Uhm I think the almighty label to label Saegusa more common, this does not mean that every individual is more powerful to them do not have an absolute weakness.
Miyuki said was Magicians Universal type, which is excellent in all respects 'General'. For example, there are 10 subjects received at least the minimum value Miyuki 8 in each subject, while others although scored 10 in 1 subjects but they also scored 7 in the other subjects
can someone tell me what is being discussed by the chibi characters in the previews ?
Are they explaining magics ? please tell me they won't actually be included in the actual anime(each video takes 3 minutes, and if there is more my hope of reaching the 7th volume will be gone).
can someone tell me what is being discussed by the chibi characters in the previews ?
Are they explaining magics ? please tell me they won't actually be included in the actual anime(each video takes 3 minutes, and if there is more my hope of reaching the 7th volume will be gone).
They're explaining magic. Particularly CADs and a bit of the world setting. Of course not. We're getting 26 episodes, by the way.
Well he doesnt want things to go sex route....but living together is ok?(which i find stupid); and vague answer of them loving each other.
Just common sense, he doesn't want his book banned in the biggest domestic market for violating the Tokyo Metropolitan Ordinance Regarding the Healthy Development of Youths. It also has not stopped other books from going the incest route as long as they don't explicitly have sex on the page.
I just wanted to say something regarding this discussion on Tatsuya being a Gary Sue and being talented to unrealistic levels.
Most people think that when someone is so much better than everyone else it's unrealistic, but the truth is that it's the opposite if he is the only exception. If you look around you in real life you'll see that anyone has someone somewhere that is on their level in what they excel at. But we're just ordinary people. Isn't it reasonable for the most talented human to ever be born to be on a completely different level than any of his peers ? If you think of Tatsuya as such or any OP protagonist, it would make sense.
Not that I want to start a shipping war again but once Tasuya's feelings were known, I just couldn't imagine a Miyuki ending, he can't see her as a woman, she is just a sister to him. It is almost impossible to make a believable ending with these 2 becoming a couple.
Meaning that...my dream of Yandere Miyuki might come true .
it will be great
Tatsuya and Erika married, and Miyuki go mad and stabbing both of them on their wedding party but wtf no one die
- -
need more Mayumi teasing, but she teasing Jumonji look like an impossible task
I just wanted to say something regarding this discussion on Tatsuya being a Gary Sue and being talented to unrealistic levels.
Most people think that when someone is so much better than everyone else it's unrealistic, but the truth is that it's the opposite if he is the only exception. If you look around you in real life you'll see that anyone has someone somewhere that is on their level in what they excel at. But we're just ordinary people. Isn't it reasonable for the most talented human to ever be born to be on a completely different level than any of his peers ? If you think of Tatsuya as such or any OP protagonist, it would make sense.
That's a really good point. It's just something that depends on perspective. To some people judging his character through literary conception he can be be succesfully argued as a Gary Stu, but to the judgement of a solitary reader he can just be a neat character who's abilities make sense for him to have in his universe.
It's kind of like The Doctor from Doctor Who. He's literally the smartest and most clever in the universe capable of almost anything due to his sheer wit. Looking at him in context of a literary device he can be argued as being Gary Stu-ish, but if you look at him him the context of the story you understand it makes for him to be that way in his own story universe.
It's not that you have to conform to the idea of him being a Gary Stu, it's just that you have to acknowledge why other people might chose to see him that way, and why their opinion would be perfectly valid. It's all perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NutShell
it will be great
Tatsuya and Erika married, and Miyuki go mad and stabbing both of them on their wedding party but wtf no one die
- -
need more Mayumi teasing, but she teasing Jumonji look like an impossible task
That Yandere ending. Everyone secretly wants it. Screw happiness.
I ship Mayumi with a little Ayaka Boat personally. Just because I like Mayumi, not much more of a deep reason than that.
I really only ship Miyuki by way of not wanting to see her with anyone else. I wouldn't be mad if Tatsuya ended up with someone else as much as I would be real mad if Miyuki ended up with Masaki.
Not that I want to start a shipping war again but once Tasuya's feelings were known, I just couldn't imagine a Miyuki ending, he can't see her as a woman, she is just a sister to him. It is almost impossible to make a believable ending with these 2 becoming a couple.
Meaning that...my dream of Yandere Miyuki might come true .
Funny. I can't imagine this as ending in anything other than a Miyuki End. And you could say the same thing about all the other girls: he can only see them as friends or acquaintances. Nothing more.
That said, I'm also REALLY praying for a "Tatsuya pissing Miyuki off in disguise" scene.
