2010-12-15, 16:36 | Link #19781 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Imo - Lion is the ultimate reference to the real shkanon proportions. She/he never had to hide anything so we can safely bet that it is what the creature looks like. |
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2010-12-15, 16:37 | Link #19782 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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@Cao Ni Ma:
Well, this is neither a double nor twins. It's one person playing two separate parts. Yeah, it's improbable that two completely different people would look alike, but this is one person dressing up as two parts. Anyone in the world can do that, though not everyone could pull it off as a member of the opposite sex. The point here is that incredible powers of disguise are not needed. Why does everyone on the island seem to believe that Kanon and Shannon are different people? It's not because they look different. On the contrary, people call them siblings several times even though they claim not to be. And Kanon is often described as a slender boy, who, incidentally, rarely ever talks to anyone or interacts with anyone. Of course, I'm not saying "therefore they must be the same person". That would be insane. I'm just saying that, given this information, and the fact that Battler never sees them together in any question arc, this possibility is fair game. If evidence elsewhere supports this conclusion, then we should be able to accept it.
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2010-12-15, 16:57 | Link #19783 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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We have also learned things about her family, both in the question arcs and chiru that could easily be spun into a motive that makes perfect sense.
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2010-12-15, 17:17 | Link #19784 |
The True Culprit
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Well, THAT, and also because it's completely stupidly outrageously over the top, doesn't fit any of the rules we seem to have been supposed to be forming (lol first twilight is fake, beato's heart, yadda yadda), and...well...it lines up WAY too much with Bernkastel's interests and Ange's worst nightmares. It's very clearly designed to tear up Ange as much as humanly possible.
And since we were ALREADY SHOWN that the Witch characters can present fictional realities and make Red statements about those Kakera, well....Bern's interrupted red becomes even less credible. I'd really like to see how someone can make a motive for Kyrie and Rudolf that involves the two of them deciding they need to kill absolutely everyone in the family in unnecessarily brutal ways despite being consistently characterized as willing to split the gold so long as they get their share. We also have the problem of Rudolf and Kyrie SUDDENLY HATING BATTLER AND ANGE FOR NO REASON LOL FUCK THOSE REDHEADED GINGERS MIRITE? Oh, and Rudolf and Kyrie almost always die in the very beginning, complete with Red confirmation. So basically it's "Everything you've read is a lie, here's the answer that wasn't foreshadowed whatsoever and contradicts everything you were taught to build off of." Anyone who finds that a satisfying answer isn't a true Mystery fan. It is by no means Fair Play.
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2010-12-15, 17:31 | Link #19785 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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No one was ever supposed to see the actual truth. Everything that Beatrice wrote pointed to her as the culprit, so what happened in "reality" doesn't matter when it comes to solving Beatrice's heart.
The Tea Party didn't exist for Ange's sake. She was a side note at best. If it was just about hurting her there was no need for Lion to be there either, or for the Tea Party to continue after she reburgered herself.
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2010-12-15, 18:15 | Link #19786 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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In Higurashi there wasn't anyone who questioned what was presented. In Umineko you have not one but two characters, two MAIN characters no less that claim that Bern's story was just a huge lie. That's the big problem here. If I hadn't see a main character like Will or Battler saying the complete opposite of what Bern has shown I would have to admit the same things that you are giving for granted. But that fact that you keep considering irrelevant actually changes everything in my opinion. At any rate you can't really compare Higurashi and Umineko because of this fact. And this is something you can't argue against, you can say that in your opinion what Will and Battler say in the end is irrelevant, but you can't prove it in any way. I'm using the same logic that I used at the end of EP1. I knew that "magic" was a lie simply because the good guy said it was a lie and the bad guy said it was the truth. it's really that simple. There was really no other real logic that you could use there. Every argument that Battler used was something that work in the real world, but definitely not inside a novel. And after Higurashi how could someone say that "magic definitely can't exist in this story"? I think that the real reason you are the only one that I know of that believe the tea party is the truth, is because no one wants to believe that Bern is right.
