2011-06-12, 12:28 | Link #7423 |
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Basically out of courtesy to people who don't want azul120 and I cluttering up the Lelouch thread with fanfiction discussion.
I don't think we'd be breaking the rules, but at the same time we don't want to be rude either.
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2011-06-13, 01:45 | Link #7425 |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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The whole idea of having her place crosses on the wall was to test the maximum duration of a command. She never stopped, as far as he knows, so he never found a maximum.
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Last edited by morbosfist; 2011-06-14 at 10:38. |
2011-07-01, 07:14 | Link #7427 |
SS Bombardment Mage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Midchilda
Age: 38
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Maybe, maybe not. During one episode (can't remember which though, though I'm thinking it's when he comes back towards the end of R2) the camera goes past the wall (and I'm pretty sure he was there when it did) and a cross is only half done. Whether this was because Geass stopped working midway or she got pulled out of the school because of things (like it was the end of the first season). To be honest, I think I'd place my money on it ending. As far as we know, she only did this during the day, and the battles that would have involved the school (which would be a reason to stop) took place at night. Granted, it's fully possible that he had her do it every 12 hours (or more) as he didn't know much about it at that time. On the flip side though, having it stop right in the middle of it being done? Did she get dragged kicking and screaming from the wall if she was taken away? Having just recently watched this again, the writers definitely didn't like to be clear on things though... probably not such a bad idea to be honest, it keeps interest in the series over time as people debate things. Even though it can also be pretty frustrating.
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2011-07-02, 01:49 | Link #7430 | |
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Anyways, that said.... I did actually consider that thing about her going back... I read somewhere that that was the reason, and that even away she still tries to follow the order. But I'm not sure how much I really buy that, especially with the saying of still trying to follow it. The reason? The mark is only Half Finished. Like I said before, was she drug away from the wall kicking and screaming by her family or something? She keeps trying to obey, so does she keep trying to hop a plane every day or something? Obviously it was important to her for reasons they couldn't comprehend or know about, so would it have killed them to let her finish the mark? Now if she did keep trying to get back obviously then they'd have a problem, but regardless it means the mark should have been completed... not left half done. All throughout the series there are little hints and subtle things going on that help re-enforce or give you clues to things. For example, remember when Nina was "thinking" about Euphemia and Nunnally in and asks if she is ok? Take a look at the table, there is obviously moisture on it (drops are hanging off the edge, so it's not the light). Not that they needed to spell out any more what was going on, but it's an example of that subtle detail and re-enforcement of things. Who is to say the symbol isn't also one? Now, I'll freely admit Suzaku still having his command hurts the "it fades away" theory, but at the same time you can make an argument for it still without (in my opinion) "reaching for straws". The girl was one of the first few commands given, and no matter why she stopped it happened about the time of the Black Rebellion, which gives a time frame for length right there. Now, I don't know the dates of things very well, but even without looking closely at the dates Suzaku has had the "Live" command for a longer time, at least up to the final battle with Kallen in R2. Which begs the question, if it does fade then why hasn't Suzaku's? The easiest to deduce from things is that if a command really resonates with someone they will follow it longer. As much as he sometimes feels like he wants to die, how is he going to carry on changing the system while dead? So even if he doesn't want it, deep deep DEEP down maybe he accepts the command. When he has that battle with the Knight of One Lelouch even comments how he has turned the command into a weapon, so maybe he WANTS to keep the command. Also, lets not forget that people CAN try to disobey the command... Euphy and Nunnally tried very hard to, even if they couldn't in the end if Suzaku wanted he could try, and that moment of fighting it could be all that is needed for him to actually die since it only activates when he is about to. Maybe he didn't know you could fight it, but it goes to show he isn't as committed to dieing as Euphy or Nunnally were to not doing their commands. Another possibility (although admittedly this "reaches for straws" a little in places) is that some form of contact with the world of C or Geass re-enforces the command more. Sort of like going to the gym to build muscles, if you don't keep going it fades away. Suzuka didn't have the command on him that long before the year gap in the story, and during that time he was probably in close contact with Geass and the World of C through the Emperor. Although