Well, there goes one of my biggest concerns about the anime. Hanakana seems to be doing a great job with Mayumi's voice, keeping it pretty calm throughout, even when getting upset, while using a softer (less squeaky) version of her regular sweet voice. Katsuto sounds like a badass, so everything is good. And good to see they're explaining the war, it is quite the important detail after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pampz21
Edit:Q & A with the author and illustrator.
What made me lol was Ishida Kana's comment about making Miyuki more beautiful and a certain high spirited girl pose.
MORE beautiful!? No, NO! No more worshipping! I'm serious, NO!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pampz21
So the author doesnt want to go incest route too;
Well, this is interesting. I wonder how could it go then.
I second Lucarion's question, the exact wording is important here.
MORE beautiful!? No, NO! No more worshipping! I'm serious, NO!
We need a correct translation but the way I understood it, Ishida wanted a new design for her since she noticed she is not that beautiful compared to how she is described in the LN.
We need a correct translation but the way I understood it, Ishida wanted a new design for her since she noticed she is not that beautiful compared to how she is described in the LN.
Well, duh! The LNs couldn't set the bar any higher. I mean, how do you make a design so good even women question their sexuality when she is in a swimsuit?
I really only ship Miyuki by way of not wanting to see her with anyone else. I wouldn't be mad if Tatsuya ended up with someone else as much as I would be real mad if Miyuki ended up with Masaki.
For me that's one of the bad Miyuki's side. She strongly depends on her brother that you just can't ship her with anyone else. However Masaki is not a bad guy
No matter what, I hope it wiil not end with incest
We need a correct translation but the way I understood it, Ishida wanted a new design for her since she noticed she is not that beautiful compared to how she is described in the LN.
Be Cautios with your words about Translators Sama and Staff, they all do willingly and despite RL issues, I don't mind your endless shipping and about CADs warz, but don't mess with them, many, many, readers appreciate their worck and the others LNs projects has been stalled or abandoned cuz uncare fools its true, if don't like translation or stile just do yourself. At least mind the used words and meaning to everyone else.
Well, duh! The LNs couldn't set the bar any higher. I mean, how do you make a design so good even women question their sexuality when she is in a swimsuit?
Maybe that's why most of the girls look average, besides Mayumi(the prettiest IMO) and Erika they don't stand out. At least her design is way better than Lina's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartaen
For me that's one of the bad Miyuki's side. She strongly depends on her brother that you just can't ship her with anyone else. However Masaki is not a bad guy
No matter what, I hope it wiil not end with incest
Fumiya X Miyuki the couple of Tasuya worshipers, and she finds him cute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimurry
Be Cautios with your words about Translators Sama and Staff, they all do willingly and despite RL issues, I don't mind your endless shipping and about CADs warz, but don't mess with them, many, many, readers appreciate their worck and the others LNs projects has been stalled or abandoned cuz uncare fools its true, if don't like translation or stile just do yourself. At least mind the used words and meaning to everyone else.
I am not talking about the LN translators, I believe everyone here used Google Translate.
Maybe that's why most of the girls look average, besides Mayumi(the prettiest IMO) and Erikathey don't stand out. At least her design is way better than Lina's.
Pampz summoning program: ultimate edition.
And of course Mayumi is the prettiest.
Hmm, I wouldn't say they look average, it's just that we often imagine them in the same outfit (school uniform) while Miyuki gets entire sections of her in different clothing. The rest just doesn't have as many chances to show off.
This is what I mean exactly, in 2092 CADs were not as good as in 2095. We assisted to the birth of Taurus Silver in volume 8. Tatsuya was already working on CADs but his encounter with Sanada really helped him, then he published his findings, CADs became ultra fast and he created the Loop Cast System. Miyuki is awesome but she is not better at everything in all the areas of magic, only at ice magic and magics with AOE.
Taurus silver only advanced the casting times of Specialized CADs. Miyuki uses a generalized one. So I didn't understand why you were saying that there's a huge difference between the CADs then and the CADs now(3 years), when we're talking about Miyukis activation speed. I presume that you just didn't know that.
Sigh, I don't really feel like browsing through the novel for quotes but since you're being so stubborn here's an excerpt about Miyuki: "Although she couldn't draw data directly from the dimension of information like Tatsuya, it was possible to perceive the traces of event modification left by magic. This was something any magician could do at varying levels, and anything a magician could do Miyuki could do at the highest level."
And there really are so many others in the same vein. You could probably find some line praising Miyukis outstanding talent in every volume if you wanted to. You simply have an incorrect understanding if you think Miyuki is exceptional in only Wide area magic and Ice magic, in terms of raw magical talent, she is probably the greatest in the series (I feel like I've said this already). The fact that her emotions can actually affect her surroundings is proof of this. You'll have to look this one up yourself, but it's mentioned that, that's a sign of an exceptional talent in magic (or something similar).
