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Ithekro · 2011-10-21, 16:08

Going to need more detection against Zerg now.

Who · 2011-10-21, 16:14

Okay, so here's other unit changes:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co..._korean_press/

Xacual · 2011-10-21, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Who

Okay, so here's other unit changes:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co..._korean_press/

I like the change with the thor, having an "odin" will be interesting.

Kyuu · 2011-10-21, 16:45

Well... Korean SC tournaments will be more interesting to see in the upcoming near months.

kramerica · 2011-10-21, 21:17

The viper also has a disruption web like ability which is neat.

But burrow charge ultras will make them total bosses.

Who · 2011-10-21, 21:31

I like how the new units are focusing heavily upon micro; something which SC2 needed more of, aside from the usual marine splitting and whatnot.

And there's so much synergy for abuse-able combos, such as replicating infestors and then fungal + storm; siege pushing with tanks and shredders, abducting colossi into fields of banelings. Makes me giddy like a schoolgirl.

LoweGear · 2011-10-21, 22:19

Well, for those who were complaining that SC2's units were nothing more than reshuffles of SC1's (not that it was imho), the new unit and ability lists are sure to completely mix up gameplay in ways I can't even dare imagine.

Also, DEM EPIC CINEMATICS

***

Interesting tidbit, supposedly from the dev panel at Blizzcon:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Developer Panel info

Apparently, we have already met Duran again as of Wings of Liberty.

... wait, when?!?! WHO IS IT SO I CAN PURGE HIM- *ehem*

Looks like that "Dr. Narud" speculation is beginning to gain traction...

yezhanquan · 2011-10-21, 22:57

Waiting for story. Balance issues will be touched on even 10 years from now.

Who · 2011-10-21, 23:49

Trailer video makes me imagine that Kerrigan wants to reclaim her title as Queen Bitch of the Universe (which I approve of; compared to Jim Raynor being a wuss and backing out on his promise to kill Kerrigan from BW even if it was story related). With a soft side for Jim. And newborn zerglings.

Oh, and GSL finals. Holy shit, MMA. Game 1 strat made of balls. Genius balls.

paladinenvec · 2011-10-22, 00:46

I never have seen such a large crowd for a GSL final.... it's electrifying...

Flying Dagger · 2011-10-22, 00:54

M m a!
M m a!
M m a!
M m a!
M m a!
M m a!
M m a!
M m a!

Ithekro · 2011-10-22, 00:56

The swarm is coming, and all their tactics will need to be reevaluated.
But I expect more "special tactics" from White-Ra after all this comes out.

Hooves · 2011-10-22, 01:25

I'm very curious what White-Ra is going to come up with when the new units come out. Seems the Zerg just got a massive upgrade apparently, pulling a Colossi from a cliff? Ultralisks charging while burrowed? I'm getting that "hit & run" vibe from the pulling, and the "blitz of success" vibe from the charging.

Also them Cinematics... I got chills from them..

paladinenvec · 2011-10-22, 02:14

I'm Sad that MVP my favorite player got defeated but i think that the finals were exciting with so many base trade scenarios and heart pounding moments. It was a good GSL final and i hope next tournaments get better with less TvT finals (won't happen in a while i think lol)...

-Sho- · 2011-10-22, 02:55

Vipers are sweet <3
Anyway , some news -

Spoiler for News:

Quote:

SC2 Multiplayer Panel LR - Complete and Cleaned up

Dustin Browder, David Kim and Josh Manky on the panel

Balance Stats (WoL) in all leagues
TvZ : Even
PvZ : Even
TvP : Even

Master + GM balance
TvZ - Even
PvZ - Zerg dominant (Europe)
TvP - Terran dominant (Korea)

All major tournament data considered
GSL - Code S (Terran dominance)
GSL - Code A (Even)
IEM Guan ( Even) - major tourney but scale is not big
IEM NY - Zerg dominate
IPL - Protoss weak
MLG Orlando - Even

PvT
Pre - 1.4
Adjusted rating - evenish
Community feedback - protoss weaker
Pro feedback - protoss is too weak and has no chance

Implications
1/1/1 too strong and should be dealt with
EMP may be strong but hard to gauge since late game P was disadvantge from early game
Thus, range buff for Immortal

