(L) Simoun

[metronome]

hey, I spotted something wrong to episode 24

Spoiler:

look at 21.03
when kaimu asked for veggie one and then she nodded her head to her left side and ask rodoreamon which one she want

rodore said: meat

but how come now kaimu sit in front of her(rodoreamon) looking to the window?

weird.

or may be it's just oh well my imagination? may be she move inside after that?

[FatPianoBoy]

Indeed. Much kudos for the subtitles. My japanese is limited, so my enjoyment without them is also limited.

Spoiler:

The atmosphere in the this episode is so thick that I almost broke out sobbing from it alone. Although I've been feeling strangely emotional lately, so I might be exaggerating.
It also hit way too close to home for me with the aprehension of coming of age and all the anxiety of ending such an important chapter of your life. My heart was breaking watching all them trying to come to terms with being forced to go to the spring; they want to stay the way they are so much, and some of them obviously aren't ready for their new lives, but they have to accept it anyway.
And then Onashia comes in. Her speech about how, though she physically remained a child, her heart inevitably grew up. It showed that growing up is not a external transformation, but an internal development, and running away from it will only cause problems.

And Paraietta and Kaimu dancing was adorable

It seems like they're going to keep us guessing on pairings until the very end (except for AaeRil).
And if Anglus piloting the Simoun at the ruins is never explained, I'm gonna strangle someone. It's too much 'WTF?!?' to let slide.

It seems like the ending is going to make or break this series. It feels like we're being set up for something epic and great, but we shall see.

[m000m000]

Originally Posted by wowo

Hopefully, the ending for this show will be amazing (I'm starting to get a bit skeptical, but hopefully the creators are succeeding in tricking me somehow), and sales will gradually go up.
As much as I love AS's drawings, I have a feeling they put off people who would actually enjoy the show (especially the DVD covers). Also, I think the show is slightly mundane... they really could have pushed it up a notch somewhere, whether it be script, or visuals. Don't get me wrong, it's great stuff, but I was hoping for something that'll last for 10 years+, and I dunno, I feel like it's not doing that so far. Maybe they're trying to do too much, and they're stretching it?
We'll see.

I'm not sure.

Personally for me this show has exceeded any and all expectations that I originally had towards it (which, admittedly, were very low ), and even managed to keep up with the ones I've conjured as the show's gone on, so I'm quite happy with it. It's been on a continual upward climb ever since I got addicted to it, though did kind of reach a 'plateu' as of late regarding that.
Depending on how well they manage to do the ending, I can very well see this show jumping up into my top-5 personal favourites, but even without that it's already made a very lasting impression on me personally (as you can probably see from my random ramblings about the characters in this thread every now and then ).

If I look at the thing critically though, as in what I'd try to improve, the first thing is the very confusing episode 1 and the on-following introduction which is a bit hackenyed.
I'll also have to agree that the directing is at times a bit a bit on the weak side of things, but overall it still gets a passing judgement - That's not to say there wouldn't be room for improvement, though. The art, well, it's standard Studio Deen -fare, so no need to comment on that .
I just hope the poor DVD sales won't keep them from re-working the worst parts of that for the later DVD volumes as with the first one...


Story and character-wise, I think they've done what they set out to do as well as they could possibly do it. At least, I have a hard time (other than maybe waking the sleeping flower-girl, but that's just the evil gushy fanboy in me speaking his wanton wishes ) coming up with anything I'd do different.

Pacing-wise there's some minor issues but nothing too bad (the start, again), and the writing's been generally solid (I mostly blame the directing for the most immidiate faults in the storytelling).
The worst thing in this regard I feel actually is the most recent episodes - They sort of ended winding the emotional stake all the way up to the stratosphere with episodes 16-21, so the still very good and enjoyable but not as totally "ZOMG!" episodes as of late feel perhaps don't always hit home as strongley as they could because they'll be forever in shadow of the peak.
That, and at the same time in parallel the story's taken a natural turn for the slower too with the plot developments in 21+, which only furhers to underline the previous thing. While episode 25 will probably pick things up a bit, one shouldn't expect anything grand there - event-wise, that is.
As I said already at the end of Episode 22, there will be no grand battles in this series anymore - But, that was never what this show was about. I do hope though, that there are some grand emotions in store for us, despite us having a relatively good idea how the end will play out. In that aspect, I'm laying a lot of hope on the final episode, which for all bits and purposes seems to be a dedicated epilogue, judging from the name and the short spoiler-bit posted some pages ago. By default long and proper epilogues are always awsome, purely because they're so extremely rare

By contrast, most other shows, tend to keep the steam running on high-pressure to the very final moments. That is not to say one couldn't have a slowly downwinding ending, it's just that it's something that's way harder to do right than the standard "CLIMAX! *splooge* Ok, here's a 1½ minute denoument and ending credits, kthx!!1".
Even Planetes, another show with rather sedate pacing at the start reserves its entire last episode as a form of epilogue (and it is, in my opinion, one of the greatest and best done anime endings ever), but in contrast to Simoun it keeps the steam pumped up all the way to that point, and in fact ends episode 25 with one of the most evil cliffhangers ever .


Discounting just outright bad and non-endings, I don't think I can recall a show at quick that'd done its ending in such a similar manner, if this all plays out in the 'slowly-winding-down-with-slight-speedbump-ahead'-manner as I estimate it to go.
And speaking of that, I don't think I can name having watched another show either where the story technically ends with

Spoiler:

the bad guys winning and forcing the good guys to sign a peace treaty with somewhat realistic terms (no tyranny and whatever) . But I guess we still got to see if Nevi and Aeru hit some form of magical semi-reset button with whatever they're setting out to do...

