AnimeSuki Forums

MeoTwister5 · 2012-02-24, 20:17

Since apparently guild members come in twins, then it's likely that Dio is twins with Luscinia.

MrTerrorist · 2012-02-24, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Since apparently guild members come in twins, then it's likely that Dio is twins with Luscinia.

You mean his partner Lucciola right? If so no, Dio is Maestro Delphine's younger brother and Lucciola is the younger brother of Cicada, Delphine's head bodyguard.

If you mean Luscinia, the antagonist of Sliver Wing, then also no cause Dio was born on Prester and Luscinia was born on Earth. Luscinia's twin is Alauda.

MeoTwister5 · 2012-02-24, 22:55

I meant Lucciola oops.

MeggieMay · 2012-02-24, 23:00

I admit I'm only loosely following this thread due to my interest in the Anime, so I don't claim to be up on all the details of this manga. However, I did read over this chapter and I have to wonder if the Guild members in the original series were clones or not or if they even did this "twin" thing. The reason I'm thinking things might have been different, at least in some ways, is the above mentioned fact that Delphine and Dio, and Cicada and Lucciola are older/younger siblings by years and three of them were shown to be children at some time in the original Last Exile series. We saw the scene with Dio and Lucciola featured in the recent recap, while the 13 year old Delphine was shown in a flashback of what happened to Alex and Co that wasn't cover in the recap. Also, the back story information for the original series mentioned Delphine and Dio's father and how he played into the situation. So I have to think that the Antoray Prestor's Guild wasn't clone in the exact same way as the Earth Guild seems to have done things. As for cloning turning out to be involved in this show, I have to say I had wondered about genetic engineering for the Guild in general just to get half of the crazy things they can pull off to work. However, cloning wasn't something I had thought they were doing. The original series set the Guild up like they were Italian Renascence type family's who battled over power and inherited rights with in the Guild and having them all be clones doesn't quite fit into that in my mind, thought I think it could be made to work now they seem to have gone down that path but the "twins" thing isn't quite as workable with the original series, IMO.

Myssa Rei · 2012-02-25, 00:52

MeggieMay: I think the cloning thing seems to be native to the Guild that remained on Earth. Whether this means that they're much closer to how ALL Guilds were prior to the Exile Project remains to be seen, but if I'd hazard a guess maybe all Guilds started out with cloning, but as the instructions to the process (or the mechanisms behind it) behind it either were lost or forgotten, the Guilds of each Presters would turn to selective breeding.

However this could only likely be tenable for a few generations, after which you'd see an eventual corruption of the available genepool... Which would likely force the Guild to intermarry with the people they're supposed to be overseeing. We saw something like this happen with the previous season's Prester (Euris Bassanius, as mentioned by many people, is half-Guild, half-normal human), and was likely what happened in the case of Turan.

P.S. I updated the Character page to include Aranea and Uroctea. Theme naming strikes again!

azarhal · 2012-02-25, 07:25

So they are named after spiders, charming...

MrTerrorist · 2012-03-24, 05:12

Spoiler for c7:

Myssa Rei · 2012-03-24, 05:27

Well well well, the manga really is turning up the dere meter for Tatiana. As if we didn't know enough from the first season, we see here how Claus REALLY is the best pilot from Prester, barring Dio... But only when Lavie is his navi it seems. Poor Tatiana, you just had to fall in love with a blockhead.

Kazu-kun · 2012-03-24, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Poor Tatiana, you just had to fall in love with a blockhead.

Well, if he wasn't a blockhead he would have realized he loves Lavie already, which would be worse for Tatiana, so....

Graveyard Duck · 2012-03-24, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

MeggieMay: I think the cloning thing seems to be native to the Guild that remained on Earth. Whether this means that they're much closer to how ALL Guilds were prior to the Exile Project remains to be seen, but if I'd hazard a guess maybe all Guilds started out with cloning, but as the instructions to the process (or the mechanisms behind it) behind it either were lost or forgotten, the Guilds of each Presters would turn to selective breeding.

I would actually assume the opposite: The Guild started with sexual reproduction. When sexual reproduction started failing, most prester Guilds started to intermingle with the baseline humans, while the Earth Guild split between intermingling and cloning.

