(L) Simoun

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by ujiuji

If she did not really intend to kill Aeru, stating that as her intention seems an unwise move!

Actually, I'm pretty sure Mamiina didn't really want to kill Aaeru, now that I really think about it. Warning someone that you're going to kill them as you're struggling to do so isn't the way to accomplish that goal. Instead, I think Mamiina was hoping to hear Aaeru say something like: "Okay, I'll give up on Neviril; just knock it off!" after which she would have stopped trying to strip Aaeru in midair.

[Matrim]

I don't think so, Mamiina just followed the cliche for a villain character, namely - always tell your victims your intentions so they can stop you easily. Seriously, I think it's not uncommon to tell someone you are going to kill him/her just before doing so. Especially when you are driven by a fit of madness like Mamiina. And of course, if she hadn't told Aaeru this the drama of the scene would have been reduced because few viewers would have deduced that ripped clothes would mean a fall and death.

[FatPianoBoy]

But Mamiina isn't a Gundam cliche villian character.
Plus, why would she keep telling Aaeru to give up on Neviril while trying to kill her? If she succeeds, it won't matter what Aaeru's intentions were
She may have been going crazy, but even crazy people have a certain logic to them.

[IchiKyo]

parody time

[yononaka]

parody time

Made me smile

Anyway, I had this thought. If Simoun were licensed, I think there would only be an infinitesimal chance that the US company would dub the men with female voices. How would you feel about that change? I mean it'd probably do away with one of the stumbling blocks in terms of weirding the audience out, but it'd also do away with an element (at least some of) you guys seem to consider important for the show. So, would you be willing to sacrifice that bit of authenticity(?) for the sake of (potentially) more popularity?

Personally, I think it would be a good thing. While I'm a big fan of the Japanese practice of women commonly providing many of the "kinder gentler" type male voices, I thought that taking to the extremes of Simoun came off much too gimmicky. And before anyone brings in something like men playing women in Shakespeare's times , I think that's different because if women played Simoun's men in live action, there would inevitably be some additional feminineness to the physical characteristics that would make the half-feminine voices feel more appropriate. Whereas in anime form you just see a man but hear a woman, and the disconnect is therefore bigger. (I'm talking about the men who looked like men, not those who still had boobs )

Also, during the forecasting before the characters chose their gender, did anyone consider that at least some of the picks were going to be made based on which seiyuu could more convincingly pull off a masculine voice? (I'm not a seiyuu expert, so maybe I'm off base here.) It seemed to me that a number of people were surprised by some of the choices, so might this explain them better? I don't remember if this was ever discussed.

P.S. atosaki: I wasn't disturbed, I just don't like to have my actions mischaracterized.

[JiCi]

I guess it wouldn't hurt... as long as they do not do so for Waporif. Since the whole changing process is gradual, it would logical to keep the girl's voice at first, progressively change to a deeper voice and at the end put a normal male voice.

Speaking of English dub, I'm curious about the characters' names translations. How would it be ?

[Matrim]

Plus, why would she keep telling Aaeru to give up on Neviril while trying to kill her? If she succeeds, it won't matter what Aaeru's intentions were

Because Mamiina subconsciously knew Aaeru wouldn't die so easily by virtue of being a main character. She told Aaeru to give up but I doubt she expected her to do so, actually she started trying to rip her clothes even before telling her the reason. And certainly, even gripped by madness Mamiina was bound to realise that even if Aaeru had promised such a thing under the threat of death, it wouldn't mean a thing once she let her go.

Anyway, I had this thought. If Simoun were licensed, I think there would only be an infinitesimal chance that the US company would dub the men with female voices. How would you feel about that change?

I couldn't care less really, no way I am going to watch Simoun dubbed, it has an absolutely stellar seiyuu cast whose work will probably be butchered by the dub, plus I am so used to the Japanese voices by now. I have very little experience with English dubs but it seems obvious that female voice actors should be a lot less used to voicing male characters than their japanese counterparts so it might be better to leave this to some male talent. That said, most men in Simoun do look quite feminine, some funny disprepancies between the voice and the appearance seem inevitable.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Matrim

I couldn't care less really, no way I am going to watch Simoun dubbed, it has an absolutely stellar seiyuu cast whose work will probably be butchered by the dub, plus I am so used to the Japanese voices by now.