So in summarization; A very positive surprise, and overall a good and solid series, with arguebly some slight flaws here and there. Overall verdict still says "definitvely good stuff".

As for lasting 10 years, I don't think the show, good as it is, ever had a chance to do that - For something to last 10 years we're talking shows like Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop and Ghost In the Shell.
It's just not wide-appealing enough. Even if Simoun would have done everything it set out do perfectly in execution, it still would probably not be one of the kind to last 10 years - It's just doesn't have a base for that sort of widespread appeal, nor is it controversial enough to create excessive appeal beyond its set niché.

But, if we get a good-to-awsome ending, I'd say we got something that's in-line for falling into the favourites of many and something to be remembered as a paragon show of its own genre (...I'm not going to try to define what that is, though ). even some years down the road.
And for a show that on the surface started out as an overt Yuri+Mecha gimmicky moe-marketing device, I'd say that's coming quite a long way from where the proposed origins would have led one to belive the show would end up .




Re: DVDs; personally, since the Simoun-Fans ' scripts are freely downloadable for everyone, I'd buy the R2s in a heartbeat - If only they weren't priced like R2s. 13x50 USD is 650 bucks, and for that I can get 3-5 domestically released series if I buy them as they come out (nevermind the cheapo bricks). If they'd be priced more like movies in the ~4700 yen range I could perhaps stomach it barely, but 6800 volume just goes way over any and all of my personal budget limits

I guess 2nd-hand would always be an option, but that needs both time and patience. Of course, a US license would be a most splendid option, but while I don't think it's impossible, or even strange if it would be picked up, I'm not holding up any extra flags of hope regarding that matter. I guess we'll have to wait for the con-season next year until any potential news on that front, though.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by WoWo

One thing that was interesting - when Neviril was confessing her feelings towards Aaeru, her feminine conjugations disappeared! Do I see Nevirifu coming?
Considering "Afu" and "Aaefu" both sound retarded, perhaps, perhaps.
Well, if they're gonna pair in that way in the end anyway.

Haha, that would be all kinds of awsome, though, I think. I mean, is there anyone here who's even given the thing a 2nd thought?
An interesting obeservation, though. Will have to try to keep an eye on it myself if it continues next episode.

Spoiler:

And you got to admit, dere-Aeru would make for a cute bride .

[m000m000]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Thanks again to wowo. I really enjoyed watching ep24 with her subtitles.

Spoiler for ep24:

My emotional reaction to scenes in the episode just becomes deeper. I was particularly moved by seeing Yun at the end holding the little cradle, which I imagine still has Mamiina's braid in it.

I somehow have the feeling that Mamiina's braid might now be accompanied by an Onashia-earring. So, what's next for The YunYun to collect?

While I think the most purely awsomeley done thing in the episode is still Nevi's confession to Aeru, the most touching moment was Yun's final relinquishment of Onashia. One of those sad happy moments. You can feel the melancholy in the air. Onashia is finally able to move on; Yun is finally able to do clear the burden by getting to do the very one thing for someone that she's wished to do for a very long time.
It's a relinquishing moment for both; Yet also a sad one; Onashia is, all wishes aside, bygones, and Yun, coming to terms with herself, sets herself down a path of uncertainaty. She'll need to be a strong girl.

Overall, I'll have to agree that it was a very heartfelt episode with a couple of very strong moments. Though the "last day for the girls on Arcus Prima" bit felt almost... mundane in comparsion after the very strong highpoints previously in the episode .

Tears to my eyes. I also loved Rodore bowing to Morinas's back. She's a natural miko and a natural aristocrat.

Yes, that was a very nice touch. Lodre's become such a good girl(?) as of late~

I'm sort of interested in the PS2 game, but seeing as games based on anime almost always tend to unversally suck, I'm not holding my hopes up or putting down any money until I hear some actual comments on the thing. The Sakura Taisen games are favourites of mine though, so if they've actually conjured up something good in that vein, I'll be all over it. But until I hear some good news on this subject, excuse my heavy skepticism...

Originally Posted by warainagara

Inspired by m000m000's and Kaoru Chujo's posts,

Spoiler:

I'm tempted to say more about the confession in terms of supplement for my previous post.

Admittedly, the development of Neviril's feelings for Aaeur sometimes got invisible by the effects of a few striking events.
But there is a line of development I want to draw from several scenes.

In ep 13, Neviril was frightend by Aaeru's mentioning Amuria's death and thought about the similarity between the two.
While Simoun Gem allegedly detected her true feelings for Aaeru, the fear of such a similarity seemed to block her from seeing the feelings as it is. Afterwards, she shunned Aaeru.

However, DomiLimo's missing provided a turn point of her attitude : she regreted the feebleness in the past and decided to accept Aaeru at least as a pair. And they shared a secret by visiting the ruins.

Mamina's death, I believe, functioned as a landmark in their relationship in that Neviril began to recognize Aaeru as a being distinguished from Amuria when she saw her crying.
The recognition brought her the final release from distrust in Aaeru, which was already fairly weakened by the shared experiences they've accumulated.
Also, Aaeru's determined attitude to overcome the tragedy motivated Neviril to get out of the weighty influence of the event.

I guess, the parallel of Amuria's and Mamina's death (although one has been found to be possibly alive later) and Aaeru's intervention in her dealing with both of them caused Neviril to look back on the past hours when she had got stronger struggling with the at-that-time destructive effect of Aaeru's sayings about Amuria's death, and thus to find out that she had actually overcome Amuria as Aaeru urged at that time.
All these seemed to form the background Neviril came to consciously confront her true feelings for Aaeru and felt inclined to go to the New World with her.
In addition, she may have unwittingly answered "let's open the door together, Neviril!" in ep 13 by suggesting they go to the New World.

