(L) Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ (Nitroplus & Bee Train)

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Do you base that on reports, or just on the facts that viewership and DVD sales have been so poor? They might not have known how badly it would do when they wrote the script for this ep.

And I still don't understand why the show was so unpopular, when I liked it so much. Maybe it just didn't push the right buttons for people who like this genre, whereas it did for me, someone who doesn't watch this kind of show that much.

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

Phantom told the story they wanted to tell and I don't expect them to go making up new material just for the sake of continuing the story.

This pretty much sums it up. The source material is complete. The best we'd get are OVAs for other path endings.

[totoum]

The gunshot at the end doesn't bother me,I find less of a DeM than what Hitchcock did in "Vertigo" for exemple(I know it's not anime,but it's the first exemple that came to mind)

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

Wrong, he can sense danger. He can sense things even before it happens. He has like precognition.

In episode 20 if Cal actually decides to shoot him when he's on the bench with Mio instead of just giving him a warning then he's dead meat,she managed to pull up right in from of him pull out a gun and shoot without him noticing anything wrong until the shot went off.

[The1]

Originally Posted by totoum

In episode 20 if Cal actually decides to shoot him when he's on the bench with Mio instead of just giving him a warning then he's dead meat,she managed to pull up right in from of him pull out a gun and shoot without him noticing anything wrong until the shot went off.

You are right about this...He was totally into that date with Mio...Cal could have killed him at that time, so he came to know what would happen if he let his guard down. With this experience and his survival instinct he would never let his guard down again, at least that is my rational thinking.


So in the last scene he gets shot by a random guy who rides a noisy cart... I can even take that part. The one and only part that really pisses me off of is that we don't get solid proof if they are dead indeed...No pool of blood, no Reiji lying down in the grass with bloody clothes no nothing. Same goes for Elen in the last few seconds...

It's like BeeTrain said: "Well we shot the protagonist, but it's not known if he's dead... "

Way to go BeeTrain... You can't even kill em right. :/

[orion]

They should have just given us the true ending and not embellish it imo. 128 pages and still arguing over it can't be good for sales imo.

Originally Posted by DVD sales thread

Phantom～Requiem for the Phantom～ *2,019 (3+) (Bee Train/FUNimation)
2009/07/24 *2,137 Mission-1 Limited Edition (Two episodes)
2009/08/25 *2,187 Mission-2 (Three episodes up to current volume)
2009/09/25 *1,733 Mission-3

Yep., continues to drop into obscurity.

[Nayrael]

They should have just given us the true ending and not embellish it imo.

But it is the true ending. It is the True Ending of Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom.

it can't be good for sales imo.

If they cared for such stuff so much we wouldn't have gotten those two recaps episodes. It seems that they make what they want, not what others want.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Nayrael

If they cared for such stuff so much we wouldn't have gotten those two recaps episodes. It seems that they make what they want, not what others want.

A company that doesn't care about sales. That's always a sign of impending success.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by The1

The one and only part that really pisses me off of is that we don't get solid proof if they are dead indeed...No pool of blood, no Reiji lying down in the grass with bloody clothes no nothing. Same goes for Elen in the last few seconds...

About Reiji,I would think he died on the spot,if he didn't then I can't comprehend why he wouldn't try to yell out to Ellen that he's been shot and to run after that cart,after all it isn't exactly going really fast.So to me,if I went the ending to make sense I've got to believe that he died the instant he got shot.

For Ellen,go figure...

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Nayrael

If they cared for such stuff so much we wouldn't have gotten those two recaps episodes. It seems that they make what they want, not what others want.

Recaps are usually used to help viewers who jump aboard late or miss some episodes (i.e. good buzz now convincing them to try the show again, especially when everyone's all excited after the climax of an arc). It is not a sign of making what they want but a hopeful way to squeeze extra sales.

Originally Posted by orion

can't be good for sales imo.

Maybe, but it's irrelevant. Failure is determined with Volume 1 pre-orders, and if a show fails, it fails before any DVD has hit the streets.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by GDB

A company that doesn't care about sales. That's always a sign of impending success.

Take it for what it's worth since it's coming from wikipedia but "Koichi Mashimo's goal when he founded Bee Train was to create a "hospital for animators", an animation studio interested in nurturing young talents and artistic quality of production rather than in corporate strategies and profit."

[TJR]

Originally Posted by totoum

Take it for what it's worth since it's coming from wikipedia but "Koichi Mashimo's goal when he founded Bee Train was to create a "hospital for animators", an animation studio interested in nurturing young talents and artistic quality of production rather than in corporate strategies and profit."

It's just an ideal. Problem is that someone else foots the bill, so there's rarely real freedom. They make the shows on behalf of other companies, so you'd better believe that sales matter. No sales = no contracts = no way of making more anime. The difference is whether you plainly shoot for the market norm, or whether you shoot for the the market norm with innovative style.

Phantom is also an adaptation (one that followed the source closely), so it's merely filler between true studio projects. It keeps people employed, but it's not what a creative studio really cares about.

[The1]

Originally Posted by totoum

About Reiji,I would think he died on the spot,if he didn't then I can't comprehend why he wouldn't try to yell out to Ellen that he's been shot and to run after that cart,after all it isn't exactly going really fast.So to me,if I went the ending to make sense I've got to believe that he died the instant he got shot.