Indeed; not to mention the little nuances of male and female conjugations and speech idiosyncracies (ore-onna, for example) that just plain don't translate into English. That adds a lot to the characters and the show as a whole.
Even if the English cast pulls off another Cowboy Bebop and they're all female, they won't be able to reproduce this part.

[yononaka]

Based on what you two (Matrim and FatPianoBoy) are saying, it seems like the chances of the dub audience (i.e. the mainstream majority) being able to fully appreciate the show are remote even if they wanted to?

My question wasn't about whether you would listen to the dub because most of the AS clientele probably wouldn't. Regular people obviously would, though. So if you want Simoun to gain a more sizable audience, IMO not caring about how the dub is done isn't really an option (more so than with your average show, I'd say).

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by yononaka

Based on what you two (Matrim and FatPianoBoy) are saying, it seems like the chances of the dub audience (i.e. the mainstream majority) being able to fully appreciate the show are remote even if they wanted to?

My question wasn't about whether you would listen to the dub because most of the AS clientele probably wouldn't. Regular people obviously would, though. So if you want Simoun to gain a more sizable audience, IMO not caring about how the dub is done isn't really an option (more so than with your average show, I'd say).

Well, what I was saying about with masculine and feminine speech would be lost even on people watching the sub unless they understood Japanese on a deeper level than the typical 'sugoi, oishii, baka' knowledge of most anime fans, so it doesn't really apply to the mainstream demographic. I was completely missing your point and just commenting on whether I would enjoy the dub

Of course I'd like for the dub to be well done. There are some things that I watch dubbed simply because the dub is so good (Evangelion, GITS, R.O.D), so I don't hate dubs by any means. I'd rather they keep an all-female cast, since that fact would at least give the show notoriety ("Hey, have you seen Simoun?" "Oh, isn't that that one show where all the guys have girls' voices?"), because at this point it doesn't seem that many people even know it exists.

[Kaoru Chujo]

The idea of dubbing Simoun makes me run screaming from the room. But dubs in general really turn me off, so this isn't that much worse than normal. Sure, a lot would be lost, but that's true of any almost any anime. I think there's so much there that even a somewhat impaired Simoun would be good.

EDIT: I just blocked out the idea of using male voices entirely. No, no, a thousand times no! But Simoun would still be good if they did, as long as they didn't make them too deep. I'm not sure if dubbed anime use female voices for males now or not. If they do, there's no reason they can't for Simoun, too.

[fignae]

Originally Posted by yononaka

Anyway, I had this thought. If Simoun were licensed, I think there would only be an infinitesimal chance that the US company would dub the men with female voices. How would you feel about that change?

Can't respond to that dispassionately. Simoun showed me seiyuu I'd never really listened to before, and I ended the episode journey feeling attached to every single voice in there. I loved those reactions surrounding the show when it begun, loved how it challenged conventional fanboy notions of the division between male and female (the energy is like the usual female seiyuu voicing male character, reversed, that is, the "Trap-chan" effect), and it's such a crucial part of the show for me I--

Right. Would it garner more eyeballs? We'd need to hear from those who were uncomfortable with the voicing choices. Anyway, something I wasn't expecting to see and nearly skipped over yesterday:



Animedia, Niino Michi (Aaeru)

Editing to add: I call it "daring", not "gimmicky"; and think this "disconnect" is the whole point.

[kauldron26]

looking at how many posts are in this thread, i was thinking of jumping on this series... are the fansubs complete?? because i dont want to get into it, and then torture myself waiting for weeks for completion.

Is the anime really that good, to warrant over 2000 posts to a relatively new show?
i hope so.