In all, the lines in the confession and Neviril's motive in wanting to go to the New World have been presaged.
The summarizing line of their relationship would be "only when both of you are strong can you really embrace each other" in ep 12.
I love the echoing between numerous one-to-one relationship among the Chor Tempest.

That is, a quite excellent summarization of things, I think. An applause and internets for you, and also quoted because good reads bear repeating .




On the subject of next episode;

Spoiler for preview for ep25:

Crying Yun makes me worried, I wonder what's up with that? They didn't exactly seem like tears of happiness

The one thing I can see is her finally breaking down in front of the others when having to say goodbye to the rest of the girls in the Chor due to the path she's chosen for herself (or did she?), but I got a nagging feeling we may be in for something worse :/

No more tears for Yun, she's been sad melancholy girl all series already!

[Matrim]

I'd like to thank wowo yet again.

Kind of controversial episode. On the one hand it just seemed that something was missing (the burden of the great expectations?), as mentioned some of the voices sounded weird, the music seemed out of place at some points and so on. On the other hand this could be great setup for the next two episodes

Spoiler:

Why the heck there wasn't a farewell scene between Aaeru and Neville and the rest of the Chor? Maybe we will see a bit of it in a flashback?

I miss the red-eye and kicking-Neviril's-gut-with-her words Aaeru.

Tell me about it. The "new" Aaeru is quite annoying. "So, Neviril, you are going on an almost suicidal journey involving jump through space and time. I have wanted to do that for my entire life but now I won't because there is 0,0000001 we might actually run into your former lover Amuria". OK, I see where Aaeru is coming from, first love and all that jazz but still this dialogue managed to be annoying, maybe because Aaeru's transformation was a bit too swift. Maybe I need a rewatch but I think too little was shown of the transition between Aaeru's "I like Neviril cause with her I can create awesome ri-maajons" and "I am madly in love with her but I don't admit it to myself". Thank Tempus Spatium that Aaeru's angsty phase did not coincide with Neviril's angsty phase and the latter took control of the situation very skillfully. That said the confession of love scene could and should have been at least a little bit better. Maybe that's just my wishful thinking.

The more I watch Vyura, the more I regret she didn't have a bigger role. Interesting to see everyone being cheerful on the way to the Spring but I think there will quite an emotion swing during the sex choice procedure, at least for some.

I wish Onashia had spilled all the beans, so to speak, before desintegrating. I guess Yun now holds her memories so we might still learn more. I want to know more about this infamous Chor Dextra, damn it!

Random thought to end this scattered spoiler-full part of my post - why the hell was Vyura thinking that Floe loved Aaeru?

Anyway, while episode 24 might be deemed to be disappointing in the grand scale of thing it did have the kind of small, seemingly not that significant emotional moments that I am loving more and more as I rewatch some of the older episodes. Moments like Rodoreamon hiding her fear of thunderstorms in episode 12 by trying to calm down Rimone who wasn't afraid at all. And while the main plotline might in the end turn out to be disappointing, things like that will make me remember Simoun fondly for a long time, I think.

[warainagara]

Spoiler for Aaeru:

What I feel uneasy about Aaeru's change is the way she reacts to the newly acquired emotions.
She was DESTINED to feel love and jealousy and thus grow out of the insensitivity she once showed when she mentioned Amuria before Neviril.
That's the essence of her inner growth.
And it's more than natural that she is confused with such new feelings.
The expressions of the awkwardness don't seem to be of Aaeru to me, though.
The writers may have wanted to imbue more moe into the new Aaeru.

But I don't think the change was so swift.
I originally understood her view of Neviril as "a tool to help to go higher" which is based on her ability as sybilla.
My understanding changed in the middle into that she came to like Neviril in a childlike sense of the special being who can do an important thing together.
Like a boy who shows to his best friend a long-desired toy his parents bought him yesterday and wholeheartedly invites him to play with it together.

Such a favor could easily grow into a mature love as one goes through the growth of the whole character and builds up trust by sharing experience in an extreme condition.
The depiction of the change of her feelings was not explicitly presented, but the change within the time frame seems understandable to me.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I loved the lightheartedness of the crew on their last day on the Prima, and on the train. It might have seemed too lighthearted, but a lot of them had been looking forward to this day, and those feelings could now be released. The lightheartedness felt like a form of panic, too. Maybe nothing dramatic, but there are lots of touching moments: Rodore bowing, Paraietta carving in the wall, with Morinas eagerly watching, Paraietta and Kaimu dancing, Furoe...being Furoe.

And especially Yun speaking with Rodore and realizing what she could do. Her departure seemed sudden, but I do think some things happen that way in this show. The characters do their thinking almost in secret and then act unexpectedly. Neviril's confession falls into this category. We could say that it is insufficiently prepared in the script, or we could say that it is at a high level and demands something of the audience.

As I tried to say before, these are not exactly human beings. I am chalking up some of the strangeness of their reactions to that. Aaeru's exotic angst didn't really seem out of character. She's like a twelve-year-old boy, both as a gung-ho fighter and in her romantic bafflement.

I don't get the idea that the voices sounded weird. In what way? The music was sometimes "out of place," but that is part of its art. The music is constantly playing against the action in this show. I remember people condemning it for that after ep1. How was this episode any different? I really think Simoun has one of the best scores I've ever heard. EDIT: I just watched 24 again, and I take one thing back. In this episode, the music is more of a match to the action/emotion, rather than playing against it. That could make the episode feel less complex.

