AnimeSuki Forums

Scy · 2004-07-23, 10:14

Ok, these Naruto Speed Sub warnings have been going on for days, and I can't help be wonder: it is really necessary to have these warnings? Consider these points:

1) Some of these "speed subs" can't really be called speed subs cause they are either a) Better versions of previous subs or b) Released too late to be called a speed sub. The Koi & AGA version, for example, is released two days after the Naruto eps has been broadcast. Is it really fair to label them speedsubs?

2)"Speedsubbing" has been going on for a long time already. Does a vistor of this site really need all those "speed sub" warnings? They would already know what they are downloading, either a sub by an anonymous group or a sub by an established group. They would already be aware that if they download from these anonymous groups the quality might be bad. Why warn them?

3) What exactly is the definition of a speed sub? A Naruto episode not released by ANBU/AONE? It is very unfair to label these groups as "speedsub" groups because of that. Some of these groups produced works that are of really bad quality, but there are also some that produced works that are of good quality. Animeheaven, for example, produced a very bad quality for their Naruto 91, but their Naruto 92 was very good.
And of course, all these warnings so far are only for Naruto eps. Are we going to see similar warnings for other series? If so, how are you going to define the term speedsub?

4) What's the harm of downloading these speedsub eps? They are neither parodies or fakes.

I can understand that a lot of people here hate these new groups that suddenly pop up to sub Naruto just because ANBU/AONE has been slow in releasing the eps. However, I can't help but be annoyed by these warnings that are appearing and wonder what's the purpose of them. Much of the fansub community has always looked down on people that suddenly try to "hijack" the work of another group, but I hope you guys can understand that these people are just catering to the group of people that are inpatient and don't mind downloading stuff that are of lower quality.

JustAnotherFan · 2004-07-23, 10:44

In case you missed it: only Anime-Heavens 91 has the speedsub warning. The rest only states that the "quality might be risky".

1) to 3) are based on a "speedsub" tag which isn't used (anymore), so I am going to skip answering them.

To answer point 4): The harm is that some mistranslations can change the meaning significantly. If you for example mistranslate 3 days as 3 weeks and relate it to one week then it's quite a difference whether the time was cut short by 2/3 or more than doubled. You might not care, others do. I guess you see that people who have metered access aren't too happy about 200MB lost.

A few generic comments:

At first it was worded differently and there was a pointer to a forums post explaining that note, but it put to much strain on the forum when 20000 people want to read a post within an hour.

If we wait until the quality is verified then most people don't care about that release anymore, if we put it up and it's bad then people are unhappy about lost time/transfer/whatever. You often see in the Naruto threads: "it's up on AnimeSuki so it's ok" or "it's not up, so we better not download it".

So we thought it would be the best to put it up but with a warning label. As you might have noticed the label only says (in most cases): "Quality might be risky". It's just so you know there MIGHT be a risk involved.

Every new group starting with Naruto as their first public project gets that label for their first few releases now.

I don't think it's unfair. If you have a better idea (other than hiring a professional translator to check every episode), feel free to share.

Slade · 2004-07-23, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scy

Ok, these Naruto Speed Sub warnings have been going on for days, and I can't help be wonder: it is really necessary to have these warnings? Consider these points:

1) Some of these "speed subs" can't really be called speed subs cause they are either a) Better versions of previous subs or b) Released too late to be called a speed sub. The Koi & AGA version, for example, is released two days after the Naruto eps has been broadcast. Is it really fair to label them speedsubs?

2)"Speedsubbing" has been going on for a long time already. Does a vistor of this site really need all those "speed sub" warnings? They would already know what they are downloading, either a sub by an anonymous group or a sub by an established group. They would already be aware that if they download from these anonymous groups the quality might be bad. Why warn them?

3) What exactly is the definition of a speed sub? A Naruto episode not released by ANBU/AONE? It is very unfair to label these groups as "speedsub" groups because of that. Some of these groups produced works that are of really bad quality, but there are also some that produced works that are of good quality. Animeheaven, for example, produced a very bad quality for their Naruto 91, but their Naruto 92 was very good.
And of course, all these warnings so far are only for Naruto eps. Are we going to see similar warnings for other series? If so, how are you going to define the term speedsub?

4) What's the harm of downloading these speedsub eps? They are neither parodies or fakes.

I can understand that a lot of people here hate these new groups that suddenly pop up to sub Naruto just because ANBU/AONE has been slow in releasing the eps. However, I can't help but be annoyed by these warnings that are appearing and wonder what's the purpose of them. Much of the fansub community has always looked down on people that suddenly try to "hijack" the work of another group, but I hope you guys can understand that these people are just catering to the group of people that are inpatient and don't mind downloading stuff that are of lower quality.