Quote:
I am not talking about Lina with Brionac, Lina without Brionac rivalsMiyuki, if you say yourself that we can confirm nothing don't say Miyuki would win 10 times out of 10.
No, we can't. But Miyuki won the fight in quite a dominant fashion. And I didn't find nearly enough indication that Lina would do better in a rematch to justify saying that she'd be favored. In any case saying Lina wouldn't lose 10 times out of 10 is a much more reasonable claim than saying that Miyuki isn't an elite among elites.
Quote:
Huh, no.
Sigh.
Quote:
Your understanding of a subject is subjective , not everybody has the same comprehension, it’s like that IRL. If age is so relevant then can we agree that Mayumi and Mari are stronger than Miyuki, who is 16? No, we can’t because you are just contradicting yourself.
Miyuki trumps the freshmen because she trained more than them at all areas, not because she is more talented than them in all areas, the Saegusa twins are talented, Shippou is talented, Miyuki’s ice magic is the best in the world and AOE spells are her speciality. You are mixing up the definition of talent and training, I’ll quote the Kasumi/Takuma discussion.
It's like you're completely confused. It's hard to even understand what you're trying to say.
I said that lets take a look at the freshmen now, and compare them to Miyuki when she was a freshman. Because, naturally if you train you get stronger over time, so we can eliminate the 2nd year "edge" Miyuki has over them now. But then you go on about Mayumi and Mari being stronger than Miyuki, and contradictions? I really feel like I have to keep everything I say really simple for you, or you'll fly right off the tracks. Sorry but you'll have to explain to me what exactly you mean by what you're saying here to help me explain, I see there's some misunderstanding.
Quote:
Spoiler for Quote from v12:
“You must have been soundly beaten.”
“…………”
“As expected, the upperclassmen’s bar is really high.”
“……Why?”
Takuma’s eyes remained on the ground.
“Hm, why what?”
Finally seeing a reaction, Kasumi played along with another sentence.
“Why are those guys so strong!?”
A painful outcry. This cry must be what they mean by spitting blood, Kasumi thought. –As for who “those guys” were, Kasumi instinctively knew already.
“They’re high school students like us, aren’t they!? There’s only one year’s worth of difference! Even so, how are those guys so incredibly strong!?”
“Why does there have to be a special reason?”
“What did you say……?”
Kasumi finally felt like they were having a conversation, but she was foolish enough to say that aloud.
“They must be strong because they are. True enough…… If you have to find a reason, then they must have worked hard to get to where they are, no?”
“I also……!”
“Yeah, you must have worked hard too. I did as well. Yet, surely those guys are stronger because they put more effort into it, right?”
“…………”
“I’m not denying your talent here, OK? I too believe that a large proportion of my own power comes from my talent.”
“…………”
“But, a level of “might” that is enough to stagger even me…… Surely that came from a different place than talent, don’t you agree?”
Takuma raised his head and looked Kasumi in the eye.
From Takuma’s eyes, a tear of regret trickled down.
You, who understand so well, how do you interpret this? The freshmen natural talent is way, way, way above Tomitsuka because of their genes but Tomitsuka trained way, way, way more than them. With a proper training those 3 will be able to stomp Tomitsuka, the genes of the 28 families are just that good, in volume 3, Hanzo, arguably the strongest magician of 1st high after the triumvirate admitted he would lose to Miyuki 80% of the time(personally I think it would be 100%) and he doesn’t even know she is a Yotsuba. I remember it was said that school isn’t even very important in their era, you can really become noticeably stronger by in real competitions, training sessions, at clubs, and outside of school.
How do I interpret this? Did you already forget that we're talking about Miyuki here? in the quote, Takuma is upset over how big a difference there is between him and the upperclassmen, even though there's only a year difference.
Why would I disagree with their magical talent being higher? I should think so, although the reason Tomitsuka isn't good at traditional magic is because of the Psion armor, hypothetically, if it was removed, he could turn out to be very talented as well.
But saying they'll be able to beat him with proper training is just a guess(we saw Tomitsuka easily beat Takuma just last Voulme). The Shippou speciality is a bad match, and a fight between any of the twins and Tomitsuka, would probably have more to do with experience and speed than anything. I will say though, that they have much more room to improve than Tomitsuka, so it's entirely possible that they'll be able to beat him, stomp is not the word to use though.
I really don't know why you're bringing this up.
Quote:
The twins aren’t specialized, they are Saegusas, omnipotent, product of the 3rd lab. You say it yourself below, again, contradiction.
