Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I think the point, is that if RF6 "loses" against the Hucks (even a mutual withdrawal "tie" type situation), it could influence how the higher ups deal with RF6. Whether they allow the organization to continue, to add new bosses or personnel to it. At the least, it might be a slightl mark against Hayate and influence whether she can form RF6 again in the future.

I don't think RF6 as such is ever going to reform, or that Hayate plan to do it.

Hayate did realize she was messing up and wasn't ready for such a role, and Nanoha/Fate have their own jobs they like.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

I think the whole Jail thing would have been a big blow to the Bureau's credibility, though it's never touched upon. That's probably going to be the case here as well.

You mean how the guy who tried to go behind the bureau's back to get more military power endangered his planet?

Yeah, the bureau's credibility probably increased.

[00-Raiser]

I mean how the Bureau got its asses handed to them when Jail attacked the ground forces building, how a high ranking member was corrupt, and how the highest power in the Bureau was responsible for everything.

Of course those latter two things were likely covered up.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

I don't think RF6 as such is ever going to reform, or that Hayate plan to do it.

Hayate did realize she was messing up and wasn't ready for such a role, and Nanoha/Fate have their own jobs they like.

I bet none of us thought RF6 would reform, and then it happened in Force. Never say never.

Also, considering Nanoha and Fate basically told Hayate that they'd be offended if she didn't invite them (while they were all in bed together!), I don't think they care much. Fate and Nanoha still get to do their thing, regardless of whether they are in RF6 or not.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

I mean how the Bureau got its asses handed to them when Jail attacked the ground forces building, how a high ranking member was corrupt, and how the highest power in the Bureau was responsible for everything.

Of course those latter two things were likely covered up.

RF6 got its ass handed to them, i don't think anything really bad happened at HQ.

Regius indeed was the one who went against the Bureau's rules and endangered the planet. That can be turned into the Bureau's favor.

The brains were the highest power in the bureau... 80 years ago. They didn't have any official power anymore.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I bet none of us thought RF6 would reform, and then it happened in Force. Never say never.

Also, considering Nanoha and Fate basically told Hayate that they'd be offended if she didn't invite them (while they were all in bed together!), I don't think they care much. Fate and Nanoha still get to do their thing, regardless of whether they are in RF6 or not.

RF6 wasn't reformed in Force, though Hayate *is* using strings to have her old friends helping. It's a mission, not a real placement.

[Justin_Brett]

I don't think it was ever implied RF6 are reformed for -good- here - just as the best shot the Bureau has of beating these guys. And really, what else is there to add if the guys who fought off the Saint's Cradle couldn't do it with these weapons?

[00-Raiser]

Riot Force 6 was disbanded because it served its purpose. It was formed to deal with the Relic incident, and when that was done with, that was it.

And where's it say the brains didn't have any power? They were still the TSAB High Council. Sure sounds like a powerful position. Regius still answered to them and the 3 Admirals did too I believe.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Riot Force 6 was disbanded because it served its purpose. It was formed to deal with the Relic incident, and when that was done with, that was it.

And where's it say the brains didn't have any power? They were still the TSAB High Council. Sure sounds like a powerful position. Regius still answered to them and the 3 Admirals did too I believe.

Didn't the Brains say that the 3 Legendary ADMIRALS had no power anymore?

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

RF6 wasn't reformed in Force, though Hayate *is* using strings to have her old friends helping. It's a mission, not a real placement.

You're being pedantic. If you gather all your old friends from your unit to do something, that counts as a reformation, even if it is only for one mission. The original formation was only for one mission, too: to deal with the relic lost logia (but secretly to deal with Carim's prophecy). And the same thing happened there; everyone was part of different units and such, and came together for a time before going back (with Hayate pulling some strings). The exact same thing is happening here: everyone is coming from their separate units to join up once more, and will probably go back after.

Hell, the manga keeps referring to them as Section Six. If there were no section six anymore, it wouldn't call them that.

Like I said, you can be pedantic about it(but it's not technically RF6!), but for all intents and purposes, Section Six has reformed to deal with this latest incident. About the only people they don't have is Vice, Alto, Griffith, and the ground support staff, although the Wolfram would have a crew for support. And if they have Lucino, odds are Griffith is around somewhere, or playing house husband because the series hates males, heh. They don't need helicopter transport yet, so I can see Vice and Alto aren't around. Although it might be interesting to see Vice use a Strike Cannon.

[Akiyoshi]

Then lies the posibility of Section Six beign dispbanded after this battle? I mean they ended with their asses handed to them by the enemy, destroying high-value weapon prototypes in the process and capturing none of the targets, in short, they got screwed. Probably Hayate will start struggling with attempts to disband her unit and other divisions wanting to launch more readical or agressive operations to deal with the Huckebein.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Although it might be interesting to see Vice use a Strike Cannon.