Well, I don't see the harm in just warning. If animesuki did not put up speed-sub torrents, that could be different but since it's just harmless warnings, I don't see anytyhing wrong with it.

In fact, to assume that everyone knows that those subs might be unreliable as they download them might be assuming too much. Certainly most people would but there are still people new to the fansub world and might not know. Often when people say "speed-subs" there are often timing, video and translation issues.

Of course I still appreciate the hardwork most of these new sub groups are putting into their subs but still, people should be aware and a warning doesn't pose any harm to anyone.

I say it was a good idea to to put the warnings and they should continue to keep it.

Thany · 2004-07-23, 10:47

Have you ever heard of the FFS fansub of Naruto?
It's a good example of the fact that most Naruto fanboys aren't even caring about what they download.
At least, if there is this warning, they won't have to whine about the quality or anything else about that fansub.

whatever123 · 2004-07-23, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thany

Have you ever heard of the FFS fansub of Naruto?
It's a good example of the fact that most Naruto fanboys aren't even caring about what they download.
At least, if there is this warning, they won't have to whine about the quality or anything else about that fansub.

yeah that sub resulted in a disaster

anyways i am curious why would this rule apply only for naruto and not for all risky fansub released? that would certainly help a lot of new non-naruto fans in choosing which sub to download

jennwenn · 2004-07-23, 11:55

I like the idea. If a new group can prove their quality, then maybe they won't need that label warning label anymore.

Heck, if Animesuki could do this to other series too it would be helpful, but I don't think there are any other fansubs that are going through the same thing as Naruto. Few other series are even being subbed by more than 2 groups.

hunterx · 2004-07-23, 12:02

the original poster has a point though. If you're going to do it just don't do it by the anime show. Imho it would be better to do it by the group, so all the group's releases have a warning about quality until it is generally accepted than the quality of their subs are good. The it is now only naruto eps have the warning and every group except anbu has the warning, ie if you're not ANBU you are automatically crap

stpehen · 2004-07-23, 12:26

What's wrong with a Caveat Emptor policy?

AG3 · 2004-07-23, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by stpehen

What's wrong with a Caveat Emptor policy?

People with slow connections and/or limited monthly capacity usually don't appreciate wasting a few hundred megs on downloads that even the most Japanese illiterate person can see is total crap (or sub-par, for some people the difference between the two is non-existant), and they tend to be very vocal about it in the forums.

Putting up a warning will let people who don't have free downloads/lots of patience reserve their bandwith for better bets, while those who care mostly about speed take the gamble. It could be good, it could be sub-par, it could be horrible. Either way, less people will bitch about having wasted their precious bandwith limit, which is all good and well.

Not that I really care, I don't watch Naruto, and I wouldn't be caught dead in the Naruto forum (if I went there, I would probably wish I was).

**monir** · 2004-07-23, 13:09

Booo! The master Bard-man. Booo! AG3 is just afraid of getting shot down by some two year old who writes "u sux0r".

Quote:

anyways i am curious why would this rule apply only for naruto and not for all risky fansub released? that would certainly help a lot of new non-naruto fans in choosing which sub to download

In all fairness, Naruto is the only series that is being subbed regularly by at least three groups. The groups that are releasing fast usually has the room for improvement in some aspect of Fansubbing. Yes, as you have said, there are other series that are also coming out fairly quick, but those groups have already established themselves among the fans that follow/watch their version.

whatever123 · 2004-07-23, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by monir

Booo! The master Bard-man. Booo! AG3 is just afraid of getting shot down by some two year old who writes "u sux0r".

In all fairness, Naruto is the only series that is being subbed regularly by at least three groups. The groups that are releasing fast usually has the room for improvement in some aspect of Fansubbing. Yes, as you have said, there are other series that are also coming out fairly quick, but those groups have already established themselves among the fans that follow/watch their version.

yeah i do realize the need for naruto, but i was saying why wouldn't the same applies for all other new groups.

i mean if a new group poped up subbing a new series and were the only one who released the latest episode of the new series wouldn't a risky warning be appropriate so that others could judge if this episode deserves to be downloaded or not?