Spoiler for Another quote for you:
"
This was an alternate form of “Heated Turbulence”. This was a type of magic that was
another level higher than simply creating adiabatic compressed air blocks. They had
activated this magic while Suffocating Turbulence was ongoing, but this was still within
the boundaries of their abilities right now. The main subject of the 3rd Research Lab was
the control of multiple magics at the same time. The 3rd Research Lab originally
intended to test the boundary of how many magics could be activated at the same time
as well as raising that boundary as part of their Magician Augmentation Project. Among
the Magician Development Labs, the 3rd Research Lab was a rarity in that they were
open with their findings, allowing the 10th Research Lab to also benefit from this finding.
For the Juumonji Family that had mastered Phalanx, this helped them incorporate more
magic and resulted in the ability to use multiple magics. As for the Saegusa Family
Magicians who moved to the 7th Research Lab, even if it was high level magic, using two
or three of them at the same time was no difficult task.
What's a contradiction? Saying Saegusa are all-rounders? Saying that they're not particularly talented at controlling multiple magics? I wonder if you actually understand the word.
Quote:
They have no signature magic but they can control multiple spells better than anyone else, since they have no weaknesses in any area, they can combine various magics,
The 3rd lab share their findings with the 10th lab(which produced the Juumonji clan), this is probably the reason Juumonjis are able to cast dozen of barriers so easily.
Miyuki has no weaknesses in any area and can do everything concerning magic "at the highest level". This doesn't prove that they're more talented then her, that's just what you want to believe.
Quote:
I repeat Miyuki= outstanding talent + perfect training, Shippou and the Saegusa twins= talent + moderate training.
So going by what you just said, why do you think they'll reach the level of Miyuki? It's not based on logic, I can tell you that.
Quote:
Comes from his ancestry huh? Why do you think Miyuki is so talented in the first place?
You admit yourself that Miyuki isn’t better than Minami at casting barriers ? So it means she isn’t better than anyone at anything, there are exceptions. In Mahouka genes= talents, Honami was exceptionally gifted, she had the talent of a member of the 10MC, Maya also confirmed that Minami, her clone, has a talent comparable to the twins. Shippou’s genes make him predisposed for herd control, his talent is above Miyuki in that category, but his skills aren’t honed to perfection like Miyuki.
Uh, Miyuki is talented because of her ancestry? Is this somehow revolutionary?
And yes I said she isn't better than Minami at that. Doesn't the fact that I wrote that in, mean that I think so? That's in my original statement, "Miyuki is better at everything that they could do (except for Minami's barrier magic)."
For you this means they're all equal in talent? Or are you going somewhere with this? It sounds like complete rambling.
Miyuki just has better genes, predisposed or not. You saying he has more talent there is rubbish, what's in the novel states that Miyuki is able to use more advanced magic of the same category, with ease. It's silly to think this a a practice issue, when Takuma has had a lot more training in it than Miyuki. You're either going to accept it or not, I'm not going to try to convince you here.
Quote:
Miyuki without her limiter isn't very different, she controls her magic better and can use Cocytus, that's all. At Yokohoma she was at full power and rivaled with Mayumi, another member of the 10MC who works hard. Cocytus is her ultimate technique, beingable to use it doesn't mean your fighting style changed, if Miyuki had become a CQC fighter or something, I would agree with you.
All a change in fighting style needs, is for you to do something that you normally wouldn't. And again, we were talking about how accurate an assessment Mari and Mayumi are able to give. Google "Change".
A "change in fighting style" is different from "changing fighting styles". The latter is what you referenced with your Close quarter combat comment.
If you're having trouble with this then I'll give you an example: When you're judging fighters in a boxing match, and you're told that the maximum amount of weight the other fighter can lift is only 150kg (but he can actually lift 300), does it not affect your judgement? This is as simple as it gets. The seal affects, at the very least the scale, control and power of Miyukis magic.
Quote:
You asked me how exhaustion could affect their fight, this is the answer, don't play dumb. It even mentions that the winner would be the person with the most rational decisions. Miyuki pwned Lina for 3 reasons, Lina was an idiot underestimating an opponent as strong as her, once Miyuki took the initiative, she was already caught in her trap, Miyuki was calmer than her and Lina was exhausted.
"It even mentions that the winner would be the person with the most rational decisions. Miyuki pwned Lina for 3 reasons, Lina was an idiot underestimating an opponent as strong as her, once Miyuki took the initiative, she was already caught in her trap, Miyuki was calmer than her and Lina was exhausted."
...As I said, what does this have to do with exhaustion? This stuff can't be that hard to comprehend. Out of what you just said here; Rational decisions, underestimating, initiative, being calmer, none have anything to do with Lina being exhausted. These are all areas that Miyuki is superior in. All your quote does is say that Lina was getting fatigued.