[jedinat]

Originally Posted by kauldron26

looking at how many posts are in this thread, i was thinking of jumping on this series... are the fansubs complete?? because i dont want to get into it, and then torture myself waiting for weeks for completion.

Is the anime really that good, to warrant over 2000 posts to a relatively new show?
i hope so.

I've been watching it over the past few days and it's pretty good. The fansubs are done... but some of the later episodes are taking forever to download.

[FatPianoBoy]

Don't take our word or the post count as proof of this show. Just watch it and judge for yourself. It seems that just about everyone's mileage varies when they watch this show, since it requires a very personal connection to really enjoy. Best when marathoned.

1-16 are hardsubbed by Simoun-fans. The rest (17-26) you have to download the raw file (they're all on isohunt) and a temporary softsub file to watch, which isn't as much of a hassle as it sounds.

[Xellos-_^]

My main problem with this series is the lack of a cohearent story. i stop watching half way but keep up with wrex's blog but i still havn't figure out what the story was about or the entire war for that matter. I love the music, the yuri was a plus, the pretty pictures were good as ere the characters but the lack of a real storyline and background on the setting kill this anime for me.

[yononaka]

Originally Posted by kauldron26

Is the anime really that good, to warrant over 2000 posts to a relatively new show?

As far as the post count in particular is concerned, this and this may put it in perspective. (Since I took time to work the numbers, may as well pimp it again I'm not talking about the series comparison, just the "top heaviness" thing).

As FPB said, just about everyone's mileage varies. Mine varies a lot, which is why everyone in this thread loves me But those who love Simoun, really love it, so you can hope that you'll fall on that side.

Edit:

Originally Posted by fignae

Right. Would it garner more eyeballs? We'd need to hear from those who were uncomfortable with the voicing choices.

It may or may not actually do it, but I'd expect marketing people to consider dubbing all men with women's voices a liability for the US market. (Unless Simoun were positioned as a niche product from the get-go.)

[jedinat]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

The rest (17-26) you have to download the raw file (they're all on isohunt) and a temporary softsub file to watch, which isn't as much of a hassle as it sounds.

There are files on isohunt with the subs... though there may be better seeders for the raws, it took a few days for me to dl them.

[IchiKyo]

Originally Posted by JiCi

I guess it wouldn't hurt... as long as they do not do so for Waporif. Since the whole changing process is gradual, it would logical to keep the girl's voice at first, progressively change to a deeper voice and at the end put a normal male voice.

Speaking of English dub, I'm curious about the characters' names translations. How would it be ?

Please do not talk about Name Written^^;
One of my Friend who help to sub French Team for Simoun gave Aaeru to Aael... And Rii-Maajon Became Remergion... I feel fear for Romanji translation Written...

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

My main problem with this series is the lack of a cohearent story. i stop watching half way but keep up with wrex's blog but i still havn't figure out what the story was about or the entire war for that matter. I love the music, the yuri was a plus, the pretty pictures were good as were the characters but the lack of a real storyline and background on the setting kill this anime for me.

The Wikipedia entry has complete details of background, characters and story.

The story of the war is not laid out as directly as in many anime, but it is actually pretty straightforward.

Spoiler for story of the war:

At first, we have a home country with a monopoly on an advanced aircraft (the "simoun") and the "helical motor" technology that powers it. The simoun not only flies extremely well, but can be used as an energy weapon. This makes the home country infinitely more powerful than other nations. The technology is high ancient technology that no one knows how to make now.

One other nation in particular wants this clean, efficient technology so that it doesn't have to keep polluting itself with dirty technology. It makes thousands of its own flying machines and attacks.

Then another nation is able to destroy a large number of the home country's simouns by trickery, and also finds some of its own.

Gradually it becomes clear that the home country can't win, fighting against an alliance of these two nations, and it signs a peace treaty.

But Simoun is not really about the war. It is about the reactions to it of the priestess/pilots (the "sibyllas") who are the main characters, and the relations among them. The Wikipedia entry tells everything in full.

As for how to transliterate the names, I have my own preferences, but it doesn't really matter as long as they're consistent.