I have probably watched episode one ten times by now, and love it more and more. But it was not so easy to grasp at first, I admit. Now, the scene of Neviril parading forward with such misplaced confidence, with the baroque music and the proud acolytes and the adoring crowd, to jump up and kiss Amuria, is one of my favorite scenes in all anime. Even Furoe standing pertly on her Simoun gives me a thrill. But the one thing above all that makes that episode unique is the fact that one of the principal characters actually dies. Right there in episode one. And she has hovered invisibly over the action right up to episode 24, like the ghost of Hamlet's father.

Originally Posted by metronome

hey, I spotted something wrong to episode 24

Spoiler:

look at 21.03 when kaimu asked for veggie one and then she nodded her head to her left side and ask rodoreamon which one she want rodore said: meat, but how come now kaimu sit in front of her(rodoreamon) looking to the window? weird.

or may be it's just oh well my imagination? may be she move inside after that?

Yes, that looks like poor continuity to me, too:

Spoiler:

Kaimu leaned out to ask for veggie, then turned to look at Rodore but seemed to be looking back at her own place. Then, with not enough time for her to be back, she was sitting back in her place beside Para-sama, facing Rodore. Not that I care, but I think it could have been better arranged. I'm not sure whether to blame the series director, the episode director, or the person who did the storyboard.

Is this the kind of thing people are referring to when they criticize the "direction?" I haven't seen people give examples, so I'm not 100% sure what they're referring to. The one thing that jarred for me was around 7:04, when Furoe was saying that becoming an adult is a sad thing, over an image of doves above Arcus Prima, then we switched to seeing Kaimu with Para-sama. Furoe's words seemed to override the Kaimu scene in a way that was disorienting. The rhythm was awkward.

I expect this show to "last ten years" for me, but since it hasn't lasted ten minutes for most people, I guess it's not going to be considered a classic. Unless more people suddenly "get it," lol.

Sorry to go on and on. Just thinking out loud.

[Key Board]

The theocracy has arrogant and inept leaders, but they did not start this war.

Argentum attacked them because they want the helical motoris.

Plumblum declared war for religious reasons.

And now their priestesses are forced to retire, and are to be replaced by Plumblum priesstess for their ceremonial duties.

I don't know about you, but that sounds like ingredients for an ugly religious war If you ask me.

In real life parallels that would be equivalent to forcing the Japanese Emperor down from the throne after the United States won the war. (which was suggested, but they didn't do, thankfully. Thank MacArthur for doing his research)

[m000m000]

I think it helps if you view the religious issue as Catholics Vs. Protestants or Orthodox. They're all still christians, have their origin and faith in the exact same thing and doctorine-wise there's scare few real differencies (That's not to say ugly wars havn't been fought over that already, but... ).

That is, I don't think it's really that bad. Though for any supposed theocracy, by the very definition of the word, such an action would of course be the utter and total death of said theocracy. Of course, Simulacrum's not a 'real' theocracy but "Shrine Nation", as the literal translation went .

[Matrim]

Spoiler:

Well, if the world of Simoun is anything like our world the replacement of the local Sybillae with Plumbian ones is bound to cause an incredible outrage. As for the Simulacran leaders, it's mystifying how they managed to lose the war despite the period of great technological advantage that they enjoyed up until the second half of the series. Maybe Tempus Spatium forbade them form attacking enemy citieis or something like that?

My understanding changed in the middle into that she came to like Neviril in a childlike sense of the special being who can do an important thing together.
Like a boy who shows to his best friend a long-desired toy his parents bought him yesterday and wholeheartedly invites him to play with it together.

Interesting...IIRC, Aaeru didn't really bother exploring her feelings about Neviril until the possibility of Amuria returning begun to loom on the horizon. When a toy is to be taken away from a boy it usually becomes much more precious in a rather irrational way. Well, let's hope Aaeru will overcome the "toy mentality soon" and tells Neviril about her true feelings (whatever they are, although it would be quite shocking if we have a case of unrequited love here) as soon as possible. Though, this is a bit too much to ask from someone whose reply to Floe's kiss in episode 13 was to say her actions were strange because they weren't preparing to fly a Simoun.

[Simon]

(Quoting out of order, gomen)

Originally Posted by m000m000

Re: DVDs; personally, since the Simoun-Fans ' scripts are freely downloadable for everyone, I'd buy the R2s in a heartbeat - If only they weren't priced like R2s. 13x50 USD is 650 bucks, and for that I can get 3-5 domestically released series if I buy them as they come out (nevermind the cheapo bricks). If they'd be priced more like movies in the ~4700 yen range I could perhaps stomach it barely, but 6800 volume just goes way over any and all of my personal budget limits

It's actually nine DVDs (two episodes on the first disc, then three thereafter), and Amazon JP is your friend: they offer 25% discount on pre-orders, so you can currently order Volume 2 and Volume 3 for "only" Y5100 (the prices shown on their site include 5% domestic sales tax).

Yes, that's still non-trivial if you convert it back into your own currency (hint: don't do that), but it's absolutely worth it. So you go hungry for a while - eventually you'll regain the weight you lost, and you'll still have those gorgeous DVDs

Seriously though, it sounds horribly materialistic to say this but the most practical way we can support this magnificent anime is to vote with our wallets. (Well OK, I intend to sit down with my dictionary when the series is over and write the staff at Studio Deen an ありがとうございました postcard - anything to let them know how much their work has touched a far-away life... But besides from giving them a giggle at my appalling Japanese, that's not really going to achieve much.)

Even putting such principles aside, the R2s are a treasure worth collecting - my copy of Volume 1 arrived yesterday, and they've done an exquisite job on the packaging. The VA game-show is a delight to watch (as on-disc extras go I'd put it up there with Hane Haeterun? and the Noir sock-puppets). I just hope someone's crazy enough to sub it!

