(CR) Gen'ei o Kakeru Taiyo -Il sole penetra le illusioni-

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Preachy? Seira simply presents her opinion very clearly and succinctly. She doesn't belabor the point, but very briefly goes back to it when she feels that the time is right to do so.

She brings up her opinion even the time doesn't call for it.

For example, when Akari was thinking out loud about their class lecture, Seira chimes in just to say "Who cares? Stop thinking about it."

Again, I don't think a pragmatic person who dislikes pondering over issues would feel the need to speak out multiple times. If Seira doesn't care about negotiating, then she needs to act like she doesn't care, not tell us every scene.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I strongly disagree. Searia says just enough to effectively set up the ideological conflict between her and Akari. If she said less, she would be a far less effective foil, because it would be less clear that she is in fact Akari's foil. You can overdo subtlety, you know. Too much subtlety means the narrative aims don't get through at all.

I think saying the same thing multiple times in multiple episodes is beyond being subtle.

Lecturing Akari during/slightly before/after battle is fine because emphasizes the idea that she is causing more trouble, but telling her to think the way Seira does after class when they're just eating lunch? The feeling I took away from that scene was that Seira specifically had issues with Akari's views (hence the "strong opinions") instead of her just being pragmatic.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Again, I strongly disagree. The last time Seira tried to kill a Deamonia host before giving Akira a good chance to converse with one, it resulted in a split in the ranks with Luna restraining Seira. Seira is simply being pragmatic in standing back and letting Akira and Luna do their thing.

You might have had a point if Seira was characterized as a leader who expected cooperation from her teammates, but no, she quite clearly stated one of the previous episodes that she would work alone or shoot Akari down if she got in the way. Seira does not care about teaching Akari a lesson.

I think you are just asserting your own views into Seira's situation here.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Over time they become different people, but the victims made certain key decisions along the way, and so they're not entirely blameless in all of this.

So, again, I disagree with you. There's plenty of room to agree with Seira's philosophy. One could reasonably argue that the victims we've seen so far were in fact morally weak people who freely committed actions that they knew were wrong, due to their darker desires. I think it's pretty clear that the possessed painter in this episode had to freely choose to activate that card before she became possessed. So, thus far, we're talking about killers here. In many places in the United States, they'd be facing capital punishment anyway if they were convicted of their crimes.

She may have chosen to kill her prodigious competition, but the scene where she showed horror on her face just as the Daemonia devoured her shows quite clearly that it was not her choice to kill the teacher during the funeral.

And your real life example is a false analogy because in the case of law enforcement in the United States, the killer is punished based on their action of killing.
In this case, we are discussing the narrative, the characters, and how they think. While it is true that the Daemonia victim in this episode may have lost her innocence after her first kill and would have to be punished either way, it still shows that the intention to kill past her initial target was no longer her intentions alone.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Akari is the main character. So of course she's probably going to be the right one in the end. That doesn't mean that there's no ambiguity here. I think there's plenty of ambiguity here.

In actual fact, I think this episode favors Seira over Akari. Akari's way very nearly got her killed. A very practical argument could be made that Akari's way is ridiculously reckless, and that they should simply do things Seira's way. Pragmatism is on Seira's side, thus far.

On the contrary, Seira's "pragmatism" is shown to be very limited. Because we introduced to the bigger villains pulling strings behind the scenes, it also establishes that Seira has not bothered to gain any intel on the nature of "the enemy" and is therefore none the closer to fulfilling her duty of eliminating the Daemonia.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with veteran solder mentality as long as the fighter is acknowledging that (s)he is just a pawn fulfilling his/her duty and leaving the planning and investigation to his/her superiors who are more suited to doing the thinking.

But again, the problem is that I don't think Seira fits that role very well. The feeling I get from this episode is more like she feels her views are morally superior and justified (and Akari's morally inferior) rather than her just doing what she is told.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think there's plenty to speculate about. Such as who that man was near/at the end of the episode, and what role he might later serve. The man talking ominously, I mean. The plot is starting to thicken here. When that happens, things start to get revealed. Would you say that Madoka Magica Episode 8 is bad because it gives people less to speculate about?

We are shown quite clearly that they are suspicious to the point of being "evil" and are the ones behind the Daemonia attacks.