not through the Emperor in some cases, the same could be said for the other characters we see who have had a long term Geass on them. C.C. was with Nunnally and Lelouch when they went to Japan after their mom's murder, it's plain to see in the first few seconds of the first episode. Who is to say that she didn't keep more tabs on them, I mean it was Marianne's death that caused her to basically give up on the plan... and she knew why Charles sent them away. If you combine the things above together you also have a plausible explanation for Nunnally regaining her eyesight at the end. I mean lets face it, "her willpower overcame it" is kind of flimsy, and we don't know if she just overcame the blindness or if she regained whatever memories he over-wrote. The power kept getting re-enforced through contact with C.C. and then Lelouch when he got Geass, so it never wore off. She didn't necessarily have feelings on it either way, and indeed didn't really think anything was wrong, so had no reason to fight the being blind or get any memories back. Then in the events of R2 the commands stops being re-enforced and when she drops the key she has the willpower and conviction to actually fight it and regain her sight. However, as far as we know it's not possible to disobey (in essence break) a command given by Geass (except by the Geass Cancel ability). Euphy and her were really against the commands he gave, and they still did them in the end. Even when Euphy was dieing and talking to Suzaku she was saying how she couldn't think that he was Japanese. So why was Nunnally able to suddenly break it? I've heard that maybe it is because the Geass lost power when Charles died, but what about the others he used it on then? Anya and the rest still had theirs going until canceled (see R2 picture drama 25.01) and but did she, or anyone else, ever guess something was going on? When Lelouch reveals himself even Milly is like "whoa, he was a prince the whole time!?" If it HAD weakened you would expect at least her to sometime go "I feel like I should know this..." when he appeared. Now, I'll admit the timing of it "wearing off" of Nunnally would be fortunate, but it IS a story we're talking about here. "Good timing" like that is a key in every one. But also, maybe it already had and she just never had a reason to open her eyes? The biggest issue to the above comes from the fact that the bulk of the people who had their memory re-written didn't have close contact besides Nunnally and Anya. His Geass was already at the "two eye" stage though, so maybe his lasted a longer time and we just didn't run into that limit with the others before the Zero Requiem. Besides the above, and even with the hurt that Suzaku puts on it, the "faded" theory is also sort of supported some by the fact that when C.C. became immortal she was turned upon. The people who loved her no longer did iirc. If it was just that her Geass was turned off and rendered in-effective when she became immortal, then what about all the people that had their memories overwritten like Nunnally and the Student Council? Shouldn't they have regained them when Charles became immortal? But they don't seem to do they?
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2011-07-02, 02:16 | Link #7431 | |||||||||
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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QUOTE=Cynor;3675266]I've heard that maybe it is because the Geass lost power when Charles died, but what about the others he used it on then? Anya and the rest still had theirs going until canceled (see R2 picture drama 25.01) and but did she, or anyone else, ever guess something was going on? When Lelouch reveals himself even Milly is like "whoa, he was a prince the whole time!?" If it HAD weakened you would expect at least her to sometime go "I feel like I should know this..." when he appeared. Now, I'll admit the timing of it "wearing off" of Nunnally would be fortunate, but it IS a story we're talking about here. "Good timing" like that is a key in every one. But also, maybe it already had and she just never had a reason to open her eyes? The biggest issue to the above comes from the fact that the bulk of the people who had their memory re-written didn't have close contact besides Nunnally and Anya. His Geass was already at the "two eye" stage though, so maybe his lasted a longer time and we just didn't run into that limit with the others before the Zero Requiem. Besides the above, and even with the hurt that Suzaku puts on it, the "faded" theory is also sort of supported some by the fact that when C.C. became immortal she was turned upon. The people who loved her no longer did iirc. If it was just that her Geass was turned off and rendered in-effective when she became immortal, then what about all the people that had their memories overwritten like Nunnally and the Student Council? Shouldn't they have regained them when Charles became immortal? But they don't seem to do they?[/QUOTE]None of this supports your theory. C.C.'s Geass didn't wear off when she got the code, and they certainly didn't turn on her immediately. I don't know where you're getting that idea, but it's patently untrue. She was persecuted later, for being immortal.
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Last edited by morbosfist; 2011-07-02 at 02:37. |
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2011-07-02, 05:06 | Link #7432 | |
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I was rereading this thread and I read the last few messages....
