AnimeSuki Forums

Chris38 · 2010-01-03, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by velvet nightmare

has there ever been an individual in the past who has mastered the vampire blood? (or is/will tsukene the first?) iirc there have only been cases of ghouls right?

Now that's a hard question to put it simply I don't think that it has been mentioned anywhere in the manga if there was someone before Tsukune who got injected with vampire blood and survived.

It has been sort of implied during the Ghoul arc that there existed people before Tsukune, but judging from how Inner Moka has explained it and that the"berserk" Tsukune was the first person Inner Moka tried to kill, I think that we can assume that Tsukune is the first person who was saved from becoming a "Ghoul" in a other way then being killed, and has been provided with means to master the power's given to him by Inner Moka.

GrrDraxin · 2010-01-03, 17:31

Tsukune is probably the first "non-violent" ghoul(partially) that anyone is aware of. Chances are that this is all an experiment to see what works and what doesn't when trying to "bridge the gap" between humans and youkai (specifically vampires).

It also seems that even though it was a success up to this point with Tsukune, they were probably others that were not, including Hokuto. Of whom, by the way, could be considered a success as well, if it wasn't for his rebel plan to bring down the grand barrier. So it was more like his values put him into the failure pile, while Tsukune is a success in both his biological uptake of vampire ability, and his high moral stance of peace and harmony that he touts with his harem.

After all, it's fairly rare for vampires to associate with other races like Moka does with Tsukune and the others. So, being that Tsukune is also a social roll model as well, is probably the whole reason that the headmaster decided to take the effort to save him rather than to let him die, as the consequences of Tsukune dying would have very severe repercussions on Moka and the other girls that the headmaster probably would rather not have to deal with, and his experiment would be over.

So I kind of consider the headmaster and the bus driver like a pair of mad scientists experimenting with various aspects of Tsukune and his harem's lives to try and get an outcome that they desire. Evil is easy to get from a setup like this, however getting someone as good and resilient of mind, heart and soul like Tsukune is very difficult, so it's possible that he's the first to be able to pull off everything he's accomplished up to now in all aspects of his life.

He not only befriended the "cream of the crop" youkai as his trusted friends and comrades, but he even has the strong possibility to bread with one or more of them. Plus the possibility that his new blood could pass to his offspring, which if that is the case, it doesn't matter who he breeds with, the result will be interesting.

Then there is his social impact that he's made to the lives of many youkai even outside of his harem and friends. Which makes him a very interesting center point of study in social interactions. As one fanfiction I've read once put it: "Tsukune changes them(his harem and/or others) more than they change him," which seems to hold quite true with pretty much everybody he deems a friend, Moka especially, and even Hokuto to a lesser extent.

The fact that it's hinted at Tsukune and Moka "moving the world" in some way, could imply that the changes that a union between them will have a powerful effect on the workings of the youkai world, and that they will lead them into some sort of Golden Age that benefits both youkai and humans. But surely not without conflict and dissension in the process.

So I would not be surprised to see a panel with the headmaster and bus driver watching the group, while saying that Tsukune is perhaps the greatest success they could have ever hoped for, and that not only did he meet their expectations, but far surpassed them as well. Probably something that nobody else has even come close to doing up till now.

So if anything, you'll bet that the first thing they'll do when the group graduates from Youkai Academy, is to offer some pretty important job positions to continue spreading this positive influence that the group seems to put out in droves. So whether it's in the normal world, or the underworld(like Wong always says), the world will be making some drastic changes indeed.

HayashiTakara · 2010-01-03, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by velvet nightmare

has there ever been an individual in the past who has mastered the vampire blood? (or is/will tsukene the first?) iirc there have only been cases of ghouls right?

Um, Tsukune technically isn't a ghoul. A ghoul is a corpse taken over by a malevolent spirit. Tsukune is just being overwhelmed and controlled by the blood. Since vampires by nature are extremely violent and warlike.

This was explained during the Outcast Arc.

As far as history is concerned, no one knows.

Tempest35 · 2010-01-03, 22:32

Ah boy, I really want to reply to all of these long posts...but I'm still exhausted from traveling back to Ft. Gordon (Don't worry, all fics are with me this time).

Could humans become vampires? Yeah they can but it's a lot harder to do so now than back then. I don't think that vampires actively hunt humans anymore so there's a lot less of them around.