If you really want to bring Madoka into the discussion, there are plenty of mysteries still left by Episode 8. Homura's motives and past still weren't completely clear and Madoka still had no clear approach to the problem. The only thing that was revealed was a expositional hint given as far back as Episode 2: the design of a Grief Seed compared to its counterpart.

The difference here is that in Madoka Episode 8, we are given the answer to a mystery that was subtly hinted but not emphasized since the beginning of the series.
In this show, we are given direct answers in the exposition of the series. We've seen Tarot cards inside the Daemonia as early as the first episode, and three episodes later we are already told what the Daemonia are exactly, and the faces of the masterminds behind it.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

We are shown quite clearly that they are suspicious to the point of being "evil" and are the ones behind the Daemonia attacks.

In this show, we are given direct answers in the exposition of the series. We've seen Tarot cards inside the Daemonia as early as the first episode, and three episodes later we are already told what the Daemonia are exactly, and the faces of the masterminds behind it.

There's still plenty of speculation to be done, however.

We may have an idea of who the 'bad guys' are but we don't exactly know anything about them nor what they intend or why. Just as well, the gentleman who seems to have requested the deaths of those individuals in a hit-like form seems to have been more businessman than anything. I wouldn't be surprised if his involvement was simply in requesting those services.

The interesting part here is the full-blown progression they've shown from human to daemonia. This is the first time we've been allowed to see exactly what happens, how, and by who. Now we know there's a badass guy in a cloak running teleporting around giving people the power to kill, and then turning them into full-fledged daemonia when they think they're done.

I wont disagree that the tarot cards were heavily shown to be part of the daemonia, but it's not as if any of us had any idea why or how, or to what end. Even now, we don't know the real story behind it all, and there's probably plenty that hasn't been made public by the teachers of their school.

Anyhow, this was a pretty entertaining episode for me. They put a lot of good stuff in here, and getting to see all of these plot-relevant events was quite a treat. Plus, the musical cues for the battle were actually pretty good even though the battle was mostly watching Akari not do a very good job.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Remind me, when was the last series where evil won? Because I've seen plenty of bittersweet victories, but I honestly can't quite recall the last time a story made evil actually win.

Don't answer him, it's a trap! (I don't think he can list any series without getting in trouble for spoilers )

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Don't answer him, it's a trap! (I don't think he can list any series without getting in trouble for spoilers )

Hataraku Maou-sama.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by Traece

The interesting part here is the full-blown progression they've shown from human to daemonia. This is the first time we've been allowed to see exactly what happens, how, and by who. Now we know there's a badass guy in a cloak running teleporting around giving people the power to kill, and then turning them into full-fledged daemonia when they think they're done.

I'm not very fond of this development since it implies that Fuyuna made a deal with Mysterious Evil Guy and may even have killed someone before transforming into a daemonia and coming after Akari. I really hope it turns out that what we saw in this episode is just one way of becoming a daemonia and Fuyuna was just a victim whose emotional distress was manipulated by the bad guys against her will.

[EroKing]

I liked the latest episode. They didn't go with the usual "oh so if I do this the person can be saved" thing one normally comes across. Let the body counts go up for a while and let Akari find her answer much later on. Since this is a 12 episode series (right?) they could put some shocking revelation in episode 8 or 9. At the moment this series has a lot of potential but really a good job so far with the first 4 episodes.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

She brings up her opinion even the time doesn't call for it.

For example, when Akari was thinking out loud about their class lecture, Seira chimes in just to say "Who cares? Stop thinking about it."

So a character basically going "Whatever. It's not something worth thinking about." is a big deal to you?

That's just an expression of mild annoyance or disinterest. And it makes sense that Seira would feel that way towards Akari and/or Akari's opinions on a lot of things.

Just because someone is a very goal/job-oriented pragmatist doesn't necessarily mean that she's going to ignore what people with different views are saying. Yes, Seira is engaging Akari, and is trying to get Akari to give up on her more radical views when it comes to Daemonia-hunting.

Why is Seira doing that? Because whether Seira likes it or not, she is forced to work in a team of 4 girls fighting Daemonia together. One of the four is Akari, and one other is someone who has totally fallen for Akari and who will default to supporting Akari in pretty much anything Akari wants to do or try.

