Rozen Maiden - Q & A

[klinton]

Nice...gotta love the Japanese. Layers and layers...

[Shinku Hime]

I want to ask, what IS Megu's sickness? I don't get it at all...

[Deathkillz]

^ well i think it was said once that she had some kind of heart disease? her heart can stop at any moment methinks and thus she is quite weak physically >.<

[Ziv]

Originally Posted by Lost

there was nothing "fanservicy" before episode 10 to suggest anything of this sort."

incorrect. In the very first episode, Nori asks Jun if Shinku is a "foreign Dutch Wife". Later in Traumend as Jun returns with a book on the dolls (which he attempts to hide), she tells him that it's perfectly normal for boys his age to be interested in "those sorts of things". It's fairly obvious to conclude that Nori does have incestuous thoughts about Jun.

screenies for the unbelievers

Spoiler:

Overall though, it seems to mainly be in there for comedy relief.

[klinton]

Originally Posted by Ziv

It's fairly obvious to conclude that Nori does have incestuous thoughts about Jun.

screenies for the unbelievers

Spoiler:

Overall though, it seems to mainly be in there for comedy relief.

I think that's more of a plot device than something we'll see developed to any extent. It helps to explain her catering to his needs...so that the writers need not concern themselves with the day to day functions, as Nori does them. (Ex: Do they need a scene at the dinner table: have Nori prepare everything offscreen...ect. Who actually cleaned up Hina's mess while Jun and the dolls were on an adventure? The ever dedicated Nori...again, offscreen.)

[ShadowVlican]

what order should i watch all of Rozen Maiden in? (maybe you can add it to your FAQ as well, or expand upon the section that talks about Traumend)

i see the following in AniDB:
Rozen Maiden (2386)
Rozen Maiden: Traumend (3169)
Rozen Maiden - Ouverture (4772)

i take it that i watch in that order?

[aldw]

Chronological order is:

Ouverture
Rozen Maiden
Traumend

[Ziv]

Originally Posted by ShadowVlican

what order should i watch all of Rozen Maiden in? (maybe you can add it to your FAQ as well, or expand upon the section that talks about Traumend)

i see the following in AniDB:
Rozen Maiden (2386)
Rozen Maiden: Traumend (3169)
Rozen Maiden - Ouverture (4772)

i take it that i watch in that order?

yes, that's the correct order to watch it in.

[Question]

What is the aspect ratio of rozen maiden? It seems to be larger than anything ive seen before, providing for a very sharp display.

[Lost]

Depends on what Fan***s you've been watching. However, we should not go any further - with RM and Traumend licensed, "Fan***s" is a bad-word in here. That said, I've only seen 2 aspect ratios for RM - 4:3 and 16:9 (widescreen) ratios. Apparently they are actually aired, twice, in those 2 different aspect ratios. You probably mean resolution if you're talking about "sharp display." But yeah, that depends on Fan***s.

Originally Posted by Ziv

incorrect. In the very first episode, Nori asks Jun if Shinku is a "foreign Dutch Wife". Later in Traumend as Jun returns with a book on the dolls (which he attempts to hide), she tells him that it's perfectly normal for boys his age to be interested in "those sorts of things". It's fairly obvious to conclude that Nori does have incestuous thoughts about Jun.

screenies for the unbelievers

Spoiler:

Thanks, main post has been updated. ^^

Hmm, to be nitpicky, I don't think we can say that only those two comments from Nori immediately point to incestuous thoughts. At most, I feel that they reflect Nori's interest in Jun's sexuality - further than that, we can't say - except of course when S1's ep 10 "dream-scene" comes into play. Infact, the manga of that "Dutch Wife" scene seems to back up the fact that she has an interest in his... development as a male.

Spoiler:

She goes on to say,
"Oh thank goodness, I was getting a little worried. I mean, you've never stolen my underwear or anything. I'll have to call Mom and Dad right away and tell them."

Of course, I can't see any Sister being even interested in an aspect like that; but Nori is Nori. I mean, she is just weird.

Overall though, it seems to mainly be in there for comedy relief.

Dark comedy. I fail how to see incest can be comedy.. =/

[Question]

Where did muir woods make those posts? On his blog?

[Blablabla]

About the Count Saint Germain hypothesis. And other "funny" guy from french history is also quoted in RM vol 5 : Count Cagliostro (the picture is showing him working on a doll).
Like Saint Germain, Cagliostro was found of alchemy and a very well known jocker who also said that he discoverd the secret of immortality.
And guess what ? Cag' pretended to be Saint Germain's apprentice...

[Joojoobees]

I think that you are right that some sort of referencing of Christian Rosenkreuz is going on, even in the Alice Game, which is a purification ritual, and thus has some resemblence to the Chymical Wedding.

There have been many claims that CR did not die, but rather appeared 300 years later as the Count St. Germain. Since these claims fit in with those that St. Germain was, in fact, immortal, it seems reasonable to assume that there is some referencing of this as well, since "Father" is a seemingly immortal being.

I doubt that there is an actual argument being made that "Father" is the Count St. Germain. I find it more likely that inspiration for the series was found in these stories. I say this because one of the things that struck me about the series was the existential quandary the Rozen Maidens find themselves in. To me it seems an excellent analog to humans wondering about our relationship to our creator. What must we do to please our creator? Can we meet him one day?

BTW, there was an excellent novel that discussed Christian Rosenkreuz, the Count St. Germain, the Knights Templar, and all sorts of other stuff. It is called Foucault's Pendulum, and it is by Umberto Eco (who is more famous for the Name of the Rose).