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2011-07-02, 07:22 | Link #7433 | |||||||
SS Bombardment Mage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Midchilda
Age: 38
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Edit: I just went back and took a look... you can plainly see 5 sets of marks (including the one that she finished) so the question becomes at any point did they say something like "a week has passed since the ghetto incident" in or before episode 5. If they did then it's safe to assume each line is one day, as that would be 10 total and you have to figure he probably Geased her around the time he got back. If they didn't then it could still mean either one. Quote:
Who had the green hair that went down to their waist who you see watching Lelouch and Suzaku climbing that hill at the very start (literally like 30 seconds into the episode it's gone) of Episode 1? It is literally one of the first things you see... An eye opens, it goes to a closeup of a face that has green hair and yellow eyes. Then it cuts to Lelouch and Suzaku climbing a hill and after a few other things pop up it goes wide. Suzaku is helping Lelouch up the hill and there is someone standing there with green hair down to their waist. If that isn't C.C. then who else? As you said, for the rest.... Quote:
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They resisted the command because they didn't like it. or They were trying to disobey it because they didn't like it. If they resist it they don't carry it out (ex Nunnally wouldn't hand over the key). If they disobey it they don't carry it out (again, wouldn't hand over the key). Isn't that the same thing? The outcome is the same, Nunnally doesn't hand over the key. The wording is just different on one. Quote:
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Also, think about this... maybe it had broken before and she just never had a reason to open her eyes. I know I said this already (or meant to) but who says I can't repeat things? "But why didn't she open her eyes before?" you ask? Tell me, if you've lived with something for the last (I think) 8 or 9 years, and didn't realize it had changed, has it really changed? In Nunnally's case, she's been so used to being blind she didn't think about being able to see again, and so remained blind. When she had a true need to, she was able to. I know Lelouch said something like "broke his Geass out of willpower" but Lelouch is only human and he can only say what he thinks happened. He isn't unbeatable, he can underestimate things/people, and he isn't all knowing. Look at his first confrontation with Cornelia or what happened with Charles at the Thought Elevator. Quote:
Unless of course all the people she had Geassed are dead, but considering she was about what, 20, when she got the code and the people she Geassed were about the same age... Even in those days when the lifespan was a lot less, it would have to had taken like 30-40 years for them to all die probably. Thats a long time for them not to notice her not aging... although at the risk of shooting down my own argument if they "loved" her I suppose they would ignore it. I should really go back and look at the episodes dealing with her past closely and see if the people attacking her are the same you see when she has the Geass is loved. Maybe her being attacked doesn't mean anything and doesn't support my theory, but it's not like her being attacked was a key part anyways. I did say from the start that the whole re-enforce thing was a little more of a "straw grasp" then the other. You yourself said that Charles' Geass is different, maybe part of that is that his just naturally lasted longer or didn't have a duration. Maybe Lelouch's also lasts forever, as like I said I thought that it was left unfinished In the end, to be honest I think a lot of my post and points were a bit jumbled and as such suffered for it. This is something I've been thinking on for awhile, and even though at times I said something that could contradict my theory, I had also thought of that and addressed them later in the post. I was trying to keep from jumping around from point to point, so kept on something instead of changing to explaining why it could still work in those situations, and maybe that made it less clear. Plus it is a huge post (again, thinking on for awhile) and those naturally are harder to read and remember things from.
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Last edited by Cynor; 2011-07-02 at 07:34. |
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2011-07-02, 10:05 | Link #7434 | ||||||||
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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2011-07-02, 10:18 | Link #7435 | |
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Just saying my opinion...
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we all know that her geass is about "to be love" but how is that possible? do she needs to look them in the eye or command them, or its long range (like Mao and Rolo's)? at least this was this scene (1:11) is telling me ... 2nd paragraph... she looks 8-10 when she has geass, I think it will be fair to say she's around 15-18 when she got Code... How long does it take to make your geass powerfull, In Lelouch case it only took him what, 2 years??? |
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2011-07-02, 10:27 | Link #7436 | ||
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2nd paragraph.... i dont know for sure.... |
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2011-07-02, 10:44 | Link #7437 | |
Haven't You Heard?