The booklet is also lovely, but even more than the aesthetics it's the attention to detail that I adore - the character listings include all the nameless Sybillae from ep 1 and even the renshūseitachi (trainees). It's the same as with the OSTs, you feel like they've really made an effort to give fans their money's worth - which is more than I can say for a lot of anime merchandise...

If I look at the thing critically though, as in what I'd try to improve, the first thing is the very confusing episode 1 and the on-following introduction which is a bit hackenyed.

Having just watched eps1-2 on the DVD, I feel you're being a tad harsh. Yes, ep1 leaves a huge amount unanswered, but it works for me very much like ep1 of Haibane Renmei - its shadow remains as the story moves on, then you watch it again knowing what happens later and every moment is painful in its understated significance. Similarly, I reckon Shakugan no Shana introduced nearly as much jargon in its first couple of episodes and that doesn't seem to have stopped people enjoying it.

Spoiler:

As for ep2, well I'm not even going to pretend to be rational: it was hard enough containing my emotions when I first heard Simulacrum Kyūkoku on OST2 yesterday (tears on your keyboard is never a good look at work), and I freely admit to having a good undignified cry watching it in the privacy of my nerdatorium I find the Spring scene absolutely shattering, and the bleakness of Neviril's omedetō shows just how much impact a single word can have...

Spoiler:

And you got to admit, dere-Aeru would make for a cute bride .

Spoiler:

Agreed!

Spoiler for ep24:

I've only watched ep24 once so far, but, besides from Yun justifying all my belief in her, what grabbed me most was this scene - all the bubbly noise and life of the girls as they sort out lunch, yet visually it's just emptiness...

I know the story has to end, but it's kind of like waiting for the inevitable death of a loved one - I'm going to be a nervous wreck these next two weeks until I find out the exact manner of its ending. And then, I guess, comes the sadness and the fond memories. I was thinking back this morning to the April day I got up at 5am to watch ep1, and the thrill of knowing this anime was going to be something special - screw the sales figures, nothing can take that magic away.

[Seska]

Originally Posted by JiCi

Hope that help !


According to this, it appears to be a tactical RPG where to control each ship including the Messis and the Arcus Prima. It uses levels, hps and stuff. I presume that whoever is in the front of the Simoun, like Ael, with affect the movements and whoever is in the back of the Simoun, like Neviril, with attack powers and pattern strengths. The last screenshot looks good

From the looks of it, the game is set at least after Episode 10, as Rodreamon has cut her braids.

I would buy this game, but only if it comes to the US... Cause i cant read Katakana, Hiragana and Kanji. Yes, im a Romanji reader

if the game hits US , i import it right away to Germany

Or does someone here knows "LittelTokyo" in Duesseldorf Germany?

and for the Game. Someone knows "Stella Deus"? Great Story, great game. I loved to play it trough. (Yes, i have a PS2, too.)

Mfg,
Seska

[fignae]

The thought that the show is going to end depresses me, hence the hiding from this board. The feeling of being split between episodes is very disorienting, too. Yet another part of me can't wait till it ends so I can properly watch it in order from the beginning. I wonder if Simoun works better seen weekly or as a whole. Despite its episodic nature (scenes are short and appear self-contained), the story arcs do span many episodes and often return in the form of echoes, refrains that are variations of the same, with significant differences. I digress. I meant to say that I've enjoyed reading the many paeans to the series, like Simon's above. (Of course, I had to typo the name....) Nevertheless, I'll definitely be wanting to know what the seiyuu do next.

Therefore, somewhat OT news:
Part of the new anime season, Ayakashi Ayashi (天保異聞 妖奇士) appears to be yet another Edo period drama with heroes fighting demons. But what's interesting is Niino Michi's involvement in this series. The website says that her character, Saizou, was born in a Kabuki house and raised as a boy in order for her to take over the household, so her mannerisms are those of a boy. This character uses Kabuki props to fight monsters.

[Mgz]

seems like the show is gonna have a sad ending I guess T_T...awww

btw girl kissing each others then kissing some ballz rocks

[Futaba-chan]

Originally Posted by eggplant

Let's just say it's at a level which would prove difficult to warrant a sequel, as it would be below the break-even threshold for anime production cost.

As sad as I'm going to be in three weeks when there's no new Simoun episode, I don't think I'd want a sequel, assuming that my supposition that the series is going to come to a very definite ending is correct. A Simoun sequel would be like a Babylon 5 sequel (or Lain, or Haibane Renmei) -- the series told its story very completely, and ended, and there isn't really room for a true sequel. And we're getting a retrospective ending from years later, anyway.

A movie or short OAV series that told a prequel story, or a gaiden story set between episodes 2 and 6 or 9 and 12, might work, or an entirely separate story set on Daikuuriku, but as it is, Simoun seems just right. If they'd planned the thing to be 39 episodes from the beginning, that would have been another matter, but it would be hard to add to the main narrative itself.

[Futaba-chan]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Spoiler for ep24:

The "disconnection" that has been referred to is there to make us feel the situation. And it works.

Spoiler for episode 17:

One of the things that I thought worked brilliantly was how empty the return to the Arcus Prima felt after Dominura and Limone's disappearance. Chor Tempest is incomplete, the other two choirs are gone, and the ship feels empty and depressing. And nothing's the same any more. The Simoun aren't invincible, and the war is now going very badly.

Contrast that with episode 3, where despite half of Chor Tempest having been wiped out, the ship is a hive of activity, full of eager cadets, and there are Simoun and Simile buzzing around constantly in the skies. And fresh new faces have joined the choir, bringing a sense of optimism with them. It's the first step up from the nadir, rather than the beginning of a descent into a dark place.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by m000m000

I think it helps if you view the religious issue as Catholics Vs. Protestants or Orthodox. They're all still christians, have their origin and faith in the exact same thing and doctrine-wise there's scarce few real differences (That's not to say ugly wars haven't been fought over that already, but... )....

