouch at the end of R2.

That first bit is totally debunked by past experiences of the flashbacks, because when Nunnally DID gasp it was AFTER she touched Lelouch's hand and THEN the images started to flood in. Which is NO different to Lelouch's own flashbacks when C.C made physical contact with him either to give him his Geass or to reawaken it in R2. EVERY person who got them including Suzaku only saw them AFTER the Code wielder, or Code Trap in V.V's case, made contact with them to begin with.

I can't believe you'd even continue to say it's debunked at this point either, the freaking mark is around his NECK from when he was grabbed for pete's sake. While we don't know for sure how it happened yet that's a pretty STRONG indicator for the theory so far.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

That first bit is totally debunked by past experiences of the flashbacks, because when Nunnally DID gasp it was AFTER she touched Lelouch's hand and THEN the images started to flood in. Which is NO different to Lelouch's own flashbacks when C.C made contact with him either to give him his Geass or to reawaken it. EVERY person who got them including Suzaku only saw them after the Code wielder made contact with them to begin with.

I can't believe you'd even continue to say it's debunked at this point either, the freaking mark is around his NECK from when he was grabbed for pete's sake. While we don't know for sure how it happened yet that's a pretty STRONG indicator for the theory so far.

Is it possible that Nunnally's natural ability was ENHANCED by the ability of Code bearers when she touched Lelouch?
I ask, because everybody acts like it has to be one or the other, isn't it possible it could have been BOTH which is why she gasps?
Remember, when a Code bearer touches somebody it is not a clear transmission of what is in the Code bearer's memory. It is a disjointed mess.
However, with Nunnally's ability, it is a coherent transmission and she understands everything she sees (which is more than her own ability seems able to do on its own).
I have to agree that the chosen location of Lelouch's Code mark is definitely a call-back to when Charles grabbed him.
So either this is fan-service of a sort, or it is when he got the Code.
Hopefully, Lelouch didn't know he got the code and he THOUGHT he died in Zero Requiem.
If not....then Sunrise has retconned him into the cart driver with CC at the end of R2 even though that is NOT how it ended originally back in 2009 (that we can prove anyway).

[GeassedbyLelouch]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

So while Okouchi is VERY clear that Lelouch died at the end of R2, and Taniguchi agreed that he was dead, but did NOT say whether he had a code or not

That is like saying that they said that water was falling from the sky but not that it was raining.
They are very clear that to them Lelouch's death was THE punishment for his sins. They literally said it was their sense of ethics that he died.
None of their words make any sense if you interpret "death" as "fake death" or "dead for 2 minutes"
The same applies to all the foreshadowing in the series, which the shows staff also point out. Like the “The only ones who should kill, are those who are prepared to be killed.” That doesn't work at all with “The only ones who should kill, are those who are prepared to fake their death.” or “The only ones who should kill, are those who are prepared to be killed for 2 minutes.”

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

all we can say is that if Lelouch indeed does have a code at the start of this movie,

That is most certainly NOT correct.
Not in the way the anime introduced codes.
The movie does introduce new concepts, and these new concepts behave differently than the codes we knew from before. Code theory saif he had a code (as we knew it) at the end of R2 and that Lelouch was immortal. That is NOT correct and the movie shows that.

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

then the end of R2 (and the R2 recap) has been reinterpreted NOW to change the original ending.

New things were introduced.
And yes, some of that was inspired by code theory.
However (!!), code theory itself is shown to be wrong. Code theory said Lelouch was immortal at the end of R2, and that idea is forever and ever contradicted now.
To make a silly analogy, if there was a theory that in Return of the Jedi Han Solo ate a sandwich at the end, and then the Force Awakens comes out and very clearly shows that Han did NOT eat a sandwich, but the new movie later on makes him eat a slice of bread, then the new movie did NOT confirm the old theory. It did, in fact, contradict it, but the sloce of bread was inspired by the diea of the sandwich.

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

by the time this movie is over, Lelouch is alive, has a Code, and is with CC.
No denying that anymore.

Sure, but that wasn't code theory.
Code theory was that Lelouch was immortal at the end of R2 and that he was the cart driver.
And that is shown to be very very wrong

[GeassedbyLelouch]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

when Nunnally DID gasp it was AFTER she touched Lelouch's hand and THEN the images started to flood in.

You say it yourself.
She gasps before the images appear.
She doesn't see anything, that's "non-diegetic" information, i.e. information for the audience which isn't part of the universe. Just like the red rings around geassed people's eyes or the bright red sphere where Rolo's geass is active.
The show staff themseleves EXPLICITLY deny that Nunnally's realization has anything to do with codes. Why do you insist on knowing better than the very people who made the show?

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I can't believe you'd even continue to say it's debunked at this point either, the freaking mark is around his NECK from when he was grabbed for pete's sake.