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2010-12-15, 18:28 | Link #19787 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Except both of those characters have emotional reasons for doing so. One is trying to save the life of his friend and partner by insisting the situation is "unfair" (he loses). The other is saying that because she doesn't want to believe it or, alternately, to comfort a crying child (and he also doesn't deny it, just says it isn't the whole story).
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2010-12-15, 18:34 | Link #19788 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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And Bern has also strong reasons to lie and she tried to frame the wrong person already. So your point is moot.
Conversely there are no proofs that Will would try to deny a truth. The evidence in our possession show that Will didn't prevent Lion from learning a truth that was absolutely painful for him/her. So the idea that he would do that is merely and completely speculative.
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2010-12-15, 18:57 | Link #19789 | ||
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2010-12-15, 19:06 | Link #19790 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Featherinne's concept of "truth" is a little far off, if you ask me. The way I see it Featherinne already decided which was the "truth" and Bern's purpose was only to write a story that would paint the "truth" that Featherinne wanted to see.
That's Bern's reason. She isn't someone who actually cares about the real truth and she wasn't working for someone who actually cared about the real truth. As for the "deadly" truth, oh that's ridiculous, considering that Will is the one who killed Clair.
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2010-12-15, 19:16 | Link #19791 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Ange independently confirmed that Featherinne was on the right track as far as her truth goes. Featherinne is a bitch, but there's no reason to think she was wrong or that she didn't want the real truth. Especially since she made it clear the real truth is what she wanted from Bern, no monkey business.
Will didn't kill Clair. She was already dead.
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2010-12-15, 19:36 | Link #19792 | ||||||
The True Culprit
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Bern doesn't give a shit about the actual truth. She just wants to destroy Beatrice's fantasy world and reveal as disgusting and painful a "truth" as possible. It's right there in the TIPS and her own dialog. Quote:
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2010-12-15, 19:41 | Link #19793 |
Thought Being
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
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I still think that the truth behind Kyrie as a culprit is that she was just as likely to kill everyone as the other adults. The acceptance Battler has for it is that his parents could have done this, but so could all the other adults on the island.
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2010-12-15, 19:48 | Link #19794 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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As for Ange, there's a very good chance Kyrie was just lying about it. She knew that Eva was going to kill her and she likely didn't want to try and live because Rudolf was dead now. That's why she badmouthed Ange - that way Eva would take sympathy on her and spare Ange of abuse and the truth. Kyrie dies with a smile because of this fact. You're taking it as it can be the only conclusion. As I noted in the EP 7 thread it could be one of the possible solutions. And as a side note for the last one, Umineko is not a traditional mystery. Especially with how we find out the secret to all the closed rooms near the ending of EP 7's main story before the tea parties. |
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2010-12-15, 20:11 | Link #19795 | ||||
The True Culprit
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2010-12-15, 20:16 | Link #19796 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Starve demanding the fair
As I've said before, if EP7 is the absolute truth in terms of the game as a mystery then there is no point in reading EP8. EP7 is the ending Bern and AuAu wanted, EP6 is the ending Battler and Beatrice wanted. EP8 will probably be the ending we as individuals would want (probably) |
2010-12-15, 21:18 | Link #19797 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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2010-12-15, 21:21 | Link #19798 |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but lately I'm wondering about Jessica in relation to Yasu, though I admit my ideas are pretty hazy.
Given that Yasu was her classmate and (more or less) her confident/playmate, is it possible that Gaap-Beatrice was Jessica (or somehow connected to her)? Is there any evidence for Jessica being a direct or indirect accomplice to Yasu-Beatrice? Perhaps Kanon could be more a collaborative fiction of sorts created between Yasu and Jessica? I haven't quite made this notion fit in with my other thoughts and theories on Umineko, but I'm finding it hard to escape the thought right now that given the amount of time Yasu/Shkannon would have spent with Jessica that she's more involved in this affair than is being said. Perhaps even her "2 AM" story isn't telling all there is? And this does add another confidant for Yasu to pull things off with outside the non-Yasu servants.
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2010-12-15, 22:21 | Link #19799 | ||
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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2010-12-15, 22:43 | Link #19800 | ||
The True Culprit
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