I agree that might be the case. Still i don't understand why didn't they show corpus delicti. It's just implied that he died and not that he actually is dead... That's why i flame BeeTrain all along.

If they showed him lying on the ground dead it would still have been as tragic as it is but it would end properly. But no they just had to show Elen lying like that on the grass, an empty casing and a flower with missing leaf from the blossom...

[Buktheng]

Good series but this had the worst ending of all time. Why in the world would you show him being killed in the end after all they went through to get where they were and show no explanation? Are you serious?

[klare]

Originally Posted by The1

I agree that might be the case. Still i don't understand why didn't they show corpus delicti. It's just implied that he died and not that he actually is dead... That's why i flame BeeTrain all along.

If they showed him lying on the ground dead it would still have been as tragic as it is but it would end properly. But no they just had to show Elen lying like that on the grass, an empty casing and a flower with missing leaf from the blossom...

why they are not shown as confirmed dead? most likely its a business decision

just in case (altho highly impossible) in the future they decide to continue the story with these 2 chars

[Kakkou]

Unconfirmed deaths are as common as open endings in anime. That way the producers don't have to take a side and leave the viewers to believe what they want to believe. Cop out, but in some cases it works while others don't. Just like in a certain popular 2 season 2006-2008 Sunrise anime where _______ was shown to be killed but fans were split between those who believed __ died.

[Vampire]

Originally Posted by Kakkou

Unconfirmed deaths are as common as open endings in anime. That way the producers don't have to take a side and leave the viewers to believe what they want to believe. Cop out, but in some cases it works while others don't. Just like in a certain popular 2 season 2006-2008 Sunrise anime where _______ was shown to be killed but fans were split between those who believed __ died.

Quick guess:

Spoiler for guess:

Code Geass, LULU DID NOT DIE!!!!111

It's a good way to market stuff and keep the fans debating = interested and also pissed.

[Xander]

I don't think they're seriously trying to leave anything open for a sequel though, since there's nothing else to the main story aside from animating a different route and even that would simply involve going over much of the same ground. It's more of a stylistic or directorial choice.

[Hijiroku]

Just watched the series in one sitting fucking ending made me sad note to self:don't watch deep/dark/romance stories with sad endings and sad music to compensate.

I also noticed they didn't show how the bloodie's leader died she looked like she was point at the face but I see no bullet holes, I also find a silencer in a field like that to be unnecessary. and considering there was only one casing, its either only reiji died or it went through him and got both of them.

I believe the main story behind this is, don't walk down dark creepy alley ways while on a vacation(sarcasm). Though personally I would be delighted to be a assassin, but the main problem would be is deciding on a style of assassination, Id probably go with something like a katana, knife, and a Jericho 941, and a personal favorite being some sort of Long-range sniper.

This show has just left me depressed.


TBH I wouldn't have know about this anime if it wasn't for phantom and requiem being in the name.

[Joe_fh]

Indeed a great anime. I haven't been moved by a story this much for a while. The pace was great. The characters animation and music were all amazing.
I've watchde many animes with sad ends and despite that I'm moved every time I see something like this. It was a really sad story with a sad end. The main cast was really good. Even if they were assassins they wanted to be more human. We were show a world where the lives are people mean nothing and some of the people that take those lives and what theey go through - their dreams that can never come true. It was very touching.

I must say every episode of this was really well done and served a purpose. The arc that I think developed the characters the most was the Tony Stone one and I must say the story with Cal was the saddest for me. That of course doesn't mean the other episodes were less interesting - not at all. It was made in such a way that every little thing hade a role to play or served to show a glipse of that worl or the dreams of the people in it.

The end really got me. I was expecting something to happen but I was hoping for them to at least find some happiness in the end. And the did for only a moment. Reiji was able to keep his promise in the end and Elen smiled from her heart for the first time. Both of those pretty much closed the plot for both characters. We were never shown if they died or not. It's left for us the viewers to decide that. I personally believe they both died. And the both died happy. I'm not so sure about Elen but I think it's better for her to have died there. She was really happy for the first time and she wanted to live with Reiji- because of him and for him.
Since he was killed if she was left alive she would go through hell again and I personally wouldn't want to see that.

Either way the end was a really memorable scene with all the little details- the wind, the sky, the vast plains, the sunset....it was like they were the only ones in the world - a world in which their dreams were reality.

All in all it was indeed a great anime - really leaves you asking for more - not because the end might seem open to some, but because of the great characters and the overall setting of the series.
It was really sad though, really sad.

[Frog80]

Is there any japanese in this forum who have heard creators explaining the ending? The ending is very irritating. It doesn't matter how you interpret the ending because it still conflicts with what the characters say. I need to understand what happened and what's the logic behind the ending. This ending really bugs me and I can't get peace until the creators stand up and explain themselves.

[Joe_fh]

Originally Posted by Frog80

Is there any japanese in this forum who have heard creators explaining the ending? The ending is very irritating. It doesn't matter how you interpret the ending because it still conflicts with what the characters say. I need to understand what happened and what's the logic behind the ending. This ending really bugs me and I can't get peace until the creators stand up and explain themselves.

Well from what I've heard they pretty much say it's up to us to decde if they survived or not. Though I think it wouldn make sense for them to survive under those circumstances and with the whole tone the anime set as I explained erlier. But that's just my view...there are a lot of ideas out there... just pick one you think is most plausible.
Or we could discuss the ending from top to bottom again