Aaaand you haven't seen the movie. That's clear.
You are being misled by nonsense on 4chan and a cleverly made teaser to makje people talk about the movie.
That symbol is NOT the code as you know it from R2.
At the end of R2 Lelouch does NOT have the code, the movie makes that clear.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

While we don't know for sure how it happened yet that's a pretty STRONG indicator for the theory so far.

We DO know what happened. The movie is out!
We DO know that code theory is now, once again, contradicted by the published material.
Code theory which says that Lelouch had a code (in the R2 sense) and was immortal and was the cart driver at the end of R2 is wiped off the table, thown on a garbage pile and put on fire. It's dead.
Code theory was never "he's totally dead now and doesn't have a code now, but maybe one day they'll make a sequel where things are different"

[KrimzonStriker]

^How they hell does it show that Lelouch doesn't have the code in the beginning of the movie? Right now I'm calling BS about Lelouch having actually permanently died after the end of the last movie/R2 now because if you look at his getup it is similar to the restraining jacket C.C wore. My new theory based off that and piggy backing off the bode theory, is that he did have the code after he died and went into suspended animation afterwards in a container similar to the one he originally found C.C in. That scenario would perfectly align with the code theory in that case.

Cause they could have been lying through their teeth which show creators and people have done before to deceive their audience. Jun Fukuyama freaking said he wouldn't be in this movie yet that's clearly his voice in the promo.

I haven't been to 4chan regarding this movie, I can just see with my own eyes where the mark is and that's a PRETTY big coincidence the mark is where Charles grabbed him.

JAPAN knows what happened, we certainly don't for sure at this point given any news we have would be brief and only trickling in.

[Kusaja]

I have been away from this forum for a long time, yet I think it's worth returning to say a couple of things.

1. As we all discussed at length back in the day, Sunrise always has the last word regarding what does or doesn't happen in Code Geass. Just like any other company can do the same with their property. We talked about Lelouch coming back if that's what Sunrise wanted and, one way or another, that is what has happened.

2. This movie is a direct sequel...not to Code Geass R2, but to the more recent compilation trilogy. In other words, they are saying this film is part of an alternate version of the story. We should not literally interpret the movie as a continuation or retcon of the original story, even if it could feel that way in spirit. It seems they were not entirely clear about the new movie's relationship to R2 before, but since then they have reiterated this a few times before the release date. Basically, they are telling us to see this as a distinct or parallel timeline.

3. Like everyone else here, I haven't personally seen the movie because I am not in Japan. Therefore it doesn't make a lot of sense to engage in a heated debate over information that, even in the best case scene, refers to events that are only summarized in terms of their main points. Many details are going to be confusing or completely lost even if we know the big picture.

4. There is also the additional question of whether the end of this movie means we'll continue to see Lelouch again or not. Not in the merchandise sense, where he is always present, but in terms of any additional stories. Will this just be an extra "grand hurrah" for Lelouch before sending him back into retirement? I can't tell.

[GeassedbyLelouch]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Is it possible that Nunnally's natural ability was ENHANCED by the ability of Code bearers when she touched Lelouch?

No.
Word of God has stated that Nunnally's realization came from her own, codes had nothing to do with it. Not in any way, shape or form

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I ask, because everybody acts like it has to be one or the other, isn't it possible it could have been BOTH which is why she gasps?

Not according to the people who made the show.
They firmy said "It's nothing like Geass or some special ability like that". THEIR WORDS, not mine.

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I have to agree that the chosen location of Lelouch's Code mark is definitely a call-back to when Charles grabbed him.

Yes, of course. I'm not denying that
The movie does other things like that too like

Spoiler for movie spoilers:

dressing Lelouch up as a cart driver, but it's also clear from Lelouch's mental state that he is NOT the cart driver from R2

, those are winks, fan service.

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

So either this is fan-service of a sort,

Bingo!
The movies new ideas are very clearly isnpired by the theory, but they do NOT confirm the theory (which was about the ending of R2 and not about a sequel which didn't exist for 10 years). And the way the movie goes from A to B makes it very clear that the code theory about the end of R2 was wrong, even if the new elements in the new story are isnpired by it.

So, for anyone who is confused, I repeat: code theory was a theory about the fate of Lelouch at the end of R2. Code theory was never a theory about the fate of Lelouch in not yet existing sequels.
The movie proves code theory wrong. But, they do build a bridge to new elements which have been inspired by the old, contradicted theory.

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Hopefully, Lelouch didn't know he got the code and he THOUGHT he died in Zero Requiem.

No worries.
It is as they have been repeating for 10 years. Lelouch is truly dead at the end of R2 and at the start of the movie. He's a corpse. Utterly dead.

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

If not....then Sunrise has retconned him into the cart driver with CC at the end of R2 even though that is NOT how it ended originally back in 2009 (that we can prove anyway).

Nope, no retcon, just new elements which didn't exist back in 2008 and these new elements allow them to write a new story