[Guu_chan]

The scene from the manga in which St Germain and cagliostro are mentioned (vol 5) seems to take place in Jun's dreamworld where he is turned back into a little boy ; he finds himself in a park where a mysterious man sitting on a bench is giving a shadow puppet show.
The scenes from the puppet show portray St Germain walking around with a glowing stone, while courtiers and ladies watch and comment, then we see Cagliostro and then a dollmaker in his workshop.
In the end the mysterious man with the puppets reveals himself as the Laplace demon bunny...

(two images from that scene -- but it's the chinese translation)

I guess we'll have to wait till volume 5 is translated (in july) before we know exactly what is being said in this scene (unless someone has read the manga in Japanese and can translate it for us ^_^).

Anyway, hermetic, occult and "gnostic" writing of old are really interesting to read ; there are even some available online (for example here's an English translation of a 15th century treatise on "the art of drawing spirits into crystals" : http://www.esotericarchives.com/tritheim/trchryst.htm )


(And yes, Umberto Eco's books are awesome...)

[_duangelique]

This is a resume according to what Fulcanelli says (original explanation is too long, too mystical) about the Rose-Cross society:

It seems that the actual society never existed. Moreover, there aren't any historical facts that prove that Christian Rozencreuz could have ever existed; rather he was a sort of a "saint" for those people. The real person who iniciated the cult was Valentín Andreae, some guy that published a manuscript called "Fama Fraternitatis Rosae-Crucis", in which he pretended to merge the secrets of the alchemists with the Francmasons' lodges. That never happened, but a rumour about the Rose-Crosses spreaded, saying that they were able to do the most outrageous things, and were really powerful (my teacher, who told me he was a former Rose-Cross, said that he knew how to move small objects with his mind but I never saw that on action).

The only thing that still remains from that days is the "Rose Cross degreee", thet was adopted by the Francmasons

In the XIX century, two orders of the society were created, but soon they dissapeared. Now, even in Google, you can find hundreds of them. Fulcanelli says that they don't have a true mystical basis, but a blend of New Age theories.
From what I understood, Fulcanelli calls as true Rose-Cross masters the true alchemists, since he also explains that "Rosa Mystica" means the Philosopher's Stone, and also the Rose-Cross, a "bleeding heart". Well that is obvious isn't it? The power of the Philosopher's Stone is great enough to compare a soul, the heart that every Rozen Maiden has on herself.

Then he gaves us a little list of people who belonged to the nobility, or reached high status into it, and guess what? The Count of St. Germain hit a spot into it.
That means he was also a member of the "brotherhood", as the author calls it. He says nothing else about the count or the society, but that explained it a little bit more.

(I saw the movie adaptation of Umberto Eco's novel...great!)

[Lost]

Originally Posted by Guu_chan

(two images from that scene -- but it's the chinese translation)

With some help from KBTKaiser (thanks dude!), I managed to put this simple translation together.

what order should i watch all of Rozen Maiden in? (maybe you can add it to your FAQ as well, or expand upon the section that talks about Traumend)

Ah, sorry, missed your post. Yes, looks like with Ouverture out some changes are required to that "Should I watch S1 before Traumend" post.

Also, I was thinking, it'll be good to consolidate all that has been presented here on Rozen vs. Count Germaine/Christian Rosenkreuz in a single FAQ post. It'll be even better if that FAQ post could also include what ever info we already have on Rozen. Any takers?

[Guu_chan]

Whoa! Thanks Mr Lost! Anyway, um... here is the whole scene just in case ^_^ :

Originally Posted by _duangelique

(my teacher, who told me he was a former Rose-Cross, said that he knew how to move small objects with his mind but I never saw that on action).

You're lucky you had interesting teachers... Well, I had a few freemason teachers, but they never did anything occult -- apart from turning me asleep with the power of their mind.


Anyway, the Japanese seem to be really interested in European occultism ; lately there's been another quite well-researched animé called le "Chevalier d'Eon" which takes place during the 18th century and portrays Count St Germain and Count Cagliostro (as villains).

[Question]

Thats easy to explain, the mainstream image of wizards, etc all originated from europe, and legends like merlin. The "asian version" is far less popular...usually involving paper charms and talismans of some kind, and more divinely oriented(they usually call on the protection of gods and spirits for example), and could be better described by the term "Exorcist" or "Priest".

Does anyone have the source of muir wood's posts?

Who's n-field did the traumend night time fight, and the final fight take place in?

Does sousei seki have a medium? She seems only to be functioning under her own power.

Does anyone have the air dates of every episode of rozen maiden and traumend?

How can the dolls consume food and liquids?

[Lost]

Originally Posted by Question

Does anyone have the source of muir wood's posts?

Does anyone have the air dates of every episode of rozen maiden and traumend?

This isn't really a proper question for Q&A, but being a topic that is indexed as an FAQ I don't suppose its wrong. His posts, as you see in Solwyvern's post were all taken from somewhere within the Traumend thread we have. He was (or is) also a regular at 4chan; but good luck finding his posts there.

As for their Air dates, you may find that information at anidb - Rozen Maiden and Traumend.

[klinton]

Originally Posted by Question

Does sousei seki have a medium? She seems only to be functioning under her own power.

What anime have you been watching or manga have you been reading? In both, she is introduced via problems with her medium. Her medium gets the most attention in both, next of course to Jun.