Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[pinoscotto]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

There you go... Fixed!

@Haak: Maybe because their evolution was not driven by natural, but artificial selection. As for the director, yes ep.5 was worse, but here it was also damn annoying too.

nah it's just your taste cause it was really good this time (while ep5 was shit)

[Blaat]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

for the director, yes ep.5 was worse, but here it was also damn annoying too.

Yeah it was annoying and too damn distracting. I really have no idea why Shigeyasu Yamauchi keeps thinking that zooming in on half faces, focusing on the bodies while nothing is happening is good storyboarding for me it feels amateurish something you would expect in college student film and not in an anime.
The different colour palette while beautiful was too inconsistent, it took me a while to realise this was happening in the real world and not in some weird mindscape. :\ But I have to admit by the end I do think it added to the episode rather distracting like in episode five. There was also no off model looking character, I'm guessing Shun wearing an expressionless mask helped a lot.

As for the actual content I didn't feel any emotional connection (thank you Yamauchi!) as I was too busy going like this:

NSFW

a youtube video with lots of swearing

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Triple_R]

I strongly disagree with this "Saki was only in love with an "idealized" Shun. So her feelings for the real Shun was just a crush" argument.

You know, for the longest time, people were suspecting Shun of having some great inner evil in him. Of being untrustworthy. Of manipulating his friends rather than being honest and sincere with them.

In my view, this episode completely and utterly blows those ideas out of the water. The poor guy calmly went to his death because he didn't want to hurt his loved ones anymore. Some great inner evil...

So on what basis do people say that Saki only loved an idealized Shun? Because she didn't know all his inner turmoil?

But that inner turmoil doesn't change the sincerity of his love for Saki. It doesn't change his core personality. It just makes him a much sadder and more tragic figure. If anything, Saki learning more about the extent of Shun's inner turmoil in this episode merely made her love him even more.


Did Saki turn away when she saw what Shun had turned into? Did her love for him fade upon seeing the depths of his descent into becoming a Karma Demon?

No, not at all. In fact, it made her want even more to not leave his side!


I'm amazed at how many people can miss such strong, powerful, true love here.

Saki had just finished barely surviving an encountering with one of those PK-killing cats when she met up with Shun. You'd think the girl would be in a panic to stay alive! But even after that PK-killing cat encounter, all she can think about is finding Shun, saving Shun, and learning more about Shun.

Some questions to consider:

1) Who did Shun give the necklace charm too? Satoru, or Saki?

2) Who was the first to give up on trying to find Shun? Satoru, or Saki?

3) When Saki and Satoru were going through the Queerat War Adventure together, did Saki ever think of Shun? If so, what was her reaction to thinking about him?

4) In contrast to Question 3, did Satoru come up at all in this episode? Did either Saki or Shun stop for a second to think about their mutual friends?


You know, if I was in Shun's position, I'd probably want to send a farewell message to all my closest friends. The fact Shun never bothered to ask Saki to pass such a message on to Satoru, Maria, or Mamoru is telling, in my view. Especially since he went to great lengths to have a "10 minute" conversation with Saki (one that required him to have steely concentration when it comes to those orbs that were flying around).


I mean, short of becoming a "Romance as Primary Genre" story, what more can this narrative possibly do to show that Shun loves Saki more than he did any of his other peers? What more can this narrative possibly do to show that Saki loves Shun more than she did any of her other peers?

The implications are so breathtakingly clear, in my view.


But, in fairness, I will say this - There's a couple key pieces of information that the anime doesn't state explicitly that leaves things murkier than what they should be. Once you know them, a lot of things become much clearer, imo. If anybody wants to know what I'm talking about here, please PM me.

It doesn't spoil any future event, by the way.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You know, for the longest time, people were suspecting Shun of having some great inner evil in him. Of being untrustworthy. Of manipulating his friends rather than being honest and sincere with them.

In my view, this episode completely and utterly blows those ideas out of the water. The poor guy calmly went to his death because he didn't want to hurt his loved ones anymore. Some great inner evil...