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Location: South-east Asia
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By making contact with it's target. If i recall it correctly, C.C. said there's some people who want to make a religion based on her activity. Isn't it quite implying that C.C. is implanting her needs "to be loved" ? Geass evolved by the number of usage. In S1 he already explained that he had used his Geass many times just to check it's limitation. Same case is applied to C.C. The only difference is, C.C. is needs to be loved ( after spending time being a slave ), when Lelouch uses his Geass as catalyst for a better result. It's quite confusing in R2. In R2, Lelouch's Geass evolved following his emotion. By considering fact, how many person he had geass-ed to make his way to Charles. |
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2011-07-02, 23:19 | Link #7438 |
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From what I remember, a person's Geass manifests in the way that reflects their innermost desires.
C.C.'s deepest desire was to be loved and accepted. Lelouch's is ultimately a manifestation of the ability to control one's environment and others in it.
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2011-07-03, 02:29 | Link #7439 | |||||
SS Bombardment Mage
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A couple are cut off the edge of the screen, but you can still tell they were her marks and not lines from the bricks. So that is 10 lines, and if each line is one day then that is 10 days. If mine is right then that is 5, which is super close to your 6 anyways. As for her drawing a downward line only, C.C. brings our attention to her as she is making a line. From the wide angle showing her (which I can't see any marks in...) it is hard to say exactly which way her hand is working when she is making the mark. Then there is a few seconds of dialogue before going to the upclose shot. It's perfectly plausible to say that she made the horizontal line first, then made the vertical and we only see the latter. Quote:
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Again, she is so used to NOT being able to see and didn't have any reason before to see. That was her life. As I said, if something has changed and you didn't know it had changed, has it really change? Or maybe more accurately, if you think two things are the same, are they really? Couldn't they still be different in reality and you just don't know it because you can't perceive that difference? This isn't a great example, but say you put equal amounts of red food coloring in a glass of water and green in the another. In a color value scale Red and Green are the same value. What that means is if you take a picture in greyscale of those glasses you couldn't tell the red from the green. I actually had to do something similar to that for a school assignment in color theory, so I know it's possible. You may not get it right the first time, but with enough time and tweaking you'll get it exactly right and have a "perfect" picture. The tie in to Nunnally is that given that "perfect" photograph you would think the two have the same color liquid unless you were aware of it before hand. To apply that to her eyesight it's basically how what we think we know is how we perceive reality. She thinks she is blind, so her reality is that she is blind. You think the liquid is the same color in both glasses, so your reality is that both glasses have the same color liquid in them. The actual reality is different. You don't know that as you're looking at a photo of the glasses. She doesn't know that because she doesn't think she can see. Now what if someone you trusted greatly came and told you that they were different? Maybe you can't see it, but you trust the person and believe them. Suddenly your reality has changed, you know they are different. To apply it back to Nunnally... Nunnally could see all along, and she had a need for her reality to change, and so it did. Maybe she thought "if only I could see..." and in desperation she opened her eyes hoping she could... and she could. To be honest though, that whole thing of her suddenly breaking it has always bugged me. Even if she fully broke his Geass all of a sudden she shouldn't be able to see or walk. Her muscles in her legs should be totally shot from not being used for 8 years. (Now I know they don't show her walking, but let me finish) Why shouldn't her eyes be the same way? After seeing black for so long shouldn't they not work that well? Yet she talks about finally looking upon her brother's face as if she had perfect vision again. Think of how well you see first thing in the morning when you wake up. or how the human eye sees in low light and light can ruin that. The same principle should apply to "regaining" eyesight.
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2011-07-03, 11:07 | Link #7440 | ||
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
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It's implying two meanings if we reconsidering R2 title of 25th episode - Re. It could be that's Lelouch flashback that captured by World of C. Or it could be that she's captured -> run away -> captured again. Quote:
He uses that to rewrite Nunnally mind for being blind. The same goes as he rewriting Lelouch mind. See at Lelouch eyes during the 1st episode of R2. Lelouch's Geass is supposed to be permanently activated. But Lelouch eyes is normal until C.C. doing that business kiss After that, Lelouch is able to uses his Geass again without any difficulity. The same principle is worked with Nunnally. She may hadn't seen anything before, but it doesn't mean she'll suffer difficulity to see anymore. Because in her true memory, she is able to see everything clearly. If you're implying she's supposed to try to regaining the sight first, she's already did that. If not, the FLEIJA Detonator wouldn't placed in her hands. Lelouch take a long time before he reach Nunnally, it gave her more than enough time to adapt her eyesight. |
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