Which reminds me... Moka, go beat the crap outta Edward ... Gin, you take that werewolf guy... In fact, Newspaper club, go take out the Twilight cast for me.... ><

GrrDraxin · 2010-01-04, 00:26

Eh? What you talkin bout Willis... I mean Tempest?

Angelic Cross · 2010-01-04, 00:33

So, with the English teacher, who do we have on the list of known faculty members thus far (that haven't been fired for attacking students)?

Also, anyone want to make a guess at the English teacher's monster form? I think he's a kamaitachi.

HayashiTakara · 2010-01-04, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Ah boy, I really want to reply to all of these long posts...but I'm still exhausted from traveling back to Ft. Gordon (Don't worry, all fics are with me this time).

Could humans become vampires? Yeah they can but it's a lot harder to do so now than back then. I don't think that vampires actively hunt humans anymore so there's a lot less of them around.

Which reminds me... Moka, go beat the crap outta Edward ... Gin, you take that werewolf guy... In fact, Newspaper club, go take out the Twilight cast for me.... ><

Well... uh... Vampires are conceived in this series, not "created". So hunting humans isn't apart of the equation.

Chris38 · 2010-01-04, 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Well... uh... Vampires are conceived in this series, not "created". So hunting humans isn't apart of the equation.

But haven't it been mentioned in chapter 24 ( Season I ) that vampires where originally like Tsukune in his "berserk" form.

I think Inner Moka also mentioned during chapter 23 that Tsukune if left alone would eventually hunt humans for blood.

So I don't think that we shouldn't consider that "some" vampires still hunt humans for fun are because they became addicted to the taste of fresh blood. Ugh ... I'm getting the creeps already.

DragoZERO · 2010-01-04, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Ah boy, I really want to reply to all of these long posts...but I'm still exhausted from traveling back to Ft. Gordon (Don't worry, all fics are with me this time).

Yeah. I don't have the time right now and I do plan on replying to them. But I did rep Chris for it. The little that I did manage to read before being interrupted is good.

HayashiTakara · 2010-01-04, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris38

But haven't it been mentioned in chapter 24 ( Season I ) that vampires where originally like Tsukune in his "berserk" form.

I think Inner Moka also mentioned during chapter 23 that Tsukune if left alone would eventually hunt humans for blood.

So I don't think that we shouldn't consider that "some" vampires still hunt humans for fun are because they became addicted to the taste of fresh blood. Ugh ... I'm getting the creeps already.

Well I think he meant in hunting humans in the way of classical vampires creating other vampires by bites. Vampires here are created through conception rather than biting, another interesting thing... in classical literature vampires are made merely by get bitten, but in this Tsukune became this way by being introduced to vampiric blood instead. Though of course vampires drink blood in this, but it seems like it's an instinctual habit rather than a necessity for survival.

Magin · 2010-01-04, 13:59

Finally... things return to normal...

I like theory as much as the next guy (hell, I'm working on theories for one of the character in NEEDLESS), but analyzing Tsukune and his lock that much... that's just overload and becomes a case of tl;dr

and because of that, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy this chapter the story

Altima of the Gates · 2010-01-04, 16:51

Agreed, too much analysis can be a little hard to take in such long droves. Though I've been guilty of having Wall o' Text syndrome once or twice.

I liked chapter 26, great for relationship development for two reasons, 1.) Obviously giving more credence to the Moka x Tsukune relationship, and 2.) For a reason few seem to give solid credit to, the comraderie between the girls. Which are one of the main reasons I like this manga so much (even though we all know there will be issues with it later). In this chapter, when Inner was so down about , the girls, even being as fearful/envious of her, gave her a hand up. That pie would have been another disaster without them. Cue their 'disappointment' at giving a rival a hand.

I like that. Sometimes I feel they get too little credit for being excellent friends.

Kafriel · 2010-01-05, 04:16

Quote:

that's just overload and becomes a case of tl;dr

Now you know why I'm not as active here :P
The last two chapters were very nice, it's like the author wants to tell us that ALL characters are important, and their roles can shift dramatically over the course of a single chapter, which makes R+V quite interesting.

Chris38 · 2010-01-05, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Now you know why I'm not as active here :P
The last two chapters were very nice, it's like the author wants to tell us that ALL characters are important, and their roles can shift dramatically over the course of a single chapter, which makes R+V quite interesting.

This fact is what makes me, kind of afraid about how the ending will look like, since the author has shown lately that as you said Kafriel the author seems to consider all the characters important, but on the hand we get much development in Inner Moka's case, but we have been shown that all the girls in Tsukune's harem have very strong feelings ( that seem to show that what the girls fell for Tsukune is more then infatuation ).