Post 1.4
Improved feedback from community and pros
Pros - 1/1/1 not a problem anymore

Implications
MLG Tournaments better results for P but 1 tourney not enough
Rating side - still unsure abt balance as it take times to settle down

PvT - EMP radius might be reduced as too much raw dmg from EMP
1 EMP with 10 protoss ball ~1000 dmg

P - possible forge upgrade cost reduction for shield upgrades

WoL design in general and what they learned for HoTS

1. Weaknesses for Zerg in early tiers
2. Stale matchups ZvZ and PvP
3. Missed opportunities - units not doing enough

Fix units, matchups and weakness
However, nothing shown today is final

Examples of pre-WoL units that were cut to demonstrate nothing is finals

TERRAN
Weakness and Issues faced
1. Thor
Too big and can get stuck
High cost and cant bring enough of them and can die from mutas if caught out of position

2. Mass Zealots late game
MM micro can alleviate it a bit but they might need more options

3. Lot of options - harassing/defending/200 pop army
new units should not add to strength beyond current

Battle Hellion
1. Anti late game zealot
2. End game fighter
currently early to mid game utility only

Warhound
new factory unit - mechanical
Anti-air mass muta role
medium cost and fast moving -smaller faster version of thor
It is anti-mech ground attack and good againt mech TvT
Protoss ground units are also mech so good against them always

Thors moved to different role - high burst attack unit what is similar to possibly Mothership in its role - unit is still under construction
Example video of battle hellion + warhound vs traditional marine tank

SHREDDER

1. Radiation robot
2. Cheap board control
3. Does not add to ball of death

Not allowed to ball of death -
no attack on move
when rooted as spine crawler can do large aoe dmg
cant keep aoe on near other non-shredder friendlies

Terran Summary
1. Hellion
2. Warhound
3. Shredder
Gives Terran little something w/o destabilizing the game

Zerg Challenges
1. Siege challenge - hard to go against turtling terran
2. Missed opportunities -
over seer : abilities not utilized too often.. Abilities not too powerful since it has 0 pop
Corruptor: effective against what it should counter (Colossus) - useless if protoss switches tech

Ultralisk
- Size issues
- End of game splash unit - buff in HoTS on this
- Burrow charge added to bring ultras into mid-battle

Example video of same

VIPER
- full spell cater
- over seer is cut
- Choke breaker

spell which reduced attack range to 1 under targeted area
e.g. used on marines and banelings super effective

spell which pulls a unit
e.g. colossus pulled down ramp

Swarm Host
- Zerg artillery
- Map control unit
- Burrows and spews broodling type units
Example video of swarm host - sets rally point - and locusts goto to pally point (90 hp locusts)
no cost on locusts

Zerg Summary
1. Ultralisk
2. Viper
3. Swarm Host

PROTOSS
ball of death too swarm acc to community
changes to deal with some protoss issues currently beyond that

Weakness
- No raiding units
different kind of raiding unit for P which does not kill SCV
- AOE Anti/air is lacking (mass muta strat)
Phoenix good against small grps but not against too many mutas
- Lots of options
Replace some units in ball of death but not improve efficiency of the ball

TEMPEST
- New capital ship
- Carrier is cut
- AOE AA
- Air assault
- Ground dmg as well
Video shown as example

REPLICANT
- Comes of robotics facility
- Only 1 ability to copy units
- Can copy units but have high cost 200 min/200g but get all upgrades available
e.g. copy banshee without cloak - the copied banshee will have cloak

Copying doesn't remove the original units so multi replicants can copy off single unit

ORACLE
- Raiding caster
- Doesn't kill workers
- Doesn't fit into ball of death
- Mothership cut to make room for Oracle

Abilities
- Temp stun buildings
- FFs to block minerals which can be easily destroyed but w/o units to kill the FF can destroy economy temporarily

SMALLER MISC CHANGES
- can be extremely signficant

Ghost cloak cost - fixed cost fixed duration
Reaper - regen out of combat
BC - speed boost on CD
Baneling - hive upgrade - burrow move
Hydra - speed upgrade in Hive
Corruptor - Siphon - attach to enemy building and harvest for resouces
Nexus - turns building into photon cannon for short time
Nexus - Recall ability