Quote:
Anyone with common sense will put himself at a reasonable distance before using a magic that powerful, Lina is still alive, meaning she was acting like that when she used HMB before, you think someone would be dumb enough to use a magical nuke at close range?
So why are you telling me that Heavy metal burst isn't a "kamikaze attack" without Brionac, when we're talking about the Miyuki - Lina fight?
What I said was that she didn't have Brionac for the fight, and you replied that she doesn't need Brionac to use Heavy metal burst, to which I again replied that what use would a "nuke", be in the fight.
It's like everything you say is completely pointless.
Quote:
Thanks to Luckmonth I discovered that Cast Jamming nullifies MI magic too. The number isn't important and 16 people were opponents she can beat at the same time, not that she can hit with MI magic. There are conventional defenses for these magics we just don't know them all, I used Honoka because if you think her Cocytus is unstoppable, so is her Evil Eye, or even Azusa's Azusayumi.
What I'm referring to is how irrelevant Honoka being able to target 4 people at the same time is, if you're comparing Honoka to Miyuki. And again you're having a bit of a moment on your own here. What I said was that the reason Miyuki is almost impossible to defeat, is the combination of her uncontested magic, along with Cocytus, which has no conventional defense. This is my 2nd time saying this exact thing to you (and probably won't be the last).
The only person who's said anything about Cocytus being unstoppable is you. Even in terms of unique magic, Tatsuya's level of decomposition is more versatile, while Mayas meteor stream serves more or less the same purpose. It's not the point.
And you see, when, you know of these conventional defenses, is when you actually have an argument. Right now you're just wasting time. And you'll get just as far arguing that the Bigfoot, exists. You know it might, I'm not saying that, but you'll have to prove that to me. If it's uncommon, it's not conventional.
Also Counter-magic is different from Defensive magic. Cast jamming is counter magic, gram dispersion is counter magic. Phalanx is defensive magic.
"It's the combination of having Cocytus, to which there is no conventional defense, as well as having unparalleled magical ability. "
-The original point.
Quote:
Naotsugu can reach top speed and decelerate instantly, this is the best speed magic we have seen so far. He moves faster than the thought can perceive.
Spoiler for Quote, again:
However, Chiba Naotsugu was not an ordinary opponent.
Faster than the men could pull the trigger, Naotsugu had closed the distance. Unquestionably, aside from the man Naotsugu had closed with, they had all lost sight of him. His speed was such that even Tatsuya would have lost track of him if he hadn’t been concentrating.
As he passed by, the kodachi flashed. He had added a black border to the edge of his blade.
The hand holding the gun fell from the wrist down. The point of repulsion produced by the edge of the blade of the kodachi as it moved from left to right parted skin, flesh, and bone with astounding pressure.
His adversaries were probably aware of the instant slashing attack executed with the weight type magic ‘pressure cut’.
Unconcerned with their comrade’s cry of pain, the three men redirected their guns at Naotsugu.
The bullets penetrated Naotsugu’s afterimage.
To the BGM of glass breaking and painful moans, Naotsugu bridged the gap between his opponents.
Despite it not being the swiftness of the gods, the soldiers could not keep him in their gun sights.
Their fields of vision were too full of real and false images of their target.
Even Tatsuya watching from behind was not confident that he’d be able to perceive Naotsugu’s true whereabouts if he was facing him at point blank range.
The root of the trick was to continually cycle between charging and freezing.
Due to Naotsugu repeatedly charging, freezing, changing direction, charging, and freezing, afterimages were being produced in his adversaries’ retinas.
Originally, the logic of sword technique abhorred suspension or in other words ‘being still’. Without going into the fine details of the theory, being still was stiffening the muscles, halting the movement of the legs meant fixing the legs in a state where the leg muscles were stiffened, being still could lead to collapsing.
However, that was the case when only the muscles were moving.
Naotsugu used ‘Beginning’ in short, by controlling his body’s first movement with magic, he could switch from being at a complete standstill to top speed without a time lag.
Nevertheless, saying this was easy, doing it in combat was incredibly difficult.
Movement proceeding thought was the natural state in the world of martial arts. It was said that if you did not move before thinking then you would never become first class.
What Naotsugu was doing could be called the body’s movements surpassing thought even beyond the invoking of magic.
Come to think of it, with the ‘pressure cut’ from a little while ago, Naotsugu went from being an onlooker observing the adversary from far enough away in the area that he could not be sensed to instantly invoking and instantly finishing off an opponent. To do that without being able to read his opponents intentions, he probably did not take any countermeasures.