**monir** · 2004-07-23, 13:58

As far as I know, AnimeSuki has made similar such warning to atleast on one other Fansubbing group and they were the only one that subbed Combustible Campus Guardess. I also heard, putting the warning was a mutual sentiment expressed both by AnimeSuki and the fansubbing group that did that show. Now, if there is an unknown group that has decided to sub a certain show no other group is doing than I believe the fans will give them the benefit of the doubt, i.e when we suck started subbing Popotan, most of the fans didn't know about this group. Fans downloaded their version and found the overall quality of their fansubbing was excellent. I am sure there are few other such examples. After all, AnimeSuki's policies tend to reflect the popular consensus of the fans.

Secca · 2004-07-23, 13:58

I think it's a bit harsh labeling them as "risky". I mean you can just put "speedsub" I'm sure alot of people will understand what it means too.

Risky just sounds a bit negative. ^^

***NightWish*** · 2004-07-23, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secca

I think it's a bit harsh labeling them as "risky". I mean you can just put "speedsub" I'm sure a lot of people will understand what it means too.

Yes on that I agree... I'm not sure where the word risky came from... originally I thought we were just going to go with "unchecked", although technically you are taking a risk when you download it as you are taking a risk when you download anything... it is just a matter of how much risk and how prepared you are to take it.

To answer...

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatever123

...why wouldn't the same applies for all other new groups

Technically it does, but we don't tend to get the same volume of new groups or range of quality from other shows. Naruto's popularity has resulted in a lot of people wanting to try their hand at fan subbing. This intern has produced quite a range of "quality" and a number of "fake" subs. Basically most other shows and groups working on other shows are less prone to these "issues"; although not exempt. I like to think of it as a balance between damage limitation and extra work for the staff.

Yogo_Pogo · 2004-07-23, 15:10

if they want quality they just have to wait for the fansubs group to correctly finish it. What's the hurry? Does Naruto have subliminal addictive message in it?

whatever123 · 2004-07-23, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by monir

As far as I know, AnimeSuki has made similar such warning to atleast on one other Fansubbing group and they were the only one that subbed Combustible Campus Guardess. I also heard, putting the warning was a mutual sentiment expressed both by AnimeSuki and the fansubbing group that did that show. Now, if there is an unknown group that has decided to sub a certain show no other group is doing than I believe the fans will give them the benefit of the doubt, i.e when we suck started subbing Popotan, most of the fans didn't know about this group. Fans downloaded their version and found the overall quality of their fansubbing was excellent. I am sure there are few other such examples. After all, AnimeSuki's policies tend to reflect the popular consensus of the fans.

if it was the only group subbing a series then we don't have any choice in choosing and the warning would be pretty much useless

but if i recall corectly before midori no hibi came out a couple of groups mentioned that they would sub it, one of the first group that did sub it was this group "^_^" (i think they later called themselves aoi-anime, which was an old group that stoped subbing) it was one of thier first releases and their quality wasn't really good (as they admitted themselve because there was a problem with the translator) so such a warning would be helpfull for people who don't know much about fan-sub groups

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWish

Yes on that I agree... I'm not sure where the word risky came from... originally I thought we were just going to go with "unchecked", although technically you are taking a risk when you download it as you are taking a risk when you download anything... it is just a matter of how much risk and how prepared you are to take it.

To answer...
Technically it does, but we don't tend to get the same volume of new groups or range of quality from other shows. Naruto's popularity has resulted in a lot of people wanting to try their hand at fan subbing. This intern has produced quite a range of "quality" and a number of "fake" subs. Basically most other shows and groups working on other shows are less prone to these "issues"; although not exempt. I like to think of it as a balance between damage limitation and extra work for the staff.

and that answers my question

JOJOS'STAR · 2004-07-23, 17:37

I agree that those groups starting with Naruto as their first release should have warning but not on the side in the main animesuki.com page, but in the video and made by the groups themselves. I find it a bit odd to download a cheap version(cause this is what it sounds like: Quality might be risky).
I'm watching Naruto with less entousiasm then before cause of that. The warning for example, the old Bakasan quick versions that wasnt very far from those new ones, didn't had one for it and was good that way cause people don't mind seing quick release. Everybody know that they are Q.R. once they saw one anyway. It looks like with those ugly warning quick releases are cheaper then before..
Quick releases, quality risky, I ate those termes You know what I prefer those cheap releases to Ambu/Aone. You should rerspect everyone's preference by asking the group starting to do their own warning instead of putting dirt on their name on their first try by making those ugly warning on the main page. This is no respect for subbers and it looks awfull on Animesuki.com.

Shadowlord · 2004-07-23, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnotherFan

A few generic comments:

If we wait until the quality is verified then most people don't care about that release anymore, if we put it up and it's bad then people are unhappy about lost time/transfer/whatever. You often see in the Naruto threads: "it's up on AnimeSuki so it's ok" or "it's not up, so we better not download it".