So what this developments are making me worried about, is that we might not get a conclusive ending of the manga.

Well, maybe the next chapter is gonna take this worries of my back, since it looks like Inner Moka is gonna stay released for some time, so we might get some "interesting" developments.

Kafriel · 2010-01-05, 07:24

Even if we get an open ending, the manga's much more serious than the anime, so I doubt it will be half-assed or funny. Moka getting more attention is natural (someone's gotta play the heroine!) but the fact that everyone's serious over the "everyone might be hinting at something but just tease the hero who would have otherwise overlooked them" gets R+V on a different level from harem mangas.

HayashiTakara · 2010-01-05, 11:24

I like R+V's situation as a Harem because it's actually pointing out the difficulties of being in such a situation.

Tempest35 · 2010-01-05, 13:28

Ah yes, the difficulties of being liked/adored/loved by a cute/sexy bi-polar vampire, a succubus who wants to lose her 'innocence' with you, a stalker yukionna, a bi-sexual loli and a masochist witch...

Many difficulties indeed.

Forbin · 2010-01-05, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Ah yes, the difficulties of being liked/adored/loved by a cute/sexy bi-polar vampire, a succubus who wants to lose her 'innocence' with you, a stalker yukionna, a bi-sexual loli and a masochist witch...

Many difficulties indeed.

At least this isn't Kampfer or School rumble where the protagonist isn't even aware of his harem.

lightbringer · 2010-01-05, 15:46

I think open ending is the most likely for this kind of story, but if there will be closure then it will be with Moka, who's been pushed as OTP since day one. Although I would be ok with any of them (or none) being paired up with him. But I wonder (like probably many others here) if the sudden focus on Inner Moka means the end is in sight.

HayashiTakara · 2010-01-05, 16:16

I'll continue to root for a "True Harem" ending. It'll be funny if Kokoa hooks up with the lolicon karate captain

2010-01-03, 17:31	Link #12742
GrrDraxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Empire of Lolitannia (as Ambassador) Age: 45	Tsukune is probably the first "non-violent" ghoul(partially) that anyone is aware of. Chances are that this is all an experiment to see what works and what doesn't when trying to "bridge the gap" between humans and youkai (specifically vampires). It also seems that even though it was a success up to this point with Tsukune, they were probably others that were not, including Hokuto. Of whom, by the way, could be considered a success as well, if it wasn't for his rebel plan to bring down the grand barrier. So it was more like his values put him into the failure pile, while Tsukune is a success in both his biological uptake of vampire ability, and his high moral stance of peace and harmony that he touts with his harem. After all, it's fairly rare for vampires to associate with other races like Moka does with Tsukune and the others. So, being that Tsukune is also a social roll model as well, is probably the whole reason that the headmaster decided to take the effort to save him rather than to let him die, as the consequences of Tsukune dying would have very severe repercussions on Moka and the other girls that the headmaster probably would rather not have to deal with, and his experiment would be over. So I kind of consider the headmaster and the bus driver like a pair of mad scientists experimenting with various aspects of Tsukune and his harem's lives to try and get an outcome that they desire. Evil is easy to get from a setup like this, however getting someone as good and resilient of mind, heart and soul like Tsukune is very difficult, so it's possible that he's the first to be able to pull off everything he's accomplished up to now in all aspects of his life. He not only befriended the "cream of the crop" youkai as his trusted friends and comrades, but he even has the strong possibility to bread with one or more of them. Plus the possibility that his new blood could pass to his offspring, which if that is the case, it doesn't matter who he breeds with, the result will be interesting. Then there is his social impact that he's made to the lives of many youkai even outside of his harem and friends. Which makes him a very interesting center point of study in social interactions. As one fanfiction I've read once put it: "Tsukune changes them(his harem and/or others) more than they change him," which seems to hold quite true with pretty much everybody he deems a friend, Moka especially, and even Hokuto to a lesser extent. The fact that it's hinted at Tsukune and Moka "moving the world" in some way, could imply that the changes that a union between them will have a powerful effect on the workings of the youkai world, and that they will lead them into some sort of Golden Age that benefits both youkai and humans. But surely not without conflict and dissension in the process. So I would not be surprised to see a panel with the headmaster and bus driver watching the group, while saying that Tsukune is perhaps the greatest success they could have ever hoped for, and that not only did he meet their expectations, but far surpassed them as well. Probably something that nobody else has even come close to doing up till now. So if anything, you'll bet that the first thing they'll do when the group graduates from Youkai Academy, is to offer some pretty important job positions to continue spreading this positive influence that the group seems to put out in droves. So whether it's in the normal world, or the underworld(like Wong always says), the world will be making some drastic changes indeed. __________________