This switching, indeed this on and off speed was without a doubt the essence of the techniques that made Chiba Naotsugu one of the top ten martial artists in the world, Tatsuya thought.
The speed magic really is, top class. But I guess you didn't realize the quote is talking about actual speeds, not casting speeds? His acceleration is magic assisted.
Quote:
Why should she have the same psion count? Tatsuya has not her talent in magic.
Why are biological brothers around the same height? Tatsuya is extremely talented, just on a very narrow spectrum, your comparison would make sense if Tatsuya was incapable of magic at all.
Quote:
Don't misunderstand. By reaching her level I don't mean they'll be stronger than her, just being in the same ballpark, they will become difficult opponents for her. Given that they are from the 28 families they have the potential to even surpass her, not that I think it will happen. When Tatsuya and Miyuki will go to university, it's more than likely that these 3 will be the strongest students of 1st high.
I would like to say that I think Minami is way stronger than the 3 freshmen, she has the talent and received harsh training like Tatsuya. Miyuki could beat easily the others freshmen but not her, I am sure of it.
I am confident she could beat Tomitsuka or Hanzo, she is like the Miyuki of this new year.
Saying they're able to reach her level is a lot different from saying, they're in the same "ballpark". that can be interpreted a bit differently.
We've already gone over the freshmen - Miyuki scenario, they'll never be opponents that're difficult for Miyuki if she uses Cocytus. If we're talking about a fight without it, then what I can say is that they'll probably force Miyuki to concentrate on the fight, but they'll never be able to defeat her. The potential that you haven't been taking into account during this whole discussion is that of Miyukis and of the Yotsuba. They're an exception even among the 10 families. You should have no reason to believe that the students of other families will be able to "outgrow" Miyuki.
While saying Minami, is the "Miyuki of this year", would be overkill. I do think she'll turn out the strongest, although I would actually like to see what she can do in a fight first. Everything is only speculation at this point. Tomitsuka's Gram demolition armor is effective against barrier magic, so until I see what she can do I'll disagree on that match-up, but I could see her beating Hanzo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonfr
I'm sorry, I want to point this out before someone else does. Takuma and shippou are the same person. Full name Shippou Takuma. I think you meant Takuma and one of the Saegusa twins (Kasumii?) for the first line. And I think you meant Tatsuya and Tomitsuka for the second lines.
I also think you already knew that but you're getting entirely too burned out to keep up your argument.
For the record, I believe that while there's never a single quote saying Miyuki's psion level is close to Tatsuya's, there's also never a quote saying Miyuki's Psion isn't close to Tatsuya's either. Besides I thought the books made a point of saying it was discovered Psion level isn't necessarily important to begin with.
Yeah, you got it right. Odd that I didn't notice that.
I think it's mentioned at least two times that they both have an exceptional Psion count, here's one. "At that time, the standards for power of Magicians emphasized the psion count within the Magician's body (which included both the physical body and the mental "body") rather than focusing on the speed of Magic Sequence construction. By the old standards, both Tatsuya and Miyuki's psion count would rate as top tier."
The conclusion is really just a natural one. At this point we would have already read about Tatsuya's psion count being higher if there was a relevant difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest2
I'm pretty sure the novel explained cast jamming is also a form of magic and that the input of psions is what the antinite propagates as 'random noise'. So cast jamming does require someone with a bit of magical talent. The soldier in v8 is probably like Shizuku's brother who is stated to have some rudimentary magic talent but not enough to be able to actually use magic.
You could be right, It's been a while since cast jamming came up. Just from the top of my head I remembered reading about Antinite being used by non-magicians and the military.
Quote:
It has been mentioned in the description for Kuroba's special outer-systematic magic that counter magic would work, although It wasn't specific, and that it uses activation sequences. I assume the basic counter requiring a similar level and type of magic to offset/prevent the spell would apply. Also if it has an activation sequence and also I assume a magic sequence, whether made of pushions or psions, I also assume gram dispersion or gram demolition might still also be applicable.
That's true, although calling them conventional is a stretch, the gram spells are very rare, gram dispersion being supposedly only theoretical. Also I can't recall the description you mentioned, can you link it to me.
We aren't talking about counter magic either (although I understand how one could get confused, the conversation is not very coherent). We're talking about how Cocytus passes traditional defenses, and by continuation magical defenses.
I consider counter magic unconventional in and of itself. Only Tatsuya actively uses it, I guess if you count her Zone interference Miyuki counts as well. And Tomitsuka, while not actively "using" counter magic, is able to utilize it.
