2010-08-03, 11:14 | Link #3841 | |
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Things were going well, and I don't think Kinzo had many warm fuzzy feelings for the elders who forced him to take the title of the head and into a political marriage, so he decides to build the head mansion on Rokkenjima as well, and moves the residence of the family head to the island as well. But as the mansion is being built, the orginal Beatrice dies by Reason X, and Kinzo falls into despair. So it looks like Genji might've been telling the truth afterall. As an afterthought, considering the timeline, could it be possible that there was a child between Kinzo and this Beatrice, which grew up to be Rosa's Beatrice? The first Beatrice could've died giving birth to her daughter. Looking at the timeline, and placing Rosa's Beatrice at around Battler's age, it could work. |
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2010-08-03, 11:29 | Link #3842 |
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If Genji is saying Beatrice died before the mansion was built, he can't be referring to Beatrice-2. In fact, we know for certain he's aware of Beatrice-2 (Kawabata let that out of the bag in ep4 by implication), so he would probably never bring up what happened to her to the family at large. So the person he's talking about is Beatrice-1, if there ever was such a person.
But why wouldn't there be? Kuwadorian had to be built by someone. It's possible that Kinzo did it, but what if he didn't? What if it was Beatrice-1's house, whoever she/he/it might have been, and he bought the island for that reason?
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2010-08-03, 11:40 | Link #3843 |
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I'm not sure how to shape it into a theory, but I believe the relation between orriginal Kinzo and Beatrice likely reflects that of Battler with Beato.
Beato-1's death likely is something akin to her arc 5's death. Tho something weird is how current Beato never seems to claim in any ways that she's Beato 1, however she often implies being Beato 2. |
2010-08-03, 11:44 | Link #3844 |
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It's also interesting to note that the Beatrice of EP2 is acting in the role of Beatrice-1
This can be deduced by the fact she says she hasn't met Kinzo since about 30 years. About 30 years before supposedly Beatrice-1 died, and about 30 years before Kinzo moved to Rokkenjima with all of his family. There is probably some kind of connection between Beatrice-1's death and Kinzo's decision to move to Rokkenjima. The easiest explanation is that for some reasons Beatrice-1 couldn't move away from Rokkenjima and she died giving birth to Beatrice-2. At that point Kinzo had some kind of obligation to take care of Beatrice-2 but the same reasons that bound Beatrice-1 to that island also bound Beatrice-2 It is however extremely hard to imagine what kind of reasons are those, unless there's another "queen carrier" stuff... naaaa...
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2010-08-03, 11:51 | Link #3846 |
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Well about getting Rokkenjima...
Battler was entrusted Beato's gameboard... Is it possible to relate that in a way that Rokkenjima is Beato1's gameboard in a general sense. Said Beatrice died, all that was left of her, entrusted to Kinzo, was the gameboard.... Rokkenjima? Actually that's probably the best way to see it. Rokkenjima is important because Beatrice cannot exists outside of it. It's not that she'd die or anything, but if she left it, wouldn't be Beatrice anymore. I can't find a good example for Beato 1, but if you think about Beato 2 it seems to work well enough. Suppose Rosa would've brought back Beato 2 from Kuwadorian to the mansion, then soon after she'd have likely left the island, learn some truth about herself, and would stop existing as Beatrice. At the very least, the golden witch aspect of her wouldn't exist at all anymore. |
2010-08-03, 11:59 | Link #3847 |
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But that Beatrice didn't even want to be a witch. In that case you'd have to think that Kinzo is a bastard and all the servants are accomplices in a crime.
I want to think that Kinzo had a very good reason for that.
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2010-08-03, 12:14 | Link #3848 |
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Crime of keeping Beato 2 in Kuwadorian? Sadly by this point it seems we have no choice but to accept Beato 2 was a captive, and that many servants knew about it.