6 new units
7+ new evolutions
And new strats

========================== Q & A ====================================

Q & A LR

1. How do you think HoTS affect to influence the tourney scene?

- WoL ain't going anywhere
- Tournaments can decide what they want and they will support
- But they want people to switch over by making a good product

2. Question about Replicant - enemy race worker copied to build their units?

- Right now they can copy and should not be able to make a huge difference
- Copying and making OC might be too powerful
- They might make it not to copy workers

3. Question- Can OC be duplicated?
- Workers can be not OC

4. Replicant is a huge change and can open a can of worms?
- samll changes only for WoL
- In new expac, big changes are possible and feasible

5. How has Warp prism buff affected the pro-circuit?
- WP never saw play pre-1.4. Post-1.4 change has made it much more viable and people are using it a lot more now

6. Where they concerned about having too many options for the players esp for players in lower leagues who might get overwhelmed?
- Yes, they keep that in mind. But they want to add more strats also. So they will keep a balance

7. Mules imbad compared to chrono boost / spawn larva?
- Using at gold might be too powerful but it comes in mid-late game.
however, not too big an issue
- Saving up mana might be an issue. But then again different races are different where can pool up larva
- Assymetric options but they will watch going forward.

8. MLG guy - Q about HOTS released mid-season?
- It is upto MLG on when they want to switch over. Dustin Browder leavng it upto community as community has built e-sports not Blizz

9. Shredder attack nullified near (a) workers (b)allies units (c) can be repaired?
- Yes. Shredder dmg does not stack though

10. Shredder as harassment unity. Drop Shredder on worker line and kill everything?
- Concerned but they have tools to adjust
- deploy time / sound added
- May be a deal killer as well where it might be cut

11. Nexus energy question - CB loses utility later on - pis-cannon prevent cheese - what about using it as cheese?
- E.g. Day9 did it to JP last night - tried at different tech levels - concern abt range and other such factors - not sure abt right answer atm

12. Thor weakness muta magic box? Why is it different for tempest?
- Big AOE splash for tempest - larger number of tempest likely later on
- Tempest counters every air unit in game when clumped - so they will be built in mass.

13. Total damage cap added in SC2?
- Not a big fan of that solution for SC2. Random outcome - as to what units it hit and how much it removes - not too effective - so they will use range, radius, cooldown, etc

14. HT/DT wasted to get Twilight archon? not coherent question for me to put it in words
- They will take feedback on different archons

15. Units gets clumped up a lot in SC2 so AoE too important in late game?
- Big challenge in BW vs SC2 comparison e.g. nerfing storm damage.
- Feedback a lot in early SC2
- Possibly not too big and issue atm acc to David Kim as games are of decent length and units are not dying too quickly to splash.
- At pro-level splitting is helping it.

blitz1/2 · 2011-10-22, 12:08

Maybe they should increase the psi-limit to 300 soon. xD

Flying Dagger · 2011-10-22, 20:02

Amazing concluding match for blizzcon!

MVP:
"Damn I could have walked away with 95k in my pockets"

Who · 2011-10-22, 20:33

Day9 and JP: "best Terran in the world... MVP!"
MMA: "hey John, translate what they said?"
*John translates*
MMA: "oh. That's cute lol."

Grats to MVP but I think Nestea and MVP are gonna split their winnings since they're bros. Well, bros despite what this image says:
http://i.imgur.com/NPNZe.png

HurricaneHige · 2011-10-23, 02:07

Epic last game...how in the world can someone come back when his opponent holds that much resources, I do not know.

~~Pocari_Sweat~~ · 2011-10-23, 21:40

I watched GSL finals, was okay, but was one person outplaying another instead of an epic series. But w/e GSL finals have always been terrible bar Open Season 2 Nestea vs MKP.

Anyways, having a bit of a rage here because I didn't get a chance to watch Blizzcon so I was thinking about buying a virtual ticket so I can watch all the VODs. Turns out it's $39.95 USD... WHAT THE FUCK. Who in the world will pay that much for a virtual ticket. Don't believe me:
http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/virtual-ticket/

If this isn't money grabbing...