Supporting evidence:

Spoiler for from Hourglass:

Spoiler for from Fam:

On chapter 7:

Spoiler for ch7:

Julio C · 2012-03-25, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graveyard Duck

I would actually assume the opposite: The Guild started with sexual reproduction. When sexual reproduction started failing, most prester Guilds started to intermingle with the baseline humans, while the Earth Guild split between intermingling and cloning.

Supporting evidence:

Spoiler for from Hourglass:

Spoiler for from Fam:

On chapter 7:

Spoiler for ch7:

azarhal · 2012-03-25, 09:05

I'm surprised how much this manga focus on Tatiana so far.

Also, I don't understand how people jump from Claus requiring Lavie to be at his best to he's the best pilot. Seems to me that the manga is saying the ClausxLavie duo is good, not that Claus is the best.

Ashaman · 2012-03-25, 10:44

Its because Tatiana mentioned how she can't keep up with him any more. He's surpassed her abilities as a Navi.

Her ability as a Navi doesnt directly translate into her abilities as a piolt, but its a good indicator that he's making decision, turns and speed changes faster than she can follow, therefore faster than she'd be able to do in his place.

azarhal · 2012-03-25, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashaman

Its because Tatiana mentioned how she can't keep up with him any more. He's surpassed her abilities as a Navi.

Her ability as a Navi doesnt directly translate into her abilities as a piolt, but its a good indicator that he's making decision, turns and speed changes faster than she can follow, therefore faster than she'd be able to do in his place.

So Tatiana not being a trained navi, having barely no knowledge about Claus flying style and failing at understanding him make Claus the best pilot in the Last Exile Universe...

Ok, I still don't get the logic, but whatever.

Ashaman · 2012-03-25, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal

So Tatiana not being a trained navi, having barely no knowledge about Claus flying style and failing at understanding him make Claus the best pilot in the Last Exile Universe...

Ok, I still don't get the logic, but whatever.

IIRC, Tatiana has flown as Claus' Navi before, and had no problems then. He's just much better since then. And considering his skills at that time...

Anyway, you're right that it doesn't mean Claus is leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else, but it does indicate even much more skilled than most/ even more skilled than before.

It doesn't help that Tatiana calls his skills "Amazing", but at least part of the problem is that Tatiana can't sync with him.

Myssa Rei · 2012-03-25, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by azarhal

...Also, I don't understand how people jump from Claus requiring Lavie to be at his best....

The latter point seems to be what the manga is implying: that Claus is a very good pilot, but he's really at the top of his game with Lavie as his navi. I suppose it's supposed to imply that the two have a near-instinctive understanding of what the other is thinking while flying (not so much relationship-wise though). So when Claus does a specific maneuver, Lavie can react to it without much issue, but Tatiana, who's only been Claus' navigator in a few instances, has a hard time following on his movements.

Like someone else mentioned though, it's a little weird, given how we've actually been shown that Lavie isn't a combat navi, which means she should actually be worse than Tatiana during that situation (the chase by the starfishes).

azarhal · 2012-03-26, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Like someone else mentioned though, it's a little weird, given how we've actually been shown that Lavie isn't a combat navi, which means she should actually be worse than Tatiana during that situation (the chase by the starfishes).

Claus's flying style doesn't change when in combat, the only thing Lavie have trouble with is changing the gun cartridge and failing to counter Gs (having red-out). Lavie would still have better synch than Tatiana, but that doesn't mean the fight would have been easier, just avoiding the bullets...for a while.

MrTerrorist · 2012-04-19, 06:31

Spoiler for c8:

Ashaman · 2012-04-19, 07:43

Girls in love can be so fucking Boss.