Seira has already seen what happens if she just tries to ignore what Akari wants to do - The team splits in half, which lowers their overall effectiveness and puts them at greater risk of actually losing one of these fights.

So Seira chooses to hang back, and let Akari and Luna do their thing until it seems to be backfiring, and then Seira steps in to end the battle and basically gets to say "I told you so". On the whole, I think its a smart and pragmatic approach that Seira is taking here. Now, it's possible that Seira might lose patience with it. It's possible that Seira might one day lose patience with Akari, and the two might even end up in a physical conflict with each other. But it doesn't look like Seira has lost patience yet.

Again, I don't think a pragmatic person who dislikes pondering over issues would feel the need to speak out multiple times. If Seira doesn't care about negotiating, then she needs to act like she doesn't care, not tell us every scene.

She doesn't care about negotiating with Daemonia, but she has no choice but to care about negotiating with her teammates. Because if the team doesn't function well, that's going to negatively impact Seira and her goals.

In her ideal world, Seira would probably be Magical Girl Light Yagami, working completely independently and wiping out Daemonia without having to think much about any of the deeper questions surrounding that. But Seira doesn't have that option, so yes, she makes some effort to get the rest of the team to think like she does.

I think saying the same thing multiple times in multiple episodes is beyond being subtle.

Yes, that's my point. A good, overarching narrative conflict shouldn't be a "blink and you miss it" sort of deal. It is possible to be too subtle with this, to the point that many viewers miss it. If the ideological conflict between Akira and Saeki is going to be a major aspect of this anime show's overall narrative then it should get a fair bit of clear attention.

Lecturing Akari during/slightly before/after battle is fine because emphasizes the idea that she is causing more trouble, but telling her to think the way Seira does after class when they're just eating lunch? The feeling I took away from that scene was that Seira specifically had issues with Akari's views (hence the "strong opinions") instead of her just being pragmatic.

Yes, Seira does have issues with Akari's views because Akari's views are hindering the effectiveness of the team that Seira is a part of.

You might have had a point if Seira was characterized as a leader who expected cooperation from her teammates, but no, she quite clearly stated one of the previous episodes that she would work alone or shoot Akari down if she got in the way.

I think that Seira was simply bluffing here.

She may have chosen to kill her prodigious competition, but the scene where she showed horror on her face just as the Daemonia devoured her shows quite clearly that it was not her choice to kill the teacher during the funeral.

Yes, I agree with that. I think she had largely lost control to the Daemonia by the time that the teacher was killed. But still, the initial decision was a killing one - "I will use this card to kill the loathsome competition."

Now, I'm not saying that she wasn't sympathetic. Her competition was a rather rude, elitist, and obnoxious girl who tried to force her particular views on art on others.

But I do see room here for someone to side with Seira.

We are shown quite clearly that they are suspicious to the point of being "evil" and are the ones behind the Daemonia attacks.

Probably so, but still, what do they hope to accomplish through all of this? What are their goals? It hints at something bigger and grander than what we've seen so far, and I find that a bit exciting. Perhaps these "villain goals" will ultimately become the big mystery of this show, the one that spurs speculation. But only time will tell of course.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So a character basically going "Whatever. It's not something worth thinking about." is a big deal to you?

That's just an expression of mild annoyance or disinterest. And it makes sense that Seira would feel that way towards Akari and/or Akari's opinions on a lot of things.

Someone who doesn't care should act like they don't care by keeping to themselves, not stating "I don't care and you shouldn't either!" at every opportunity.

If Seira feels the need to chime in with her attitude every time, then it makes her look more like a child throwing a tantrum over people thinking differently from her than an actual pragmatist who wants to get things done. Show, don't tell.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Just because someone is a very goal/job-oriented pragmatist doesn't necessarily mean that she's going to ignore what people with different views are saying. Yes, Seira is engaging Akari, and is trying to get Akari to give up on her more radical views when it comes to Daemonia-hunting.

Why is Seira doing that? Because whether Seira likes it or not, she is forced to work in a team of 4 girls fighting Daemonia together. One of the four is Akari, and one other is someone who has totally fallen for Akari and who will default to supporting Akari in pretty much anything Akari wants to do or try.

Seira has already seen what happens if she just tries to ignore what Akari wants to do - The team splits in half, which lowers their overall effectiveness and puts them at greater risk of actually losing one of these fights.