I agree, with one reservation... we are oversimplifying here with good vs evil. Think about it, Shun killed his parents along with probably many more villagers or at least that is what an outside observer will see, and for him that is definitely evil since he did it because he prioritized his own survival over so many others. But from his and his friends' perspective, he tried really hard to control himself, so he did the best he could, and ended up giving up, which is what one would expect, nothing more.

Labeling him as evil or not is just simplistic.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So on what basis do people say that Saki only loved an idealized Shun? Because she didn't know all his inner turmoil?

But that inner turmoil doesn't change the sincerity of his love for Saki. It doesn't change his core personality. It just makes him a much sadder and more tragic figure. If anything, Saki learning more about the extent of Shun's inner turmoil in this episode merely made her love him even more.


Did Saki turn away when she saw what Shun had turned into? Did her love for him fade upon seeing the depths of his descent into becoming a Karma Demon?

No, not at all. In fact, it made her want even more to not leave his side!


I'm amazed at how many people can miss such strong, powerful, true love here.

Saki had just finished barely surviving an encountering with one of those PK-killing cats when she met up with Shun. You'd think the girl would be in a panic to stay alive! But even after that PK-killing cat encounter, all she can think about is finding Shun, saving Shun, and learning more about Shun.

Some questions to consider:

1) Who did Shun give the necklace charm too? Satoru, or Saki?

2) Who was the first to give up on trying to find Shun? Satoru, or Saki?

3) When Saki and Satoru were going through the Queerat War Adventure together, did Saki ever think of Shun? If so, what was her reaction to thinking about him?

4) In contrast to Question 3, did Satoru come up at all in this episode? Did either Saki or Shun stop for a second to think about their mutual friends?


You know, if I was in Shun's position, I'd probably want to send a farewell message to all my closest friends. The fact Shun never bothered to ask Saki to pass such a message on to Satoru, Maria, or Mamoru is telling, in my view. Especially since he went to great lengths to have a "10 minute" conversation with Saki (one that required him to have steely concentration when it comes to those orbs that were flying around).


I mean, short of becoming a "Romance as Primary Genre" story, what more can this narrative possibly do to show that Shun loves Saki more than he did any of his other peers? What more can this narrative possibly do to show that Saki loves Shun more than she did any of her other peers?

The implications are so breathtakingly clear, in my view.


But, in fairness, I will say this - There's a couple key pieces of information that the anime doesn't state explicitly that leaves things murkier than what they should be. Once you know them, a lot of things become much clearer, imo. If anybody wants to know what I'm talking about here, please PM me.

It doesn't spoil any future event, by the way.

A couple would be an understatement

Anyway, Saki hardly interacted with Shun (well as much as Mamoru), she had absolutely no understanding about the way he was thinking, and struggled with her feelings alone most of the time or rarely at a superficial level him. All her time with him was along with their friends, with one notable exception, which obviously everyone is thinking of... but that was it. On the other hand, she understands and is understood a lot more with Maria and Satoru. They mutually care about eachother, and had shared a lot more.

Now I understand that Shun was a very private person, but that did not stop him from opening up a lot more to Satoru, then Saki.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Now I understand that Shun was a very private person, but that did not stop him from opening up a lot more to Satoru, then Saki.

I need proof for this statement.

The lines are there! Shun had said what is deep in his heart.. even before he died!!!! HE ALWAYS HAVE CARED FOR SAKI... He didn't need to french kiss, nor flirt like Satoru and Maria did to show love... Even words aren't necessary so that the feelings couldn't be understood....

Shun ad Saki.. really, really, really, really love each other...!



Is this not enough?

[Guardian Enzo]

Not much to add except to reiterate that this was an emotionally devastating episode. Seeing what was coming did nothing to lessen the impact. Also, after the massive controversy surrounding Yamauchi Shigeyasu's work on episode 5 it's interesting to see relatively positive reaction this time. I actually liked that episode, but his style definitely worked even better here.

