Code Geass R2 - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Zetsubou Bunny

Funniest line of the day.

and least accurate
unless i somehow misunderstood the phrase "i will spill many more rivers of blood, enough to wash away the memory of the MASSACRE PRINCESS from history"

[Cephei Mordred]

Yes, it is possible that I misunderstood.

However, do we hear of him having killed anyone that wasn't directly opposing him? Perhaps there was word and I somehow missed it.

On the other hand, Schneizel was out to kill billions in order to save...billions?

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Cephei Mordred

Yes, it is possible that I misunderstood.

However, do we hear of him having killed anyone that wasn't directly opposing him? Perhaps there was word and I somehow missed it.

On the other hand, Schneizel was out to kill billions in order to save...billions?

directly opposing him ?
if someone so much as spoke out against him he would murder their entire family
so yes

and Schneizel was not "out to kill billions"
he was out to make everyone fear the damocles so it would act as a deterrent against all future conflict
he didn't say "lets kill billions"
he said "even if a billion people died, the result would be world peace"
which is not better then Lelouch's version, but not really worse either

both Lelouch AND Schneizel were monsters by the end
both were following the exact same mindframe
utopid justifies the means, and no amount of bloodshad is too high

Lelouch was simply the protagonist

[Cephei Mordred]

We all make mistakes. In regard to my misunderstanding the situation, that is.

[azul120]

Well, that and Lelouch was no longer in his right mind when he enacted Zero Requiem. He was consumed by a death wish, and chose a Genghis Gambit as his excuse.

Schneizel was just being Schneizel, if only a lot more like Dr. Evil by now.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Cephei Mordred

Yes, it is possible that I misunderstood.

However, do we hear of him having killed anyone that wasn't directly opposing him? Perhaps there was word and I somehow missed it.

On the other hand, Schneizel was out to kill billions in order to save...billions?

All we know about Zero Requiem is that Lelouch set out to be more hated than Charles and he suceeded. Considering the massive death toll Charles achieved than Lelouch would have to be better than that or at least around that.

While Lelouch's plan was slightly better than Schneizel both of them where completely out of their minds.

Frankly it's easy to make mistakes about Code Geass simply because things are never really properly explained. For example, in the series itself Charles is basically shown as having absolute rule, and it looks like the Magna Carta was never made, but apparently in the supplementary material people other than Charles do have power they are just never shown.

Another example is how the UFN is portrayed with pretty much only the Chinese and Japanese shown given the appearance that the Chinese and Japanese have all the power.

[Nogitsune]

I agree that Lelouch wasn't the epitome of sanity when he came up with Zero Requiem; however, the staff did not portray his plan as insane. In fact, ZR is portrayed in a very positive light.

No, it would not have worked in real life, and people can hate it all they want, but what the actual series shows us is that Lelouch's (and Suzaku's) wish became reality, and nowhere is it stated (or even hinted) that Lelouch was a raving lunatic by the end.
If that had been the staff's intent, they'd have gone for a more un-sugary ending, and Okouchi's interviews would have been a bit less "he was a modern hero!" and a bit more "he kinda lost it there".

[Cephei Mordred]

Another thing I found confusing...did Lelouch geass Jeremiah during the "Obey Me World" scene? It showed him right away hailing Lelouch, but 1. Wasn't he already worshipping Lelouch before that point, and 2. Can he even be Geassed?

[Rising Dragon]

... no, he wasn't Geass'd. Geassing him was impossible in that situation; not only does Lelouch need to make eye contact, but it has to be within a certain range (270 meters, if I'm not mistaken). Furthermore, Jeremiah would automatically dispel the Geass using his Geass Canceler.

Orange-kun was just being Orange-kun and saluting his lord for his victory, in response to Lelouch's speech.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Cephei Mordred

Another thing I found confusing...did Lelouch geass Jeremiah during the "Obey Me World" scene? It showed him right away hailing Lelouch, but 1. Wasn't he already worshipping Lelouch before that point, and 2. Can he even be Geassed?

Uh, why should Lelouch geass Jeremiah? o.o
And how should he have made eye contact when Jeremiah was still out there on the battlefield?
So... no, he didn't. It wouldn't make sense, and was never shown anywhere.

Edit: Ah, too slow. xD

[Cephei Mordred]

I know it didn't make sense, that is why I asked, because the scene seemed questionable.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I agree that Lelouch wasn't the epitome of sanity when he came up with Zero Requiem; however, the staff did not portray his plan as insane. In fact, ZR is portrayed in a very positive light.