2010-01-03, 22:32	Link #12744
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	Ah boy, I really want to reply to all of these long posts...but I'm still exhausted from traveling back to Ft. Gordon (Don't worry, all fics are with me this time). Could humans become vampires? Yeah they can but it's a lot harder to do so now than back then. I don't think that vampires actively hunt humans anymore so there's a lot less of them around. Which reminds me... Moka, go beat the crap outta Edward ... Gin, you take that werewolf guy... In fact, Newspaper club, go take out the Twilight cast for me.... >< __________________ "Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."

2010-01-04, 00:26	Link #12745
GrrDraxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Empire of Lolitannia (as Ambassador) Age: 45	Eh? What you talkin bout Willis... I mean Tempest? __________________

2010-01-04, 13:59	Link #12751
Magin #1 Akashiya Moka Fan Author Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Where magic is real Age: 35	Finally... things return to normal... I like theory as much as the next guy (hell, I'm working on theories for one of the character in NEEDLESS), but analyzing Tsukune and his lock that much... that's just overload and becomes a case of tl;dr and because of that, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy this chapter the story __________________ Gifted...or Cursed? R+V fanfic- Chapter 4 of A Water Bride and a Vampire is now up at FF.net! All fans of Inner or Outer Moka, come join her fanclub!

2010-01-05, 11:24	Link #12756
HayashiTakara Chicken or Beef? Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle Age: 41	I like R+V's situation as a Harem because it's actually pointing out the difficulties of being in such a situation. __________________ http://htakara82.deviantart.com/

2010-01-04, 00:33	Link #12746
Angelic Cross Soul-eating Librarian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Within the stacks. . .waiting to devour you. . .	So, with the English teacher, who do we have on the list of known faculty members thus far (that haven't been fired for attacking students)? Also, anyone want to make a guess at the English teacher's monster form? I think he's a kamaitachi.

2010-01-04, 16:51	Link #12752
Altima of the Gates Casting a spell on you... Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Where there are no mallets or tentacles.... and the female cast of Tenjou Tenge is mine, all mine! Age: 40	Agreed, too much analysis can be a little hard to take in such long droves. Though I've been guilty of having Wall o' Text syndrome once or twice. I liked chapter 26, great for relationship development for two reasons, 1.) Obviously giving more credence to the Moka x Tsukune relationship, and 2.) For a reason few seem to give solid credit to, the comraderie between the girls. Which are one of the main reasons I like this manga so much (even though we all know there will be issues with it later). In this chapter, when Inner was so down about , the girls, even being as fearful/envious of her, gave her a hand up. That pie would have been another disaster without them. Cue their 'disappointment' at giving a rival a hand. I like that. Sometimes I feel they get too little credit for being excellent friends.

2010-01-05, 07:24	Link #12755
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 35	Even if we get an open ending, the manga's much more serious than the anime, so I doubt it will be half-assed or funny. Moka getting more attention is natural (someone's gotta play the heroine!) but the fact that everyone's serious over the "everyone might be hinting at something but just tease the hero who would have otherwise overlooked them" gets R+V on a different level from harem mangas.

2010-01-05, 13:28	Link #12757
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	Ah yes, the difficulties of being liked/adored/loved by a cute/sexy bi-polar vampire, a succubus who wants to lose her 'innocence' with you, a stalker yukionna, a bi-sexual loli and a masochist witch... Many difficulties indeed. __________________ "Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."

2010-01-05, 15:46	Link #12759
lightbringer M9000 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SBC Gurokken	I think open ending is the most likely for this kind of story, but if there will be closure then it will be with Moka, who's been pushed as OTP since day one. Although I would be ok with any of them (or none) being paired up with him. But I wonder (like probably many others here) if the sudden focus on Inner Moka means the end is in sight.

2010-01-05, 16:16	Link #12760
HayashiTakara Chicken or Beef? Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle Age: 41	I'll continue to root for a "True Harem" ending. It'll be funny if Kokoa hooks up with the lolicon karate captain __________________ http://htakara82.deviantart.com/