There's various ways one can convince themselves the "bad" they do is still not really bad. Suppose Beato 2 was an orphan, in the late 40ies in Japan, she would've likely died on her own. Kinzo adopts and raise her, however keeps her captive. He could reason out that even tho he does that to her, her fate would've been horrible (or simply death) otherwise. We can guess from her innocence that she wasn't abused. On the contrary, it seems like Kinzo gave her constantly high class gifts. Feels like they're all things done to "balance" the evil he's doing by keeping her captive. If you say the idea of balancing is too far fetched, well that's exactly what winged servants are. In ep 2 they sorta explain how servants are basically abused (especially by Natsuhi lol...) and live an extremly harsh life that most of them can't bear for long. They even have to give up their real name while being on Rokkenjima. However they're paid very very well and it gives them a good start financially and also a good work experience. From Kinzo's view he is doing them a favor. From many of the adopted children he's possibly doing them a favor. However from our external view, can you really accept the treatment they have to go through in the family? (just thinking about the idea of harshly punishing servants.... that's not what you normally do, you just fire an incompetant servant... the idea that Natsuhi deprived food from Shannon as in arc 2 is example enough I believe). Going to add to that, Natsuhi was to Kinzo a "trophy wife" for his son. At least orriginally. We thus know it's a possible view he has on some women. Edit : Beside being kept captive actually, everything else points out that Beato 2 was better treated by Kinzo then he ever treated any of his children. |
2010-08-03, 12:26 | Link #3849 | ||
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Kinzo was in the boiler room. The room had an unlocked first-floor door (though the adults might not realize that) and no window. He had the chapel key but no master key. Kanon was in the chapel. The other victims were on the second or higher floors. They're unlikely to search the chapel first; it's a good walk away. They'll probably go through the sealed rooms in the mansion first. Kanon will very likely be the last victim found. The adults will probably start with a first-floor room (parlor or boiler room). If they realize that the boiler room has another door and start there, the chapel key will be useless for exploring the mansion, and they'll probably break into the parlor next. If they don't realize that, they'll probably start with the parlor. Shannon will probably be the first (possibly second) victim found, and Kanon will probably be the last. (Also, Shannon's body is mentioned as being hidden behind a couch; Hideyoshi is the only one who sees her body in Episodes 1 and 3.) She'll have plenty of time to move from the parlor to the chapel. Quote:
When were Kumasawa and Nanjo killed? While they officially were killed around 1 PM, their death isn't confirmed until around 7. When Genji knocked to say he'd found Nanjo & Kumasawa's bodies, he woke the people inside up. Rosa had sleeping pills, and I'm pretty sure she made Battler's food while he was playing with Maria. In short, Rosa is lacking an alibi all across the board.
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2010-08-03, 12:46 | Link #3850 | |
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Was Beatrice-2 a prisoner? That's really a matter of perspective. She wasn't kept under guard, else Rosa would have been unable to make contact with her. She was fenced in, but in a certain sense the island was quite dangerous; it's treacherous terrain, this is well-established and part of the reason Kuwadorian is so hard to find.
Did she leave? Apparently not, given her level of ignorance. Could she leave? Kinzo may not have wanted her to, but past a certain point it's possible he had no way to stop her short of forcing her to stay. But we don't know for certain that he did. That's not to say Beatrice-2 ever did leave. But we can't be certain it's because she was never supposed to be allowed to. Quote:
Changing outfits and reapplying fake blood or whatever both times. Never being seen. Or caught. And nobody investigates either Shannon or Kanon close enough to tell they're "both" still alive. Mmmhmm.
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2010-08-03, 13:40 | Link #3853 | ||
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Yeah the whole changing room scenario does feel far fetched, however if they had investigated any of the first twilight victims well enough in arc 3, they wouldn't have thought this was all "possibly a prank from Kinzo". |
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2010-08-03, 13:47 | Link #3854 | |
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I think the order of Beatrice's goes like this: Oliver's Storm-Beatrice (since I like how it explains the gold), Kinzo's Lover-Beatrice, who gave birth to Rosa's Beatrice, who died thanks to a fall. Kumasawa, who was watching over Rosa's Beatrice, was viewed as a mentor by her, and so Beatrice viewed her as a witch, creating Virgillia-Beatrice. Virgillia-Beatrice went on to be a mother/mentor to Battler's Beato (who is all but confirmed to be Shannon), succeeding the name of Beatrice to her. And all of them in some way wrap up to become the Meta-Beato we know and love, or hate.
There are way too many women with the same name in this series. Quote:
Wait... so Shkanontrice is a zombie? |
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2010-08-03, 14:38 | Link #3858 | |
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Also, you try to make it sound ridiculous that Shannon could have gone from the parlor to the chapel without being found, but that wouldn't even have been hard. After all, it would have taken the rest of the group quite some time to go to the 4 rooms between the parlor and the chapel, and all of those rooms were inside the mansion itself. Meanwhile, the parlor now has a broken window that anyone can leave through. She just needs to walk out of that, head for the chapel (it's dark outside, so she probably doesn't even need to sneak around), and dress up as Kanon in the 10-20 minutes it takes the others to search through the other closed rooms. In fact, that might be why this long chain of closed rooms was set up in the first place. Also, if Shannon is the culprit, then both EP1 and EP2 hint that she has a fake corpse somewhere (and she has the fake breasts and hair ready if Shkanon is true). Once the initial inspection of the corpses was completed, she could switch out with this other corpse. The family knows not to disturb the crime scene, so they aren't likely to check it too closely. By the way, as I've noted before, it's very possible that nearly every single person who saw those fake corpses realized that they were fake. Just look at their reactions later on.
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2010-08-03, 14:53 | Link #3859 | |
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The fake corpse is... possible if you linger yourself around the red but otherwise it might be possible. BUt transporting fake corpses in the rain...or you are implying they were already there before the rain started...during the day of the still normal the family conference.
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2010-08-03, 15:07 | Link #3860 | ||
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Well, even if Kanon's clothes were wet, no one would have found that particularly surprising. He would have had to walk (or be carried) from the mansion to the chapel at some point, and if an umbrella couldn't protect Shannon from the rain, it couldn't have protected Kanon either. So it's possible that she hid Shannon's clothes somewhere outside the chapel and walked there as Kanon. Quote:
Oh, and also, Shannon has plenty of time to dry off the corpse and give it dry clothes, so the rain isn't really a problem.
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