Unfortunately, the 16th and 17th centuries were filled with Protestant and Catholic "Christians" killing each other with great enthusiasm. I actually don't expect that to be part of the plot here, but in reality it probably could be. The Temple One has left Arcus Prima. Where did she go? What is she up to? Resistance?

Thanks, fignae, for the link to the new show Niino Michi is in. For her sake, I hate the thought that she's already typecast as a seiyuu. For my own sake I very much look forward to hearing her (as long as I can stand the show).

And thanks, Simon, for your post. I agree so wholeheartedly about episode 2. The Spring scene was overwhelming. Just thinking about the way Takahashi Rieko delivered that "omedetou" sends chills down my spine. Her speech to Aaeru in ep24 was also full of artistry and power. She apparently got good reviews for her part in recent stage performances of Goethe's Faust. The two leads in Simoun are both stage actresses, and it shows. The acting in this show was generally great: a combination of stage actresses (also Hosokoshi Michiko, who played Kaimu), good seiyuus (Koshimizu Ami, Toyoguchi Megumi, Kuwashima Houko, Yukana, Noto Mamiko and Takahashi Mikako are quite a line-up), and a grating but effective rookie (Furoe's VA, Aizawa Michiuru).

Originally Posted by fignae, quoted for truth

...the story arcs do span many episodes and often return in the form of echoes, refrains that are variations of the same, with significant differences....

Originally Posted by Futaba-chan

One of the things that I thought worked brilliantly was how empty the return to the Arcus Prima felt after Dominura and Limone's disappearance....

Subtle things like that help make this show great. Things that aren't emphasized, or even mentioned, but that burrow into your psyche.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I was just wondering if the show had eventually answered the questions we had early on. I've taken the liberty of recovering Futaba-chan's list of questions from Yui's page and posting them here for us to consider again, in case we have new answers now. And I've taken the further liberty of editing some of the answers, to update them and for brevity.

Spoiler for unanswered questions. Some spoilers for eps 23-24:

1. Are there ground-based Simoun, or is the force based on Arcus Prima (and hypothetical sister ships) all there is?
-- there were ground-based Simoun at Mamiina's village, near the Reikoku border.

2. Simulacrum appears to be able to manufacture Simile; can they build new Simoun, or is that a lost technology?
-- I'm not sure whether they need ancient helical motors to make simile or if they can manufacture single rings. And I'm not sure whether their Simouns are made from ancient motors or are actually found artefacts themselves. The difference between the standard vertically-oriented Simoun and the V-Simoun "of the ancients" makes me think Kyuukoku can make Simoun from ancient helical motors.

3. How significant a blow was the loss of Choir Caput? Was it a catastrophic loss of up to a quarter of an irreplaceable resource, or was it just the first of many skirmishes in a long war between two large forces?
-- a more significant loss than we realized at the time, but just the beginning: the loss of 2/3 of Prima's Simouns was devastating, and the loss of Niger was the end.

4. How big is Simulacrum? The Simoun appear to travel at subsonic speeds (similar to a first-generation jet fighter, perhaps?), and rely solely on visual sightings to detect opposing forces, and entire chor appear to operate together when they sortie. Is Arcus Prima's Simoun group actually providing full patrol coverage for the whole nation?
-- Futaba chan -- Simulacrum is large enough to have a railroad network, although it's possible to commute from the Citadel to the Spring or the Grand Temple and back in the same day. Arcus Prima isn't solely responsible for the entire country -- there are other ships in the fleet [Messis and Niger are the only ones we ever know about], and further Simoun choirs on the ground.

5. Does Simulacrum have other classes of aircraft besides Simoun and Simile? Are there air transports, for example?
-- Carriers like the Arcus ships and warships like Messis are the only ones we see.

6. How do personnel (Dominura, for example) travel between Arcus Prima and the ground?
-- mainly Simile, it appears, but also Messis-type craft and barges lifted by Simoun or Simile (ep7).

7. How do citizens of nations other than Simulacrum and Argentum deal with sex selection? Presumably, they don't come to Simulacrum's Spring... so what do they do?
-- not (yet) explained.

8. If Aaeru was a cadet at the southern front, and the Simoun are the only effective forces, and Aaeru had never flown a real Simoun before being assigned to the Arcus Prima, what forces are engaged on that front? Mass-produced Simile? Simoun that Aaeru just wasn't assigned to? Some sort of ground troops?
-- There was at least one Simoun at Mamiina's village, so why not at Aaeru's? That seems strange to me, too. Aaeru was flying her grandfather's Simile, so at least those exist. And there were definitely some (apparently quite ineffective) ground troops at Mamiina's village.

9. If Argentum and Simulacrum share a land border, why did the Argentine fleet need to cross the ocean to attack in the first episode?
-- Argentum is overseas ("Reef Nation") and Reikoku is in the mountains.
-- I read in a magazine piece that there are many nations on Daikuuriku, so I wonder why we haven't heard anything about the others.

10. Are parachutes a lost technology?
-- Yui -- 1. Not used because of religion and cultural evasion. Simoun is a craft for the GOD, used for a religious rite to the last. Attaching escape equipment might be profanity (as the Sibyllae considered the boxes for transporting soldiers). 2. Pride and the Ostrich algorithm

11. Is the Ri Maajon image in one Simoun's gem repeated in the gems of other Simoun in the same choir?
-- Futaba chan -- "Yes."