When discussing the strengths of this episode, it would be criminal not to call out Komori Shigeo’s soundtrack – which has been superb from the beginning but was more front-and-center this week – and the work of Murase Ayumu and Taneda Risa as Shun and Saki. These are two relatively unknown and very young seiyuu, but they’ve been doing a fine job – Taneda-san since the premiere – and both were spot-on here. The only two human voices in the episode, they had to carry the entire enterprise emotionally and they did, with Murase perfectly capturing Shun’s not quite successful attempt to feel detachment about what was happening to him and Taneda Saki’s abject and utterly bereft heartbreak as she watched it.

As to the revelations that Shun shared with Saki before he died, all I can say is that it all makes sense given what we’ve seen thus far. Effectively, this is a world where mankind – some of it, anyway – has seen its unconscious attain the power to manifest actions without the “filter” of the conscious, and directly impact the world around itself. It’s a nightmare scenario, and Shun’s iceberg analogy was spot-on – in the human mind, the conscious is only a tiny percentage of the brain’s activity.

Shun’s rampaging cantus has already caused the destruction of his village (kudos to those who called that – I didn’t) and his karma demon condition – “Hashimoto-Appelbaum Syndrome” apparently has no cure. That seems symbolic for the society as a whole – whatever caused the barrier that held the subconscious in-check to break, everything that’s being done now seems a “lesser of two evils” choice – the last twitching of a dying civilization trying to stave off the descent into savage chaos for as long as possible, knowing it’s a battle they’ll eventually lose. Shin Sekai Yori has been a tragedy right from the very beginning, but – as is often the case – the tragedy of the larger story becomes much more powerful when we see it played out in the fate of individuals, especially children like Saki and Shun.

[deadsea]

I was reviewing the previous chapters, and it all makes more sense now, I guess the watch episodes every week, makes us forget some small details.About Saki- Sjuun there are many clues to the interest of Shun in Saki, was always encouraging and supporting her.

[Korps!]

Originally Posted by Elestia

Episode was okay. I couldn't really invest myself into empathizing with Shun since he was so underdeveloped throughout the entire series. He remained mostly a one dimensional character and met his end in an anti-cimatic way.

I actually felt more sorry for Subaru than Shun in the end.

This pretty much. When I found myself more invested in a pointless dog's unshakable loyalty to his master than the main characters' parting I'm sure they could have handle things a lot better. Nice visuals though.

[Kanon]

The series has just reached its peak with this emotionally devasting, intimist episode. The emotions were so strong they were palpable.

I didn't expect Yamauichi to get criticized so much once again. I didn't like what he did with episode 5, but I thought his style suited the eerie atmosphere of this episode perfectly. I don't think it would have been better with a more traditional directing. The stellar soundtrack contributed a lot to the success of this episode as well.

Shun's fate was truly tragic, especially since he had never done anything to deserve this. No evil lurked in his heart, he was just one of the unlucky ones affected by the syndrome. I wish he had been developed more prior to this. He still remains a pretty enigmatic character in my eyes. I've always been under the impression he was internally rebelling against the system, however I'm not so sure anymore. He didn't express any resentment in this episode, on the contrary, he seemed to understand the strict rules were a necessary evil to contain karma demons like him and ensure a peaceful life for PKers.

That was a highly informative episode as well. The revelation that the holy barrier redirects leaking canti to the outside world makes it likely the Queerats are humans who have mutated much like Subaru due to their constant exposure to PK. PK is an incredibly dangerous power.

[kuromitsu]

*reads thread*

Seriously, guys?

Shun loved Saki. Saki loved Shun. This was made crystal clear and those who haven't noticed it either weren't paying attention or expected something that this story was never about to give.

Is "how much did they love each other" even important here? Is "was it True Love or not" even important? Especially considering that Shun died? The only thing that is really important here as far as characters and emotions go and now is how this will affect Saki and the rest of the group, and that is for the next episode.