So we thought it would be the best to put it up but with a warning label. As you might have noticed the label only says (in most cases): "Quality might be risky". It's just so you know there MIGHT be a risk involved.

I think it is very unfair to label an episode risky quality if you haven't even looked at it. Just because an unknown group desides to come out because we are tired of waiting 4 days for the episode to be subbed by a reputable group. If you are going to label something as risky, at least look at the wuality, its not hard, a quick skim through would be all thats needed, and I'm sure that taking 30 minutes to review the vid before posting a link to it on the website, wouldn't be too time consuming.

***NightWish*** · 2004-07-23, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlord

I'm sure that taking 30 minutes to review the vid before posting a link to it on the website, wouldn't be too time consuming.

Well... we do try but you have to actually download the video first... We don't always have the time or bandwidth to do that. Certainly not for every video we list... and even when we do the delay often causes us more problems with people complaining about their video not being listed yet... from our perspective the rewards of making that a policy for all videos just isn't worth the hassle.

boneyjellyfish · 2004-07-23, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scy

The Koi & AGA version, for example, is released two days after the Naruto eps has been broadcast. Is it really fair to label them speedsubs?

...

What exactly is the definition of a speed sub? A Naruto episode not released by ANBU/AONE?

TWO DAYS after release isn't a speed sub? That's the most ridiculous idea I've read here in a while. Why don't you go watch a show other than Naruto and you'll see that, for many of them at least, the rate of release is at least a week after the episode airs. A notable exception to this would be other "big" series such as Sokyuu no Fafner for some reason and semi-big sensation Aishiteruze Baby. The latter series enjoys a release by Lunar about two to four days after the episode airs, and it's considered speedsubbed by several people.

Really, what is WITH the Naruto community that spawns this attitude? I remember back during the "golden days" when the joint-group and Toriyama's World were doing their race to the finish so to speak. Each of them would sub as fast as they could and they usually released around late friday. That right there was considered speed subbing. I'm sure you can see who won the race. It was the joint-group that somehow always beat out TW, which resulted in TW's releases eventually slowing down to the weekend, then the week after, and then they sort of faded out of the picture. The joint-group, bursting with pride from its victory in the art of speedsubbing, started releasing over the weekend and was STILL considered a speedsubbing group. But no, despite so many other shows being subbed slower than Naruto, three or four days was just too long, and about a zillion groups popped up.

Anyway, I think I've ranted and reminisced long enough. I'm going to start actually talking now.

If you read the rant, you can probably at least make an educated guess that I'm for the speedsub label. "risky" quality is, in my opinion, just dodging the issue at hand. Call them speedsubs because that's exactly what they are. I mean, it's not like it matters to the masses of Naruto kiddies that, like sheep mindlessly being guided by a shepherd, relentlessly download whatever version is released the quickest. If the mere definition of speedsub eludes them and they continue making threads like this, then we can always live with it. If the mods can't live with it, then let's just change the rule a bit. After two weeks that a group has released speedsubs (not necessarily Naruto), stop labeling releases by that group speedsubs. Furthermore, if a v2 of a release that occured while they were considered speedsubs has been released, it will not carry the speedsub tag unless it was released less than one day after the v1.

2004-07-23, 10:14	Link #1
Scy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	Naruto speedsub warnings: are they really necessary? Ok, these Naruto Speed Sub warnings have been going on for days, and I can't help be wonder: it is really necessary to have these warnings? Consider these points: 1) Some of these "speed subs" can't really be called speed subs cause they are either a) Better versions of previous subs or b) Released too late to be called a speed sub. The Koi & AGA version, for example, is released two days after the Naruto eps has been broadcast. Is it really fair to label them speedsubs? 2)"Speedsubbing" has been going on for a long time already. Does a vistor of this site really need all those "speed sub" warnings? They would already know what they are downloading, either a sub by an anonymous group or a sub by an established group. They would already be aware that if they download from these anonymous groups the quality might be bad. Why warn them? 3) What exactly is the definition of a speed sub? A Naruto episode not released by ANBU/AONE? It is very unfair to label these groups as "speedsub" groups because of that. Some of these groups produced works that are of really bad quality, but there are also some that produced works that are of good quality. Animeheaven, for example, produced a very bad quality for their Naruto 91, but their Naruto 92 was very good. And of course, all these warnings so far are only for Naruto eps. Are we going to see similar warnings for other series? If so, how are you going to define the term speedsub? 4) What's the harm of downloading these speedsub eps? They are neither parodies or fakes. I can understand that a lot of people here hate these new groups that suddenly pop up to sub Naruto just because ANBU/AONE has been slow in releasing the eps. However, I can't help but be annoyed by these warnings that are appearing and wonder what's the purpose of them. Much of the fansub community has always looked down on people that suddenly try to "hijack" the work of another group, but I hope you guys can understand that these people are just catering to the group of people that are inpatient and don't mind downloading stuff that are of lower quality. Last edited by Scy; 2004-07-23 at 10:24.