12. We've seen the Sibyllae, Wapourif's maintenance crew, and the bridge crew. How many more crew members are needed to operate the Arcus Prima?.
-- Futaba chan -- Quite a few, judging from the number of coffins from personnel killed in the suicide bombing, the number of their shipmates at the funeral, and the easy availability of crew members to carry extra furniture into Neville's stateroom at Halconf's bidding.


13. Do other nations also adhere to the religion of the Tempus-Spatium, or is that unique to Simulacrum?
-- Reikoku's religion is very similar, just calling the deity by another name.

14. Does Simulacrum have the highest level of left-over lost technology, or are there other states with different kinds of applied phlebotinum?
-- there's no indication that any other nation has advanced ancient technology

15. Is the Ri Maajon magic, technology, or a miracle?
-- I'm going on the basis of "technology," but the evaporation of Onashia seemed miraculous. Drawing the right pattern with the Simoun Gem may interact with a spacetime field of some kind.

16. What is the large cone-shaped hill in the opening credits? The one covered with buildings, with a cantilever airstrip and some other projection sticking out of it? I've been calling it the "citadel," but what is its actual function?
-- the Grand Temple

17. What is that other funny thing sticking out of the citadel, that angles up into the sky at a thirty to forty-five degree angle?
-- another landing strip/drydock

18.Are there other interesting places on the ground in Simulacrum besides the Spring and the citadel?
-- the Ruins

19. Is the water surrounding the citadel a river, a lake, or an estuary? Do the boats on it trade with other nations?
-- Since the magazine page said that Simulacrum had no seas, I guess the citadel hill is in an isolated lake in the mountains.

20. How open are Simulacrum's borders for trade with other nations?
-- Futaba chan -- The country is surrounded by mountains, but there are some nomadic tribes that wander back and forth across the Plumbish border. Whether or not there are trade routes to other civilized nations is a nice question....

21. Are there Argentine spies hidden among the population, trying to steal technological secrets?
-- There's been no definite indication, but it seems likely, especially near the borders, where the nomads pass back and forth. And I wouldn't be surprised if something funny was happening at The Centre, too.

21. Is Onashia really the head of state, or is "Grand Shrine Empress" just a courtesy title?
-- Futaba chan -- Yes, she appears to be the head of state. How far-reaching her powers are remains to be seen, but people defer to her. (It appears that her political powers are limited, since she was not apparently involved in the final peace negotiations. But her apparent association with the Reikoku miko shows she has other, greater powers.)

22. What other clergy does the religion of the Tempus-Spatium have? Do retired Sibylla who have spent their formative years as priestesses frequently take religious vows?
-- Futaba chan -- There appears to be a group of adult priestesses (or other high officials) who dress in red. We saw a few of them in the first episode.

23. Aren't other nations worried about the rise of the Argentum war machine? Might Simulacrum find allies somewhere?
-- one of many lacunae in the military/political background

24. How do the dragonfly fighters land?
-- unknown

25. How are the dragonfly fighters recovered aboard their carriers?
-- unknown

26. How do the dragonfly fighters work? It doesn't look like the "wings" would provide enough lift -- is it supposed to be a lifting body shape?
-- seems an unreasonable shape to me, too

27. Can anyone fly a Simile, or is it also limited to Sibylla who haven't chosen a sex?
-- since Anubituf flew one, it seems that it is not limited to sibyllae or those who have not gone to the spring. in ep24, Reikoku soldiers are said to have gone after Yun, and they couldn;t have done that without air transport, possibly Simile.

28.Do the Simoun have a maximum range?
-- Seska's hypothesis -- As far as i know, their Gems dry only out if they make the Ri Maajons. Theoretically, they can fly as long they don't do too many Ri Maajons (Episode 01). The source of energy for the crystal must be the Pilots.... "you must pilote the Simoun with your body and soul" (some place in a Pool scene...) Body = direct piloting... and Soul perhaps for Ri Maajon and "engage" of them.
-- I read something that suggested they can only fly over Kyuukoku. Not sure.

29. Limone watches a performance of the Silver Ri Maajon, but it doesn't detonate. Likewise, Aaeru's practice runs don't appear to have had any expectation of a detonation. Is there something that the Sibylla do to produce warlike effects from otherwise peaceful Ri Maajon?
-- Seska's hypothesis -- They need "the will to kill" to turn these Ri Maajons for real... (Episode 01, can be a possibility why she said "dont look into his eyes, you will lose the will to kill)

30. Has Simulacrum given any thought to carrying the war to the Argentum Coral nation homeland? Consider the effect of the Silver Ri Maajon over the Argentine airship docks, or the factory that produces the dragonfly fighters....
-- they may just not have considered it, or they may indeed be a limit to the Simouns' range. Or it may just be an insufficiently thought-out aspect of the military background.

31. Was Mamiina the Regina of Choir Ignis, or just one of the regular members?
-- she was a great pilot, but there was never any indication that she was Regina

32. Does "Sibylla Aurea" mean that Neville was merely the best pilot aboard Arcus Prima, or does that make her #1 across the entire Simoun fleet everywhere? How is the holder of this office chosen?
-- she's It for the whole country.

33. Why is Yun the only Chor Tempest member who doesn't appear in the opening credits? (And is there anything special about the unidentified maintenance technician in the background of the Floe/Morinas shot?)
-- I wonder if her story was developed only as the show continued. In any case, she did get into the OP eventually. And I love that little waving figure, but I don't think she has any special significance. Maybe she's Nishida Asako (the character designer and animation director).