2011-10-21, 16:08	Link #7321
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Going to need more detection against Zerg now. __________________

2011-10-21, 16:45	Link #7324
Kyuu =^^= Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude) Age: 45	Well... Korean SC tournaments will be more interesting to see in the upcoming near months. __________________ Japanese Mahjong Group \| Currently Watching List \| Click on this - I dare you.

2011-10-21, 21:17	Link #7325
kramerica Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	The viper also has a disruption web like ability which is neat. But burrow charge ultras will make them total bosses. __________________ Nanael is not amused.

2011-10-21, 22:57	Link #7328
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	Waiting for story. Balance issues will be touched on even 10 years from now. __________________

2011-10-21, 23:49	Link #7329
Who Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY, USA Age: 33	Trailer video makes me imagine that Kerrigan wants to reclaim her title as Queen Bitch of the Universe (which I approve of; compared to Jim Raynor being a wuss and backing out on his promise to kill Kerrigan from BW even if it was story related). With a soft side for Jim. And newborn zerglings. Oh, and GSL finals. Holy shit, MMA. Game 1 strat made of balls. Genius balls. Last edited by Who; 2011-10-22 at 00:10.

2011-10-21, 16:14	Link #7322
Who Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY, USA Age: 33	Okay, so here's other unit changes: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co..._korean_press/

2011-10-21, 21:31	Link #7326
Who Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY, USA Age: 33	I like how the new units are focusing heavily upon micro; something which SC2 needed more of, aside from the usual marine splitting and whatnot. And there's so much synergy for abuse-able combos, such as replicating infestors and then fungal + storm; siege pushing with tanks and shredders, abducting colossi into fields of banelings. Makes me giddy like a schoolgirl.

2011-10-22, 00:46	Link #7330
paladinenvec Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Monterrey, Mexico	I never have seen such a large crowd for a GSL final.... it's electrifying...

2011-10-22, 00:54	Link #7331
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	M m a! M m a! M m a! M m a! M m a! M m a! M m a! M m a!

2011-10-22, 00:56	Link #7332
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The swarm is coming, and all their tactics will need to be reevaluated. But I expect more "special tactics" from White-Ra after all this comes out. __________________

2011-10-22, 02:14	Link #7334
paladinenvec Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Monterrey, Mexico	I'm Sad that MVP my favorite player got defeated but i think that the finals were exciting with so many base trade scenarios and heart pounding moments. It was a good GSL final and i hope next tournaments get better with less TvT finals (won't happen in a while i think lol)...

2011-10-22, 12:08	Link #7336
blitz1/2 Tenshi's Defense Squadron Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system	Maybe they should increase the psi-limit to 300 soon. xD __________________ hai, hai. Onii-chan has his work cut out for him.

2011-10-22, 20:02	Link #7337
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	Amazing concluding match for blizzcon! MVP: "Damn I could have walked away with 95k in my pockets"

2011-10-22, 20:33	Link #7338
Who Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NY, USA Age: 33	Day9 and JP: "best Terran in the world... MVP!" MMA: "hey John, translate what they said?" John translates MMA: "oh. That's cute lol." Grats to MVP but I think Nestea and MVP are gonna split their winnings since they're bros. Well, bros despite what this image says: http://i.imgur.com/NPNZe.png

2011-10-23, 02:07	Link #7339
HurricaneHige Uguu~ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada	Epic last game...how in the world can someone come back when his opponent holds that much resources, I do not know. __________________ Sig's coming soon ~_~ (since 07....) My rant blog (omg i'm blogging now, and not just anime)

2011-10-23, 21:40	Link #7340
~~Pocari_Sweat~~ <em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em> Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Australia	I watched GSL finals, was okay, but was one person outplaying another instead of an epic series. But w/e GSL finals have always been terrible bar Open Season 2 Nestea vs MKP. Anyways, having a bit of a rage here because I didn't get a chance to watch Blizzcon so I was thinking about buying a virtual ticket so I can watch all the VODs. Turns out it's $39.95 USD... WHAT THE FUCK. Who in the world will pay that much for a virtual ticket. Don't believe me: http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/virtual-ticket/ If this isn't money grabbing...