2004-07-23, 10:44	Link #2
JustAnotherFan /(bb\|[^b]{2})/ Join Date: Nov 2003	In case you missed it: only Anime-Heavens 91 has the speedsub warning. The rest only states that the "quality might be risky". 1) to 3) are based on a "speedsub" tag which isn't used (anymore), so I am going to skip answering them. To answer point 4): The harm is that some mistranslations can change the meaning significantly. If you for example mistranslate 3 days as 3 weeks and relate it to one week then it's quite a difference whether the time was cut short by 2/3 or more than doubled. You might not care, others do. I guess you see that people who have metered access aren't too happy about 200MB lost. A few generic comments: At first it was worded differently and there was a pointer to a forums post explaining that note, but it put to much strain on the forum when 20000 people want to read a post within an hour. If we wait until the quality is verified then most people don't care about that release anymore, if we put it up and it's bad then people are unhappy about lost time/transfer/whatever. You often see in the Naruto threads: "it's up on AnimeSuki so it's ok" or "it's not up, so we better not download it". So we thought it would be the best to put it up but with a warning label. As you might have noticed the label only says (in most cases): "Quality might be risky". It's just so you know there MIGHT be a risk involved. Every new group starting with Naruto as their first public project gets that label for their first few releases now. I don't think it's unfair. If you have a better idea (other than hiring a professional translator to check every episode), feel free to share. Last edited by JustAnotherFan; 2004-07-23 at 11:06. Reason: typos and slightly rephrased

2004-07-23, 10:47	Link #4
Thany Unfair Join Date: Nov 2003	Have you ever heard of the FFS fansub of Naruto? It's a good example of the fact that most Naruto fanboys aren't even caring about what they download. At least, if there is this warning, they won't have to whine about the quality or anything else about that fansub. __________________

2004-07-23, 17:37	Link #17
JOJOS'STAR Senior Member Artist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Montreal Age: 43	I agree that those groups starting with Naruto as their first release should have warning but not on the side in the main animesuki.com page, but in the video and made by the groups themselves. I find it a bit odd to download a cheap version(cause this is what it sounds like: Quality might be risky). I'm watching Naruto with less entousiasm then before cause of that. The warning for example, the old Bakasan quick versions that wasnt very far from those new ones, didn't had one for it and was good that way cause people don't mind seing quick release. Everybody know that they are Q.R. once they saw one anyway. It looks like with those ugly warning quick releases are cheaper then before.. Quick releases, quality risky, I ate those termes You know what I prefer those cheap releases to Ambu/Aone. You should rerspect everyone's preference by asking the group starting to do their own warning instead of putting dirt on their name on their first try by making those ugly warning on the main page. This is no respect for subbers and it looks awfull on Animesuki.com. __________________

2004-07-23, 11:55	Link #6
jennwenn Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: good 'ole US of A	I like the idea. If a new group can prove their quality, then maybe they won't need that label warning label anymore. Heck, if Animesuki could do this to other series too it would be helpful, but I don't think there are any other fansubs that are going through the same thing as Naruto. Few other series are even being subbed by more than 2 groups.

2004-07-23, 12:02	Link #7
hunterx ore wa kanpeki da Join Date: Nov 2003	the original poster has a point though. If you're going to do it just don't do it by the anime show. Imho it would be better to do it by the group, so all the group's releases have a warning about quality until it is generally accepted than the quality of their subs are good. The it is now only naruto eps have the warning and every group except anbu has the warning, ie if you're not ANBU you are automatically crap

2004-07-23, 12:26	Link #8
stpehen kisses for all Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ぶちゅー！ Age: 40	What's wrong with a Caveat Emptor policy?

2004-07-23, 13:58	Link #13
Secca nya` Artist Join Date: Feb 2004	I think it's a bit harsh labeling them as "risky". I mean you can just put "speedsub" I'm sure alot of people will understand what it means too. Risky just sounds a bit negative. ^^

2004-07-23, 15:10	Link #15
Yogo_Pogo A laughing demonic Skull Join Date: Apr 2004	if they want quality they just have to wait for the fansubs group to correctly finish it. What's the hurry? Does Naruto have subliminal addictive message in it?