So Seira chooses to hang back, and let Akari and Luna do their thing until it seems to be backfiring, and then Seira steps in to end the battle and basically gets to say "I told you so". On the whole, I think its a smart and pragmatic approach that Seira is taking here. Now, it's possible that Seira might lose patience with it. It's possible that Seira might one day lose patience with Akari, and the two might even end up in a physical conflict with each other. But it doesn't look like Seira has lost patience yet.


She doesn't care about negotiating with Daemonia, but she has no choice but to care about negotiating with her teammates. Because if the team doesn't function well, that's going to negatively impact Seira and her goals.

In her ideal world, Seira would probably be Magical Girl Light Yagami, working completely independently and wiping out Daemonia without having to think much about any of the deeper questions surrounding that. But Seira doesn't have that option, so yes, she makes some effort to get the rest of the team to think like she does.

Again, Seira has explicitly stated that she will work alone and/or shoot Akari down if she gets in the way. She has no interest in the well being of her teammates.

I get the feeling that you're following this line of logic: there is some benefit to Seira's actions -> logically, the benefit would be proving Akari wrong -> Akari adopting Seira's ideals would allow for better teamwork -> therefore this must be Seira's intention because it would benefit her.

Even if that is the end result, it does not necessarily mean that is what the character itself believes.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that Seira was simply bluffing here.

The fact that you think Seira is bluffing only proves my point about the inconsistency with her characterization, assuming she is a pragmatist.

The difference here is that while you doubt her willingness to abandon the newcomer, I believe she makes too much of an effort in her argument to be the pragmatic soldier.


My argument is that Seira not only has no sympathy for Daemonia victims, but that she also personally hates them instead of being the neutral soldier who is merely following orders.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, that's my point. A good, overarching narrative conflict shouldn't be a "blink and you miss it" sort of deal. It is possible to be too subtle with this, to the point that many viewers miss it. If the ideological conflict between Akira and Saeki is going to be a major aspect of this anime show's overall narrative then it should get a fair bit of clear attention.

A conflict is something that persists on multiple occasions, and good revelation isn't something that the audience can "blink and miss". The idea is to give multiple hints over time, giving the audience opportunity to learn and experience the world for themselves, then give the answer directly later for anyone who hasn't figured it out yet. That is the reveal.

Again, show, don't tell.

Why are you giving me this "one way or the other" fallacy anyway? It's possible to be subtle but still have the audience understand the direction.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, Seira does have issues with Akari's views because Akari's views are hindering the effectiveness of the team that Seira is a part of.

I think that Seira was simply bluffing here.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, I agree with that. I think she had largely lost control to the Daemonia by the time that the teacher was killed. But still, the initial decision was a killing one - "I will use this card to kill the loathsome competition."

Now, I'm not saying that she wasn't sympathetic. Her competition was a rather rude, elitist, and obnoxious girl who tried to force her particular views on art on others.

But I do see room here for someone to side with Seira.

Despite Akari wanting to negotiate with the enemy, she was still reasonable enough to decide the previous Daemonia victim was beyond saving and was able to kill it herself.

So here we have two Elemental Tarot users who are both willing to kill Daemonia when the situation calls for it, but only one is willing to try to gain intel.

Also keep in mind that Akari never asked for Seira's cooperation while negotiating with the Daemonia victims. The only who gets hurt in this case is Akari, and possibly Luna because she chose to help Akari.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Someone who doesn't care should act like they don't care by keeping to themselves, not stating "I don't care and you shouldn't either!" at every opportunity.

Where do you get this idea that pragmatists don't care? Many pragmatists do care. Pragmatists tend to be people who think that idealists overly complicate matters and make things much more difficult/risky by insisting on "the best" when "the good" would suffice.

I'm not a strict pragmatist on most issues, but I get where pragmatists come from. The idealist's way is harder, leaves one more vulnerable, and hence is much riskier. Even on issues where I tend towards idealism, I would admit that it's typically the harder route.

If Seira feels the need to chime in with her attitude every time, then it makes her look more like a child throwing a tantrum over people thinking differently from her than an actual pragmatist who wants to get things done.

Seira's arguments are presented clearly, calmly, and coolly. There's nothing tantrum-esque about it. She's simply trying to change Akari's mind, and for perfectly understandable reasons, imo.

