Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rah-Rah

Even after Kira takes the spotlight in Destiny, he has no struggle, so while I can understand it's cool to see a character you like doing stuff agian, when he takes the spotlight away from someone who was intially inteded to be the focal point of the show, that just rubs people the wrong way, espically since a lot of things in both the orignal SEED and in Destiny made it feel like it was a work in progress without too much planning (Kind of like Nanoha Strikers).

To me, if there's anybody that stole the spotlight from Shinn, it was Athrun with his loyalty/identity issues and wannabe harem, not Kira. Kira was just there for the ride, a fan service, really (one I appreciated for what it was). And I'm probably one of the few people who can still see Shinn as the leading character of GSD to the end, even with all that distractions from Athrun and Kira.

[SonicX_Zero]

Originally Posted by FruitsPunchSamurai

Don't worry little one I'll help your foolish ignorance. By your "logic" why don't we have why Zeta Gundam failed thread? Or why G Gundam failed thread? Or better yet why isn't there a why Gundam Wing failed thread? Certaintly there were aspects of all those series that we didn't like so we can bitch and complain about, so I wonder why Destiny gets the bad rep when it's panned by the majority of the fanbase.

But then there are no currently existing topics that discusses the failure of any of those series, which led me to conclude that those shows are a success and that GSD is the ultimate failure because people on animesuki discuss how much of a failure it is.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by monstert

To me, if there's anybody that stole the spotlight from Shinn, it was Athrun with his loyalty/identity issues and wannabe harem, not Kira. Kira was just there for the ride, a fan service, really (one I appreciated for what it was). And I'm probably one of the few people who can still see Shinn as the leading character of GSD to the end, even with all that distractions from Athrun and Kira.

To me, both boys/men stole the spotlight. But personally, what most people cannot forgive was how Destiny fell to IJ in the final battle. I mean: WTH?

[Natsuke]

What made GSD fail.

Everything.

To have a decent beginning with promising new characters get their well-deserved spotlight taken away by an annoying, preaching "I know everything about war" love and peace crapola type crew of old was terrible enough. They shoved it further down our throats by having them be the main spotlight throughout the ending, leaving the backstory of Shinn Asuka's tragic past thrown into the furnace; a past that definitely could have been a driving force of the entire series and made Shinn a character worth remembering. However, we are left with a broken promise of new characters who just become pawns and get their asses kicked by people who think they know how to end wars.

Shinn Asuka's driving force suddenly became just a simple quest for praise and ranking status, ultimately losing all sense of luster his character potentially had. And he was replaced by Kira Yamato, who suddenly knows everything as if being the Ultimate Coordinator gave him the purpose of life or something.

And that's only ONE problem with GSD.

It's a freakin fanfiction developed by someone who broke under the pressure and gave what the fans wanted; even when the fans knew what they wanted was absolute BS on a stick. Gundam isn't about these ending at all. Even 00 had tragedy ten to twenty times the amount of the entire SEED series. Mwu La Flaga survived a blast from a huge spaceship and survived. At least for Patrick Colasour, it was a running gag.

No matter what, and I've watched pretty much 90% of the Gundam franchise, I will never, ever like GSD for what it did. It over-glorified itself and made things so cheesy that I feel it was an insult to Gundam. Gundam was never about the great j-pop music, at least to that extent.

I don't care what other ppl think; Gundam SEED Destiny, hell, SEED itself, ranks the lowest on my list.

[yezhanquan]

I object to that last part. Taking the anime alone, yes, maybe I'll agree. But, at least in Seed's case, the information in the manual is really important to getting involved with the storyline. I don't think it's fantastic, but it's at least above average.

Destiny: Yeah, it had plenty of problems. When the distilled versions end up BETTER than the anime, we have issues.

[SonicX_Zero]

Originally Posted by Natsuke

What made GSD fail.

Everything.

To have a decent beginning with promising new characters get their well-deserved spotlight taken away by an annoying, preaching "I know everything about war" love and peace crapola type crew of old was terrible enough. They shoved it further down our throats by having them be the main spotlight throughout the ending, leaving the backstory of Shinn Asuka's tragic past thrown into the furnace; a past that definitely could have been a driving force of the entire series and made Shinn a character worth remembering. However, we are left with a broken promise of new characters who just become pawns and get their asses kicked by people who think they know how to end wars.