Julio C · 2012-04-19, 18:54

Spoiler for Chapter 8:

2012-02-24, 20:17	Link #81
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	Since apparently guild members come in twins, then it's likely that Dio is twins with Luscinia. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2012-02-24, 22:55	Link #83
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	I meant Lucciola oops. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2012-02-25, 00:52	Link #85
Myssa Rei Moderate Haruhiist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Age: 42	MeggieMay: I think the cloning thing seems to be native to the Guild that remained on Earth. Whether this means that they're much closer to how ALL Guilds were prior to the Exile Project remains to be seen, but if I'd hazard a guess maybe all Guilds started out with cloning, but as the instructions to the process (or the mechanisms behind it) behind it either were lost or forgotten, the Guilds of each Presters would turn to selective breeding. However this could only likely be tenable for a few generations, after which you'd see an eventual corruption of the available genepool... Which would likely force the Guild to intermarry with the people they're supposed to be overseeing. We saw something like this happen with the previous season's Prester (Euris Bassanius, as mentioned by many people, is half-Guild, half-normal human), and was likely what happened in the case of Turan. P.S. I updated the Character page to include Aranea and Uroctea. Theme naming strikes again! __________________ Last edited by Myssa Rei; 2012-02-25 at 02:13.

2012-03-24, 05:12	Link #87
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	Spoiler for c7: Oh Claus, what did you call Tatiana "Lavie" during the heat of battle? And is Tatiana worthy to fly with Claus? Yes Tatiana. You deserve to be worthy to the man you love. __________________

2012-03-24, 05:27	Link #88
Myssa Rei Moderate Haruhiist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Age: 42	Well well well, the manga really is turning up the dere meter for Tatiana. As if we didn't know enough from the first season, we see here how Claus REALLY is the best pilot from Prester, barring Dio... But only when Lavie is his navi it seems. Poor Tatiana, you just had to fall in love with a blockhead. __________________

2012-02-24, 23:00	Link #84
MeggieMay Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004	I admit I'm only loosely following this thread due to my interest in the Anime, so I don't claim to be up on all the details of this manga. However, I did read over this chapter and I have to wonder if the Guild members in the original series were clones or not or if they even did this "twin" thing. The reason I'm thinking things might have been different, at least in some ways, is the above mentioned fact that Delphine and Dio, and Cicada and Lucciola are older/younger siblings by years and three of them were shown to be children at some time in the original Last Exile series. We saw the scene with Dio and Lucciola featured in the recent recap, while the 13 year old Delphine was shown in a flashback of what happened to Alex and Co that wasn't cover in the recap. Also, the back story information for the original series mentioned Delphine and Dio's father and how he played into the situation. So I have to think that the Antoray Prestor's Guild wasn't clone in the exact same way as the Earth Guild seems to have done things. As for cloning turning out to be involved in this show, I have to say I had wondered about genetic engineering for the Guild in general just to get half of the crazy things they can pull off to work. However, cloning wasn't something I had thought they were doing. The original series set the Guild up like they were Italian Renascence type family's who battled over power and inherited rights with in the Guild and having them all be clones doesn't quite fit into that in my mind, thought I think it could be made to work now they seem to have gone down that path but the "twins" thing isn't quite as workable with the original series, IMO.

2012-02-25, 07:25	Link #86
azarhal Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	So they are named after spiders, charming...

2012-03-25, 09:05	Link #92
azarhal Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	I'm surprised how much this manga focus on Tatiana so far. Also, I don't understand how people jump from Claus requiring Lavie to be at his best to he's the best pilot. Seems to me that the manga is saying the ClausxLavie duo is good, not that Claus is the best.

2012-03-25, 10:44	Link #93
Ashaman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Age: 34	Its because Tatiana mentioned how she can't keep up with him any more. He's surpassed her abilities as a Navi. Her ability as a Navi doesnt directly translate into her abilities as a piolt, but its a good indicator that he's making decision, turns and speed changes faster than she can follow, therefore faster than she'd be able to do in his place. __________________

2012-04-19, 06:31	Link #98
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	Spoiler for c8: Damm the Earth Guild! Claus was about to tell Tatiana her answer on how he feels about her! NOOOO! Anyway, this begins Tatiana's journey from pilot to Captain of a ship. __________________

2012-04-19, 07:43	Link #99
Ashaman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Age: 34	Girls in love can be so fucking Boss. __________________

2012-04-19, 18:54	Link #100
Julio C Bury My Shell Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Santa Barbara	Spoiler for Chapter 8: If only Anatoray warships were equipped with anti-vanship firepower like the Ades 3rd and 4th fleet. The earth guild is much skilled in using the starfish. They took down a ship within minutes. Claus almost reveal his true feelings for her, damm so close! So Tatiana takes command as captain for the first time, hopefully we see the Silvius being built later on.