Again, Seira has explicitly stated that she will work alone and/or shoot Akari down if she gets in the way.

Yeah, and that was clearly a bluff. Why is it a bluff? Simply because this is not Seira's call to make. It's not up to her whether she works alone or not. Akari, Luna, Seira, and Ginka were all assigned to work together as a 4-person team. I guess that Seira could conceivably ask to be transferred to another team, or allowed to work alone, but there's no guarantee that her request would be granted.

And Seira simply running away and doing her own thing isn't a serious option. We saw how that worked out for Akari.

Plus, even the harshest of pragmatists are still human beings. Seira may be cold, but I don't think she's totally heartless. She'd prefer not to have to seriously hurt or even kill Akari.

I get the feeling that you're following this line of logic: there is some benefit to Seira's actions -> logically, the benefit would be proving Akari wrong -> Akari adopting Seira's ideals would allow for better teamwork -> therefore this must be Seira's intention because it would benefit her.

Yes, that's pretty much it. I might be wrong there, but what I'm putting forward here is certainly possible at least. If I'm right, it fits Seira's characterization to date, and it shows decent consistency to her words and actions.

My argument is that Seira not only has no sympathy for Daemonia victims, but that she also personally hates them instead of being the neutral soldier who is merely following orders.

That's certainly possible. Maybe there will be a later plot point that reveals that Seira lost a loved one to a Daemonia-possessed human. In which case she becomes even more like The Punisher (Frank Castle) of Marvel Comics fame.

A conflict is something that persists on multiple occasions, and good revelation isn't something that the audience can "blink and miss". The idea is to give multiple hints over time, giving the audience opportunity to learn and experience the world for themselves, then give the answer directly later for anyone who hasn't figured it out yet. That is the reveal.

Agreed. And so far, I think that Gen'ei has handled the conflict between Akari and Seira in such a fashion.

Again, show, don't tell.

Why are you giving me this "one way or the other" fallacy anyway?

"Show don't tell" is sometimes a "one way or the other" fallacy itself. Why can't you show and tell?

For example, in Madoka Magica...

Spoiler for Mild implied Madoka Magica spoilers:

Should Kyouko have engaged Sayaka in combat without explaining her beef with Sayaka? Should Gen had simply left that "show" up to viewers to interpret? No, of course not. That would have been very sloppy writing. Thankfully, Kyouko expressed her opinions and hence her issues with Sayaka, and so their conflict had the clear context it should have.

Like it or not, sometimes characters have to put their motivations out there through actual dialogue. Otherwise, you risk losing the audience.

I could understand your criticisms if Seira was long-winded and excessively verbose in her arguments. But she isn't at all. She's very straight and to the point.

Despite Akari wanting to negotiate with the enemy, she was still reasonable enough to decide the previous Daemonia victim was beyond saving and was able to kill it herself.

So here we have two Elemental Tarot users who are both willing to kill Daemonia when the situation calls for it, but only one is willing to try to gain intel.

And in those attempts to try to gain intel, Akari has put herself at greater risk. It very nearly got her killed.

Trying to gain intel, like trying to engage in diplomacy, is not a free choice. It comes with a certain opportunity cost, and a certain risk. I'm not going to fault a soldier for thinking that the risk may not be worth it.

[novalysis]

Akari's ability actually, for some reason reminds me of Allen Walker's ability to see Akuma in D.Grayman. In-fact, the Gen'ei Daemonias share certain parallels to Akumas, at least in the way humans are duped into producing such creatures.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Where do you get this idea that pragmatists don't care? Many pragmatists do care. Pragmatists tend to be people who think that idealists overly complicate matters and make things much more difficult/risky by insisting on "the best" when "the good" would suffice.

I'm not a strict pragmatist on most issues, but I get where pragmatists come from. The idealist's way is harder, leaves one more vulnerable, and hence is much riskier. Even on issues where I tend towards idealism, I would admit that it's typically the harder route.




Seira's arguments are presented clearly, calmly, and coolly. There's nothing tantrum-esque about it. She's simply trying to change Akari's mind, and for perfectly understandable reasons, imo.