Shinn Asuka's driving force suddenly became just a simple quest for praise and ranking status, ultimately losing all sense of luster his character potentially had. And he was replaced by Kira Yamato, who suddenly knows everything as if being the Ultimate Coordinator gave him the purpose of life or something.

And that's only ONE problem with GSD.

It's a freakin fanfiction developed by someone who broke under the pressure and gave what the fans wanted; even when the fans knew what they wanted was absolute BS on a stick. Gundam isn't about these ending at all. Even 00 had tragedy ten to twenty times the amount of the entire SEED series. Mwu La Flaga survived a blast from a huge spaceship and survived. At least for Patrick Colasour, it was a running gag.

No matter what, and I've watched pretty much 90% of the Gundam franchise, I will never, ever like GSD for what it did. It over-glorified itself and made things so cheesy that I feel it was an insult to Gundam. Gundam was never about the great j-pop music, at least to that extent.

I don't care what other ppl think; Gundam SEED Destiny, hell, SEED itself, ranks the lowest on my list.

It is like going back in time to the year 2005.

[yezhanquan]

Speaking of which, the CE movie is not out yet. Perhaps, it's better that the thing DOESN'T come out.

But, on Destiny, I did buy some merchandise. The yonkoma is funny, and the Edge manga series did its best to salvage the story.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Natsuke

Spoiler for walls of opinion:

What made GSD fail.

Everything.

To have a decent beginning with promising new characters get their well-deserved spotlight taken away by an annoying, preaching "I know everything about war" love and peace crapola type crew of old was terrible enough. They shoved it further down our throats by having them be the main spotlight throughout the ending, leaving the backstory of Shinn Asuka's tragic past thrown into the furnace; a past that definitely could have been a driving force of the entire series and made Shinn a character worth remembering. However, we are left with a broken promise of new characters who just become pawns and get their asses kicked by people who think they know how to end wars.

Shinn Asuka's driving force suddenly became just a simple quest for praise and ranking status, ultimately losing all sense of luster his character potentially had. And he was replaced by Kira Yamato, who suddenly knows everything as if being the Ultimate Coordinator gave him the purpose of life or something.

And that's only ONE problem with GSD.

It's a freakin fanfiction developed by someone who broke under the pressure and gave what the fans wanted; even when the fans knew what they wanted was absolute BS on a stick. Gundam isn't about these ending at all. Even 00 had tragedy ten to twenty times the amount of the entire SEED series. Mwu La Flaga survived a blast from a huge spaceship and survived. At least for Patrick Colasour, it was a running gag.

No matter what, and I've watched pretty much 90% of the Gundam franchise, I will never, ever like GSD for what it did. It over-glorified itself and made things so cheesy that I feel it was an insult to Gundam. Gundam was never about the great j-pop music, at least to that extent.

I don't care what other ppl think; Gundam SEED Destiny, hell, SEED itself, ranks the lowest on my list.

What is your favorite Gundam series, then, again?

To me Destiny failed as a continuation of a great series. Though it did not fail as miserably as Char's counterattack or ZZ, IMO. After watching the compilation movies, I can even say GSD even does its work decently now.

[yezhanquan]

Because it cut out all those recaps. Lord, those recaps...

[Crimrui]

Destiny wasn't a fail to me and for quite a few others around the net as well. Yeah, it had some problems with story, non-developed characters and the same fighting animations all over again.

The main problem people had is a pilot named Shinn. Sure he is a retard in someone's eyes but also he was portrayed in a realistic way that I came to respect the character no matter how annoying he can be. He lost his family in a war, sure big deal, many characters always loose something but maintain the common sense, but you forget one thing, not everyone is the same. Shinn firmly believed that Orb was at fault and would do anything to avenge his family even though he took his anger beyond the normal revenge as the series progress. He is a cocky brat, naive, easily fooled and misguided by the convincing Chairman's words. Shinn wasn't bad, he wanted to help people, but was on the wrong team. I like how the show gives the image of a ''failed hero'' kinda feel as Shinn wasn't gonna make it as a hero the main role switched back at Kira and his friends again. Plus, Destiny had the best intros and music out of all Gundam shows that I watched.

It clearly could have been much better, but I loved it and would like to see that long-time promised and announced Seed movie.