For me that's one of the bad Miyuki's side. She strongly depends on her brother that you just can't ship her with anyone else. However Masaki is not a bad guy
No matter what, I hope it wiil not end with incest
I don't like him. He still thinks he has a chance at beating Tatsuya, he also listened to George when he said Masaki could get Miyuki easily if he tried. Blasphemer. I hope he never finds happiness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddam
Spoiler for This guy Echizen:
Taurus silver only advanced the casting times of Specialized CADs. Miyuki uses a generalized one. So I didn't understand why you were saying that there's a huge difference between the CADs then and the CADs now(3 years), when we're talking about Miyukis activation speed. I presume that you just didn't know that.
Sigh, I don't really feel like browsing through the novel for quotes but since you're being so stubborn here's an excerpt about Miyuki: "Although she couldn't draw data directly from the dimension of information like Tatsuya, it was possible to perceive the traces of event modification left by magic. This was something any magician could do at varying levels, and anything a magician could do Miyuki could do at the highest level."
And there really are so many others in the same vein. You could probably find some line praising Miyukis outstanding talent in every volume if you wanted to. You simply have an incorrect understanding if you think Miyuki is exceptional in only Wide area magic and Ice magic, in terms of raw magical talent, she is probably the greatest in the series (I feel like I've said this already). The fact that her emotions can actually affect her surroundings is proof of this. You'll have to look this one up yourself, but it's mentioned that, that's a sign of an exceptional talent in magic (or something similar).
No, we can't. But Miyuki won the fight in quite a dominant fashion. And I didn't find nearly enough indication that Lina would do better in a rematch to justify saying that she'd be favored. In any case saying Lina wouldn't lose 10 times out of 10 is a much more reasonable claim than saying that Miyuki isn't an elite among elites.
Sigh.
It's like you're completely confused. It's hard to even understand what you're trying to say.
I said that lets take a look at the freshmen now, and compare them to Miyuki when she was a freshman. Because, naturally if you train you get stronger over time, so we can eliminate the 2nd year "edge" Miyuki has over them now. But then you go on about Mayumi and Mari being stronger than Miyuki, and contradictions? I really feel like I have to keep everything I say really simple for you, or you'll fly right off the tracks. Sorry but you'll have to explain to me what exactly you mean by what you're saying here to help me explain, I see there's some misunderstanding.
How do I interpret this? Did you already forget that we're talking about Miyuki here? in the quote, Takuma is upset over how big a difference there is between him and the upperclassmen, even though there's only a year difference.
Why would I disagree with their magical talent being higher? I should think so, although the reason Tomitsuka isn't good at traditional magic is because of the Psion armor, hypothetically, if it was removed, he could turn out to be very talented as well.
But saying they'll be able to beat him with proper training is just a guess(we saw Tomitsuka easily beat Takuma just last Voulme). The Shippou speciality is a bad match, and a fight between any of the twins and Tomitsuka, would probably have more to do with experience and speed than anything. I will say though, that they have much more room to improve than Tomitsuka, so it's entirely possible that they'll be able to beat him, stomp is not the word to use though.
I really don't know why you're bringing this up.
What's a contradiction? Saying Saegusa are all-rounders? Saying that they're not particularly talented at controlling multiple magics? I wonder if you actually understand the word.
Miyuki has no weaknesses in any area and can do everything concerning magic "at the highest level". This doesn't prove that they're more talented then her, that's just what you want to believe.
So going by what you just said, why do you think they'll reach the level of Miyuki? It's not based on logic, I can tell you that.
Uh, Miyuki is talented because of her ancestry? Is this somehow revolutionary?
And yes I said she isn't better than Minami at that. Doesn't the fact that I wrote that in, mean that I think so? That's in my original statement, "Miyuki is better at everything that they could do (except for Minami's barrier magic)."
For you this means they're all equal in talent? Or are you going somewhere with this? It sounds like complete rambling.
Miyuki just has better genes, predisposed or not. You saying he has more talent there is rubbish, what's in the novel states that Miyuki is able to use more advanced magic of the same category, with ease. It's silly to think this a a practice issue, when Takuma has had a lot more training in it than Miyuki. You're either going to accept it or not, I'm not going to try to convince you here.
All a change in fighting style needs, is for you to do something that you normally wouldn't. And again, we were talking about how accurate an assessment Mari and Mayumi are able to give. Google "Change".
A "change in fighting style" is different from "changing fighting styles". The latter is what you referenced with your Close quarter combat comment.
If you're having trouble with this then I'll give you an example: When you're judging fighters in a boxing match, and you're told that the maximum amount of weight the other fighter can lift is only 150kg (but he can actually lift 300), does it not affect your judgement? This is as simple as it gets. The seal affects, at the very least the scale, control and power of Miyukis magic.