34. Did Floe and Alti cause the failure of the Iron (Tetsu) Ri Maajon in the battle against the Argentine airship fleet? They did one more Ri Maajon (the Shark) than the rest of the choir, and they were the ones whose gem was running out of power....
-- I think the enemy fleet prevented them from getting in position to draw the pattern

35. How many Simulacrans make choices at the Spring that they later regret? How does that compare with present-day Earth? What do they do about it?
-- unknown, but easy to guess: they sometimes regret their choice but just have to live with it. Numbers unknown. As far as what they do about it is concerned, we don't know the prevalence of same-sex relationships in Kyuukoku.

36. Is everyone heterosexual after going to the Spring? Are there same-sex romantic relationships, or is that discouraged, or channeled into opposite choices when couples go to the Spring together?
-- unknown. Let's watch Anubituf/Guraghief (and maybe Morinas/Waporif) to find out.

37. How durable are the Simoun helical motors? Were the ones from Chor Caput's downed Simoun from the first battle salvageable?
-- apparently unsalvageable

38. Does the Tempus Spatium have a gender?
-- Futaba-chan: there's an enormous goddess figure on the wall above Anubituf's captain's chair on the bridge, and on the bow of every Simoun

39. Was Amuria involved in the conspiracy that Dominura is part of? Are they trying to find a pair of Sibyllae capable of performing the Emerald Ri Maajon?
-- unknown. By late episodes, the Temple One is looking for a pair who can do it, but in earlier episodes, it looks like Dominura is cooperating with the military faction to do it.

40. What were the names of the two Sibyllae who were killed in the opening battle? What about the pair who went to the Spring later in the episode? Why don't their friends (and nakama) ever talk about them?
-- unknown. I think they don't talk about them because it would confuse the plot and our learning of characters.

41. Who are Rodoreamon's parents, and why is everyone so deferential to her? Neville is Halconf's daughter, but people don't call her ojou-sama as a result -- is that just because everyone already respects her for being the Sibylla Aurea? Are Rodoreamon and Onashia related?
-- I think Rodore is from a great aristocratic family. Halconf may just be a successful bourgeois. No indication of connection between Onashia and Rodore.

42. Is there class conflict in Simulacrum? (Other than Mamiina, I mean.)
-- Martin -- I think it's extremely likely that there is. If only descendants of distinguished families normally become Sibyllae, than it's not a stretch to assume that the case is the same for the other high-ranked priestess and they seem to hold a lot of power. I would assume there are a lot of people who feel like Mamina (maybe not in such a dramatic way, though.

43. Does everyone in Simulacrum adhere to the religion of the Tempus Spatium, or are there minority religions? Are other religions suppressed?
-- unknown, but it looks as if Tempus Spatium is the only religion.

44. What other political factions exist with in Simulacrum? Are there political dissidents?
-- unknown. I'd speculate that there is the peace party (the priestesses), the war party (the military),and that there are some dissidents among the population.

45. I don't think I've ever seen either of the helical motors on the Arcus Prima spinning. What are they for?
-- I think they're covered so we can't see them even if they do spin. Not sure.

46. Messis doesn't look like she has a helical motor, and Arcus Prima doesn't seem to use the ones that she has. How do they fly?
-- I think they both have single helical motors.

47. Argentum lost 15-20 carrier zeppelins in the first battle. What fraction of their fleet does that represent?
-- unknown, but they clearly have a large manufacturing capacity (cf. USA in WWII).

48. Is Daikuuriku the homeworld of the main characters, or is it a forgotten space colony?
-- unknown, but I think the latter (or something else)

49. Why were the Plumbish priestesses so motivated to carry out their suicide attack?
-- religious reasons, under the influence of the power structure. But the malleability of religious principle is indicated by the fact that they themselves are willing to fly Simoun in war to destroy the Kyuukoku Simoun. But they did not take part in the attack on the Grand Temple.

50. Did the male peace negotiators know what was going to happen?
-- It didn't look like it to me, but it's uncertain.

51. Are these Argentum 's flying Bomb has Proximity fuze or V.T. Fuse (Magic fuse) and guided by gyro? Similer to The Fieseler Fi 103/FZG-76 (Vergeltungswaffe-1, V-1), known as the Flying bomb)
-- Guppy's opinion to the first half question -- If they were using VT fuses, shouldn't the first wave have detonated above the water instead of under it?
-- Futaba chan -- Yep. Those look almost exactly like the V-1. Interestingly, though, the wings were vertical, rather than horizontal; perhaps whatever alternate aerospace technology is letting the dragonfly fighters fly without conventional wings is also at work on these? In any event, they certainly seem to be derived from the dragonfly fighter airframe....

[Futaba-chan]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

19. Is the water surrounding the citadel a river, a lake, or an estuary? Do the boats on it trade with other nations?
-- Since the magazine page said that Simulacrum had no seas, I guess the citadel hill is in an isolated lake in the mountains.

Further analysis of other footage implies that the magazine statement about Simulacrum being landlocked is incorrect (or, more likely, they changed their minds). Early episodes clearly show the Arcus Prima departing from the Grand Temple and heading out to sea.

21. Is Onashia really the head of state, or is "Grand Shrine Empress" just a courtesy title?

Episode 24 had more to say on that point....

38. Does the Tempus Spatium have a gender?
-- Futaba-chan: there's an enormous goddess figure on the wall above Anubituf's captain's chair on the bridge, and on the bow of every Simoun

Surprise! Tempus Spatium is...

Spoiler:

...plural. And I'm guessing that their gender is eien no shoujo, rather than male or female.

[Mizkyu]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

7. How do citizens of nations other than Simulacrum and Argentum deal with sex selection? Presumably, they don't come to Simulacrum's Spring... so what do they do?
-- not (yet) explained.

In episode 4 (I think?), a pilot for one of the enemy states (I forget which one) explained that his country forced him to became male, possibly at a young age, through surgery and hormone therapy.