[Lelite]

Kira's inability to do simple maths was what did it for me. You'd think if he was an ultimate coordinator, he'd... know Grade 7(6?) math?

And I'll explain this statement so that it doesn't sound completely out of the blue. My recollection of Destiny was kind of fuzzy because I tuned out after episode 10 (seriously, if you want to force me to sleep show me Kira. It's like insta-reaction), but I think this was after Earth/Naturals seized Requiem and downed another PLANT, Kira was like "Lulz, 'dey obviously wanted revenge for 'dose soldiers who got caught in Genesis blast years ago" or something like that.

.... *clapclapclap* Yes, Kira. 2,500,000 civillians = ~5,000 soldiers. Good job, you fail. Now take your "F" for "Fabulous" and GTFO.

And Shinn had so much more potential and realism than Kira, which made him a much more interesting character; but because the directors would tie themselves in a knot lest the fans go angry, they brought the useless, 2-dimensional "perfect" Gary Stu and his cronies back to destroy all the potential the series ever had.

Rey, Shinn and Gilbert were good characters. It's kind of bad when the series fails on the sole premise of bad characters. That's ultimate failure, if you get my drift.

ETA: And the reasons for proclaiming Durandal was "OMG EBIL" was also retarded.
Lacus: "Gasp! He is evil!"
Kira: "Yes, if you say so!"
...
Made a helluva lot more sense than the crap you guys were spewing.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Lelite

Kira's inability to do simple maths was what did it for me. You'd think if he was an ultimate coordinator, he'd... know Grade 7(6?) math?

And I'll explain this statement so that it doesn't sound completely out of the blue. My recollection of Destiny was kind of fuzzy because I tuned out after episode 10 (seriously, if you want to force me to sleep show me Kira. It's like insta-reaction), but I think this was after Earth/Naturals seized Requiem and downed another PLANT, Kira was like "Lulz, 'dey obviously wanted revenge for 'dose soldiers who got caught in Genesis blast years ago" or something like that.

.... *clapclapclap* Yes, Kira. 2,500,000 civillians = ~5,000 soldiers. Good job, you fail. Now take your "F" for "Fabulous" and GTFO.

Not sure what the heck you're referring to here since you seem to be confused by something, but the basic idea regarding Kira and Lacus after the Requiem shot PLANT was that they already anticipated that ZAFT would defeat Logos and use the incident to further the Destiny Plan, which they disagreed with. That is why they thought Dullindal was the bigger threat.

[Lelite]

Originally Posted by brightman

Not sure what the heck you're referring to here since you seem to be confused by something, but the basic idea regarding Kira and Lacus after the Requiem shot PLANT was that they already anticipated that ZAFT would defeat Logos and use the incident to further the Destiny Plan, which they disagreed with. That is why they thought Dullindal was the bigger threat.

No. Right after the PLANT is destroyed and everyone has a "O=" face, Kira goes on to calmly compare the two incidents, pretty much in the way I named sans "lulz". It was a minor thing, and I don't expect many to remember it, but that was the last straw for me and Kira's character; which is why I remember it quite clearly.

And I never questioned why they thought Durandal/Dullindal/Gilbert was the bigger threat. It just... irked me. "Bloody Valentine" was such a big deal for everyone, especially Athrun; and then we get this other PLANT is blown up and everyone INCLUDING Athrun listen to Kira's "wisdom" and go "O, no biggie. After ZAFT we go! "

And by the way, I think Destiny Plan was brilliant. If we can assume that they really CAN arrange someone's most compatible career based on their genes, damn straight sign me up. I'd love it if someone told me what career path suited my being better and got me interested in it early on. Otherwise the plan is a ruse, but we weren't given any information to assume so. But that's just my opinion and not a reason for why I think GSD failed, so I won't go on about it longer. Had they given real reasons as to why they thought it was bad, like, I dunno, some insider knowledge about whether it really was possible, I would've had no issues with them taking Gilbert down. As it stood the viewer basically had to take their word for it, and happily go along with Kira-Kami.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Don't care for much of the story or characters from SEED Destiny.

But, I will give it credit for diversity among the grunt Mobile Suits.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Lelite

No. Right after the PLANT is destroyed and everyone has a "O=" face, Kira goes on to calmly compare the two incidents, pretty much in the way I named sans "lulz". It was a minor thing, and I don't expect many to remember it, but that was the last straw for me and Kira's character; which is why I remember it quite clearly.