(And frankly, all this "let's compare/judge the anime on the basis of a novel that we haven't even read and only have second-hand, out-of-context bits of information to go by" is getting very old. If you want to compare/judge then go and read the novel, and then come back and complain if you still want to.)

[NoemiChan]

Any chance that he may be still alive?

[Dauerlutscher]

I seriously doubt it.

---------------------------------------------

Damn this episode was emotional.

[NoemiChan]

So he was just consumed by his own power? whats the mask for... Symbolic of something?

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

That seems symbolic for the society as a whole – whatever caused the barrier that held the subconscious in-check to break, everything that’s being done now seems a “lesser of two evils” choice – the last twitching of a dying civilization trying to stave off the descent into savage chaos for as long as possible, knowing it’s a battle they’ll eventually lose.

Yes, I think this is by far the most gripping aspect of this story - there are other aspects that are interesting, but I have a weakness against this type of setting and mood, which is not quite fatalistic, but ultimately you don't see a lot of light on the horizon.

[ookamigirl]

Saki finally found Shun.
It was a pretty weird encounter.
Lots of new info this time.
So they are the threat to to outside world and not the other way around.
Shun's dog was rather unique.
So Shun's going out of control... it really was sad...

[hai_san]

Great Ep even with the new artistic animation, not my kind but still amazing storywise, poor Shun and sad ending for him.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I didn't expect Yamauichi to get criticized so much once again. I didn't like what he did with episode 5, but I thought his style suited the eerie atmosphere of this episode perfectly. I don't think it would have been better with a more traditional directing. The stellar soundtrack contributed a lot to the success of this episode as well.

I personally think a conventional style would have matched Shun and Saki's confrontation way better in term of how it could have shown the way everyone is drifting apart, and the distance between them.
There is little sense of perspective in this episode, considering the persistent use of close camera pan, and while the usual "half close up, hiding the eyes" ploy can imply a deep sorrow or incoming snapping moment for the said character, since it was countlessly done on Saki, it barely gives a sense of real "emotional shattering". At least that's how I would have felt without voice/script visible, as the imagery for both characters emotions are really off imho.

Whereas I wasn't that disturbed by this style in Casshern SINS, complimenting the chaotic and melancholic mood, it was just pushing it too much in this ep. In fact, more often than not, I notice almost an absolute lack of facial expressions (Saki under that "cat" attack, Saki just finding Shun in the lake, etc).

[_reine]

Ah, that episode made me sad... As one of the people who really wanted to see Saki x Shun together, I was kind of devastated that that possibility seems out the door now.

Although... did anyone watch the episode 11 preview?
Or am I the only one that's confused by it? hahaha.

Also, I'm a little confused. I've been lurking on the SSY subforum and there's been lots of mention of it, but is each episode drawn / directed by someone else?

Every question always leaves me with more questions... v_v
The mask, the weird eye (had me thinking he was evil for that ep @: .....)

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Whereas I wasn't that disturbed by this style in Casshern SINS, complimenting the chaotic and melancholic mood, it was just pushing it too much in this ep. In fact, more often than not, I notice almost an absolute lack of facial expressions (Saki under that "cat" attack, Saki just finding Shun in the lake, etc).

Imo the artwork in this episode is presented better than all the derpy faces in the episode where Shun leaves Saki. I mean, if you can’t draw the faces right, might as well not show them like in this episode.

As for the animation style itself, I don’t really mind since I like the style in Casshern Sins.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Imo the artwork in this episode is presented better than all the derpy faces in the episode where Shun leaves Saki. I mean, if you can’t draw the faces right, might as well not show them like in this episode.

As for the animation style itself, I don’t really mind since I like the style in Casshern Sins.

I never said the artwork is any worse. It is how it was used here: instead of using expressions and emotional impact to its fullest, we have messy way to portray characters all around.
And the animation itself is nowhere close to Casshern: the execution and presentation is very close due to Yamauchi's shenanigan style, but the animation itself is so different like day and night, as the former has not the latter's budget.