Taking into consideration that the Strike Cannon still use the user's mana to power it's batteries and the fact that Vice have half of Teana's power this is pretty much unlikely. A less powerfull sniper-customed version will be very cool, tough.

[00-Raiser]

It probably will be disbanded when the threat has been neutralized like last time. Riot Force 6 didn't get disbanded after their crushing defeat during the JS incident, so I don't see why this would be any different.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

It probably will be disbanded when the threat has been neutralized like last time. Riot Force 6 didn't get disbanded after their crushing defeat during the JS incident, so I don't see why this would be any different.

They didn't now when the threat of Carim's prophecy would end, so they probably just said, "uh, 1 year" to the upper brass. Thus they lasted 1 year. This time around, the threat is more direct (unless there is another prophecy revealed later), so when it's solved, it's solved. Given the job they did vs. the Cradle, the upper brass are probably more willing to let her form it again without limiters in order to get this job done.

Thus, it will be interesting to see if this battle is seen as a "failure" by the upper brass. Or whether they are granted some more leeway, as long as they don't mess up horribly.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

They didn't now when the threat of Carim's prophecy would end, so they probably just said, "uh, 1 year" to the upper brass. Thus they lasted 1 year. This time around, the threat is more direct (unless there is another prophecy revealed later), so when it's solved, it's solved. Given the job they did vs. the Cradle, the upper brass are probably more willing to let her form it again without limiters in order to get this job done.

Thus, it will be interesting to see if this battle is seen as a "failure" by the upper brass. Or whether they are granted some more leeway, as long as they don't mess up horribly.

"You lost half of your fighters to severe injuries, a civilian ended up with a broken neck, and you broke all of your AEC equipment?"

"Uh, yes?"

"Good job."

[Justin_Brett]

Regius probably would have done worse, somehow.

[Kikaifan]

If they're all alive and their ship is intact it's honestly no more than a bruising.

I mean people are making a big deal out of it because it's the main characters losing a fight, but you think no high level mage ever died in the line of duty in the TSAB? Look at Clyde.

[itanshi1]

Clyde got shafted, I'm going to have to fix that in my 50 chapter fic.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

If they're all alive and their ship is intact it's honestly no more than a bruising.

I mean people are making a big deal out of it because it's the main characters losing a fight, but you think no high level mage ever died in the line of duty in the TSAB? Look at Clyde.

Tiida Lanster, too. I partially agree with you, that even if RF6 retreats, it's not a horrible thing. The question is how the upper brass might see it, and whether someone else might use it as leverage somehow. After all, Regius tried outright to find any black mark he could to disband RF6.

It also depends on if Tsuzuki wants to address any politics in this. I liked that aspect in StrikerS, and I do feel like there is another part to this story that involves the Bureau in connection with those scientists, so we'll see.

I could envision a scenario where the ultimate mastermind(s) contacts the Hucks and says, "Now you see that you can be hurt. Get back in line, or I'll send even more of these forces out after you." And if they do, such a person might try to delay or disband RF6, possibly using a retreat as a wedge.

[Akiyoshi]

Yep, the Tilda Lanster example is a very interesting one. It's pretty strange that even if he die in the line fo duty he's remebered as a failure by the TSAB. So, the TSAB actually hold victory in pretty up regard(enough to blame those who suffer defeat) or they try to make a distraction/covert up for something else.Whichever is the case, the Lanster family ended up paying for it.

[itanshi1]

Its a funny thing, it stinks of conspiracy. Why would anyone whom died in the line of duty ever be less than honored?

[Kaijo]

I might be giving Tsuzuki too much credit to think he's tying StrikerS and Force together with the same Bureau conspiracy that's still going, despite the loss of Regius and the Brains. But it might be interesting to learn there are still side projects going, with more middle manager types still aiming for an advantage to move up.

Probably won't happen, but I'd like to see that Tiida Lanster had stumbled into this and died shortly thereafter. Teana, in her investigation, manages to come up against the Bureau official who badmouthed him before, realizing that he's the same official behind the Eclipse research.

[TheRainbowConnection]

As I think I've said before, our heroes are fighting against an enemy on whom they have next-to-no intelligence and using weapons barely out of experimental testing and seeing their first use in a combat situation. From a field-testing and intelligence-gathering perspective, Section 6 has fared pretty well. Given the strength of their enemies, I don't think anyone reasonable can fault them for their battle losses.

...Of course, this isn't to say that the TSAB is reasonable. Bureaucracy can be rigidly irrational, and clever bureaucratic enemies can spin things however they wish. Section 6 isn't in danger here; only Hayate's career plans.