Umm... No. Considering I just rewatched Destiny recently (and now understand a lot more about Kira's motivations, thankfully) they really didn't compare this to something that happened 10 years ago.

Kira and Lacus basically talked about the fact that there is an endless chain of retaliation that has been happening (which is true), and that Dullindal would certainly retaliate (which is true) , and that the Destiny Plan would solve this endless cycle (which is true). However, they felt that this was just a power grab and they disagreed with taking away people's freedom to choose, so they decided to stand against Dullindal.

The whole time they already came to the conclusion that Dullindal indoubtedly would take care of Requiem, which is why they didn't do anything to "help" him.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

I object to that last part. Taking the anime alone, yes, maybe I'll agree. But, at least in Seed's case, the information in the manual is really important to getting involved with the storyline. I don't think it's fantastic, but it's at least above average.

Seed was good, but it's McCarthyism at it's best...Guilt by association...

As for the rest, I'll say it until they dig me up and salt-rock my ghost....THE DESTINY PLAN posed no imminent threat...You can't get 10 billion people to sign up for what was essentially a job-fair without letting them decide (That $hit can't even be implemented in any timeframe that doesn't start with DECADES)...Now we all know the script demanded that Dullindal go ape-$hit evil since the spec of dust called ORB had that total sooopaunstoppableness that drove him off the cliff...But Lacus looking in a notebook seeing the word "DESTINY PLAN" and getting full 00 nekkid-world perspective on this will always be one of the lamest moments in G-history...

[Lelite]

Originally Posted by brightman

Umm... No. Considering I just rewatched Destiny recently (and now understand a lot more about Kira's motivations, thankfully) they really didn't compare this to something that happened 10 years ago.

Kira and Lacus basically talked about the fact that there is an endless chain of retaliation that has been happening (which is true), and that Dullindal would certainly retaliate (which is true) , and that the Destiny Plan would solve this endless cycle (which is true). However, they felt that this was just a power grab and they disagreed with taking away people's freedom to choose, so they decided to stand against Dullindal.

The whole time they already came to the conclusion that Dullindal indoubtedly would take care of Requiem, which is why they didn't do anything to "help" him.

Out of curiosity, what language did you watch it in?

No, they definitely talked about it. Or at the very least, Kira talked about Requiem being the retaliation for Genesis, which I took to mean the destruction of the EA fleet. And to be honest, that's a very logical assumption because that's the ONLY shot Genesis ever fired that took many lives that someone may use as justification for retaliation.

And so, by making their "choice", they became the biggest hypocrites ever. Because, see, for the longest time they were intervening in the worst possible moment, trying to stop all wars. And then all of the sudden, they're all like "Teehee, wars are the cost of giving people a choice! So we have no problems here, brb, taking out the one guy that might have done humanity good." And all in itself, there's nothing wrong with changing perspective - if done right and believable, it might even be quite amazing. Needless to say, it was not done right.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Lelite

Out of curiosity, what language did you watch it in?

No, they definitely talked about it. Or at the very least, Kira talked about Requiem being the retaliation for Genesis, which I took to mean the destruction of the EA fleet. And to be honest, that's a very logical assumption because that's the ONLY shot Genesis ever fired that took many lives that someone may use as justification for retaliation.

And so, by making their "choice", they became the biggest hypocrites ever. Because, see, for the longest time they were intervening in the worst possible moment, trying to stop all wars. And then all of the sudden, they're all like "Teehee, wars are the cost of giving people a choice! So we have no problems here, brb, taking out the one guy that might have done humanity good." And all in itself, there's nothing wrong with changing perspective - if done right and believable, it might even be quite amazing. Needless to say, it was not done right.

Don humanity some good?

Durrandal wanted to create an authorative dictatorship with him telling everyone what to do. Dreams? Meaningless. Hope? Gone. Durandall decides your future and if he wants you to become a garbage man you are a garbage man.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Lelite

Because, see, for the longest time they were intervening in the worst possible moment, trying to stop all wars.

You're probably confusing the Archangel crew's motivations with those of Celestial Being.

[SonicX_Zero]

Originally Posted by monstert

You're probably confusing the Archangel crew's motivations with those of Celestial Being.

Pretty selfish of them being concerned only about Orb and not about the war as a whole.