No, it would not have worked in real life, and people can hate it all they want, but what the actual series shows us is that Lelouch's (and Suzaku's) wish became reality, and nowhere is it stated (or even hinted) that Lelouch was a raving lunatic by the end.
If that had been the staff's intent, they'd have gone for a more un-sugary ending, and Okouchi's interviews would have been a bit less "he was a modern hero!" and a bit more "he kinda lost it there".

Did Okouchi actually call Lelouch a modern hero?

Or is it like with Fukuda where people blame him for things, and no one can reveal where he said it. I know Okouchi has been positive about Lelouch but I don't remember him ever using something like "modern hero"

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Originally Posted by Cephei Mordred

I know it didn't make sense, that is why I asked, because the scene seemed questionable.

That scene is extremely questionable. Because he apparently somehow managed to make direct eye contact with an entire hall full of people simultaneously.

[Nogitsune]

I don't think it was ever said that Lelouch had to focus on the person he wants to use his Geass on. It's just that he can't have anything between them and his eye(s).

Originally Posted by Arbitres

I kinda miss Clovis, him groveling for life would've been the perfect thing for R2 ^_^;

Clovis! *-*
Hum, I don't think the groveling thing would have worked out so well if Clovis had stayed around for a bit longer, because until Lelouch revealed his identity to him, he was pretty damn calm, going so far as to make fun of the person holding a gun to his head.
The guy is obsessed, so if anything, we'd have gotten some awesome brotherly love!

[Rising Dragon]

Lelouch's Geass is light-based, and apparently only needs for people to be looking at his eyes for it to affect them, so long as its within 270 meters. And since everyone in that hall was looking at his face, it was easy enough for the Imperial Court to become his willing slaves.

[Cephei Mordred]

Something I am also slightly concerned about.

Maybe it's different in the original japanese, but Lloyd tells Nina plainly that he is a sociopath.

Other than being a little too For Science about things, shouldn't he be a little more questionable about his actions? Sociopathy, in its common parliance, implies something more along the lines of Bradley, though some would say that Bradley is a psychopath, rather than a sociopath.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Cephei Mordred

Something I am also slightly concerned about.

Maybe it's different in the original japanese, but Lloyd tells Nina plainly that he is a sociopath.

He does? Where?
I don't think he says that in the Japanese version, although I only read the English subs.

Other than being a little too For Science about things, shouldn't he be a little more questionable about his actions? Sociopathy, in its common parliance, implies something more along the lines of Bradley, though some would say that Bradley is a psychopath, rather than a sociopath.

Yep, would go for the sociopath in this case. But I'm not an expert on this matter, so...
Don't psychopaths tend to be pretty "organized", though? Don't really think that's the case here, except that he follows orders. He isn't very subtle or manipulative, though.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Cephei Mordred

Something I am also slightly concerned about.

Maybe it's different in the original japanese, but Lloyd tells Nina plainly that he is a sociopath.

Other than being a little too For Science about things, shouldn't he be a little more questionable about his actions? Sociopathy, in its common parliance, implies something more along the lines of Bradley, though some would say that Bradley is a psychopath, rather than a sociopath.

sociopaths don't recognize the suffering of others because they don't view them as people
Bradley on the other hand, takes overwhelming PLEASURE at the suffering of others, be they friend or foe
hence, Bradley is a psychopath

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

sociopaths don't recognize the suffering of others because they don't view them as people
Bradley on the other hand, takes overwhelming PLEASURE at the suffering of others, be they friend or foe
hence, Bradley is a psychopath

Really?
I never heard that.

Do you have a source on this? I'm really interested.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

If you want a more scientific approach about Psychotic and sociapathic behavior, then you should follow these link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath

It explains quite in good detail, even if it's wikipedia. Also, this will help you atleast someone to identify the behavior. So I hope it helps in more ways then one.

Imagine that, Lelouch was a psychopath.... Along with Luciano, Mao, etc etc....

Thanks for the link!
It doesn't help all that much with the sociopath vs. psychopath issue, but other than that, it indeed looks very interesting so far.

But how is Lelouch a psychopath?
The main issue with a psychopath is that he lacks empathy, and that's not really Lelouch's problem. If I had to pick a disorder that sums up most of Lelouch's issues, it would be this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex...tress_disorder
It even has the revenge thing! The cause (lack of control) fits, as well.

Not that that proves anything, but I just stumbled upon this one day and stared.