"It even mentions that the winner would be the person with the most rational decisions. Miyuki pwned Lina for 3 reasons, Lina was an idiot underestimating an opponent as strong as her, once Miyuki took the initiative, she was already caught in her trap, Miyuki was calmer than her and Lina was exhausted."
...As I said, what does this have to do with exhaustion? This stuff can't be that hard to comprehend. Out of what you just said here; Rational decisions, underestimating, initiative, being calmer, none have anything to do with Lina being exhausted. These are all areas that Miyuki is superior in. All your quote does is say that Lina was getting fatigued.
So why are you telling me that Heavy metal burst isn't a "kamikaze attack" without Brionac, when we're talking about the Miyuki - Lina fight?
What I said was that she didn't have Brionac for the fight, and you replied that she doesn't need Brionac to use Heavy metal burst, to which I again replied that what use would a "nuke", be in the fight.
It's like everything you say is completely pointless.
What I'm referring to is how irrelevant Honoka being able to target 4 people at the same time is, if you're comparing Honoka to Miyuki. And again you're having a bit of a moment on your own here. What I said was that the reason Miyuki is almost impossible to defeat, is the combination of her uncontested magic, along with Cocytus, which has no conventional defense. This is my 2nd time saying this exact thing to you (and probably won't be the last).
The only person who's said anything about Cocytus being unstoppable is you. Even in terms of unique magic, Tatsuya's level of decomposition is more versatile, while Mayas meteor stream serves more or less the same purpose. It's not the point.
And you see, when, you know of these conventional defenses, is when you actually have an argument. Right now you're just wasting time. And you'll get just as far arguing that the Bigfoot, exists. You know it might, I'm not saying that, but you'll have to prove that to me. If it's uncommon, it's not conventional.
Also Counter-magic is different from Defensive magic. Cast jamming is counter magic, gram dispersion is counter magic. Phalanx is defensive magic.
"It's the combination of having Cocytus, to which there is no conventional defense, as well as having unparalleled magical ability. "
-The original point.
The speed magic really is, top class. But I guess you didn't realize the quote is talking about actual speeds, not casting speeds? His acceleration is magic assisted.
Why are biological brothers around the same height? Tatsuya is extremely talented, just on a very narrow spectrum, your comparison would make sense if Tatsuya was incapable of magic at all.
Saying they're able to reach her level is a lot different from saying, they're in the same "ballpark". that can be interpreted a bit differently.
We've already gone over the freshmen - Miyuki scenario, they'll never be opponents that're difficult for Miyuki if she uses Cocytus. If we're talking about a fight without it, then what I can say is that they'll probably force Miyuki to concentrate on the fight, but they'll never be able to defeat her. The potential that you haven't been taking into account during this whole discussion is that of Miyukis and of the Yotsuba. They're an exception even among the 10 families. You should have no reason to believe that the students of other families will be able to "outgrow" Miyuki.
While saying Minami, is the "Miyuki of this year", would be overkill. I do think she'll turn out the strongest, although I would actually like to see what she can do in a fight first. Everything is only speculation at this point. Tomitsuka's Gram demolition armor is effective against barrier magic, so until I see what she can do I'll disagree on that match-up, but I could see her beating Hanzo.
Yeah, you got it right. Odd that I didn't notice that.
I think it's mentioned at least two times that they both have an exceptional Psion count, here's one. "At that time, the standards for power of Magicians emphasized the psion count within the Magician's body (which included both the physical body and the mental "body") rather than focusing on the speed of Magic Sequence construction. By the old standards, both Tatsuya and Miyuki's psion count would rate as top tier."
The conclusion is really just a natural one. At this point we would have already read about Tatsuya's psion count being higher if there was a relevant difference.
You could be right, It's been a while since cast jamming came up. Just from the top of my head I remembered reading about Antinite being used by non-magicians and the military.
That's true, although calling them conventional is a stretch, the gram spells are very rare, gram dispersion being supposedly only theoretical. Also I can't recall the description you mentioned, can you link it to me.
We aren't talking about counter magic either (although I understand how one could get confused, the conversation is not very coherent). We're talking about how Cocytus passes traditional defenses, and by continuation magical defenses.
I consider counter magic unconventional in and of itself. Only Tatsuya actively uses it, I guess if you count her Zone interference Miyuki counts as well. And Tomitsuka, while not actively "using" counter magic, is able to utilize it.
You know... I'm starting to think this thread fills up so quick because we just argue over petty details. A lot. Really, really passionately.
Actually, not starting too, we do argue over petty details.
2014-03-22, 07:43
the couple of Tasuya worshipers, and she finds him cute.
My Heart is Pocky