Yeah, and that was clearly a bluff. Why is it a bluff? Simply because this is not Seira's call to make. It's not up to her whether she works alone or not. Akari, Luna, Seira, and Ginka were all assigned to work together as a 4-person team. I guess that Seira could conceivably ask to be transferred to another team, or allowed to work alone, but there's no guarantee that her request would be granted.

And Seira simply running away and doing her own thing isn't a serious option. We saw how that worked out for Akari.

"Show don't tell" is sometimes a "one way or the other" fallacy itself. Why can't you show and tell?

For example, in Madoka Magica...

Spoiler for Mild implied Madoka Magica spoilers:

Should Kyouko have engaged Sayaka in combat without explaining her beef with Sayaka? Should Gen had simply left that "show" up to viewers to interpret? No, of course not. That would have been very sloppy writing. Thankfully, Kyouko expressed her opinions and hence her issues with Sayaka, and so their conflict had the clear context it should have.

Like it or not, sometimes characters have to put their motivations out there through actual dialogue. Otherwise, you risk losing the audience.

I could understand your criticisms if Seira was long-winded and excessively verbose in her arguments. But she isn't at all. She's very straight and to the point.

Again, the problem is that Seira brings up her point frequently.

Since you mention Madoka again, let me put it this way:
Did Homura go out of her way to tell Sayaka and Mami that their ideals were wrong and that they should think the way she does?

That is the attitude of a pragmatist and a soldier who is set out to accomplish her mission as efficiently as possible with no hesitation.

Your example is about a character who is following less than ideal rules because she genuinely thinks the world isn't kind to idealists. She refuses to be kind, not just because she merely sees no point in kindness.
There is a difference, and that difference is my argument.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Your example is about a character who is following less than ideal rules because she genuinely thinks the world isn't kind to idealists. She refuses to be kind, not just because she merely sees no point in kindness.
There is a difference, and that difference is my argument.

Let's say that you're right, and Seira is "a character who is following less than ideal rules because she genuinely thinks the world isn't kind to idealists", and that this means she's not a pragmatist as you see it.

Ok, and...? If that's Seria's character, I don't see a problem with it.

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Akari's ability actually, for some reason reminds me of Allen Walker's ability to see Akuma in D.Grayman. In-fact, the Gen'ei Daemonias share certain parallels to Akumas, at least in the way humans are duped into producing such creatures.

Now when you think about it... Genei is Madoka meets D-Gray Man.

[cyth]

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Although it's interesting that both Madoka and GeneiTaiyou were produced by Aniplex.

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by cyth

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Although it's interesting that both Madoka and GeneiTaiyou were produced by Aniplex.

I think any self-respecting Madoka-fan (including me) picked that up.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by cyth

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Although it's interesting that both Madoka and GeneiTaiyou were produced by Aniplex.

Trying to strike gold again Aniplex?

Well learned some interesting things this episode. Seems that all the individuals being controlled are chosen by their bloodline?

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Trying to strike gold again Aniplex?

Well learned some interesting things this episode. Seems that all the individuals being controlled are chosen by their bloodline?

I thought this only counts for the ones who possess the Elementary Tarots, aka, our female protagonists?

[Kimidori]

watched this because I played Persona 3, which have tarot just like this and did some read-up on tarot after playing it.

I feel all character personality fit their card but Seira (Star), IMO she would fit Justice or Strength or maybe even The Chariot better.

Originally Posted by OkamiNoKaze

I wonder if we'll see girls with the, Death, Devil, and Tower cards, or will they be Daemonia?

they are perfectly normal card that can be represented by some normal character type and personality, there are really no tarot card that represent evil personality when they in upright position, but the reversed position, which I believe Daemonia represent, can be evil.

for example Kiyone in ep 4 have the Justice card, which represent fairness, sense of what right and wrong, reserved it mean unfairness and injustice, which I think totally what Kiyone feel in ep 4, thinking her being unfairly treated.

it just my interpretation though.

I find it harder to see someone fit in The Fool and The World card, as The Fool mean the person have no set personality or belief yet, have no real power of itself but hold infinite potential and can become anything. The World pretty much mean that person is pretty much all knowing and very virtuous.

if you guys free read up The Fool's Journey, it will help you understand some basic meaning of the card.

[EroKing]

[Flower]

Ok - caught up with ep 4 last evening ... am enjoying it - if only the art work were not as wonky as it feels to me I'd prolly enjoy it better, but ... oh well.