Spice and Wolf Light Novel Discussion

[Ichihara Asako]

I finally read vol1 this week (after leaving it on the shelf for many months) -- ordered vol 2 and 3. And the S1 DVD box set, and vol 1-2 of the manga... back on a bit of a Horo binge.

[79wolf]

I have mixed feelings about this news about book 17. I had myself prepared for Lawrence to die in some battle/tragedy in book 16 with a touching end moment with Holo. Not that I wanted that to happen!!!

Now my mind keeps racing about different scenarios in a story all its own. I still have to be prepared to not be happy, cause lets face it, a story like this has a slim chance of happily ever after. Of course I'd be lieing if I said I didn't want that to happen.

Are we thinking the forums with explode with spoilers when these books come out, or is everyone going to be teasing us that actual know? Good thing I know people that can read Japanese lol

[nsmcho]

Originally Posted by Kaguya

The following is an extract of the interview to Araki Hitomi who is a Dengekibunko editor.

By the 16th volume that will be released on February 10, an original story reaches to the last chapter at last.
The event related to the big trade by which precautionary measures were taken beforehand from the middle stage of the story is completed by this volume.
Next, the 17th volume that collected the short story is due to be released at the early summer time, and the novelettes of the newly-written work describing the end of a travel of peddler Lawrence and Wise Wolf Holo are due to be collected.
"Spice and Wolf" is completed by this 17th volume at last.
Please see the last of their travel with your own eyes for whether "the story in which happiness continues all the time" which was a theme of this work exists!

It seems that the end of their travel is collected by Vol.17 Side Colors.

The following is an extract from author's blog on January 10.

The 16th volume of "Spice and Wolf" comes out next month.
It is equivalent to the last volume in an original story.
In construction, because I was never able to write that and this, I plans to write them separately. So the story continues for a moment.
However, I think that you understand what Lawrence and Holo will do after all if you read this.

I think that Vol.16 has the happy ending, and Vol.17 has the story which make the reader cry.
Probably, Vol.17 is a story between Vol.16 and Kin no Mugiho.
The end of a travel may mean the end of life's journey instead of Yoits.

I'm sorry, my English is not perfect and I have a hard time understanding this.
Does that mean vol 16 won't reveal anything about the end of their travel?

[Kaguya]

Originally Posted by nsmcho

I'm sorry, my English is not perfect and I have a hard time understanding this.
Does that mean vol 16 won't reveal anything about the end of their travel?

The end of their travel is Vol.17 Side Colors IV.
It is unknown what the end of a travel means.
If Vol.16 is released, readers will be able to guess what it is.

[JThree]

You know, I'm not sure if I should read the last few novels, if I can't take a "sad" ending.

Cut your losses, before it gets too late.

I'm a Disney kind of guy.


JThree

[tyranuus]

Well the way I read what we know is Book 16 will be the final part of the main story; travelling to Holo's home of Yoitsu, and will probably be a happy ending (in fact it almost has to be given what we know of Book 17)

Book 17 will likely be a collection of short stories taken at varies time gaps after this period, and will cover a few of the things that happened after. It will quite possibly end with Lawrence's passing away; the end of thier journey together. If this is after a long and happy life together for the pair, I wouldn't so much call this an unhappy ending, but just the march of time.

[JThree]

But if Lawrence is the "true love" of Holo's long life, than she will be left somewhat empty after his passing, so . . . . that leave's something to addressed. The way this series has been built up, I can't see her happy with anyone else, or as happy afterwards.

So unless she sacrifices her immortality (if that is possible) after he dies, or some other deux ex machina happens, I'm not sure that will be a "happy ending."

JThree

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by JThree

But if Lawrence is the "true love" of Holo's long life, than she will be left somewhat empty after his passing, so . . . . that leave's something to addressed. The way this series has been built up, I can't see her happy with anyone else, or as happy afterwards.

Kind of the point of this story seems to be that Lawrence is slowly showing Holo that she *can* go on, despite her immortality and the pain of loss. After all, she clearly can't avoid this sort of thing, so it would be better for her to learn how to heal and live her kind of life to it's fullest.

Originally Posted by JThree

So unless she sacrifices her immortality (if that is possible) after he dies, or some other deux ex machina happens, I'm not sure that will be a "happy ending."

I still hope that the story doesn't try to take an easy, sappy way out. It's always nice when a tale genuinely gives us hope for the future, while feeling like it's set in our own world rather than some fantasy land we don't live in.

Despite the romantic undertones, the story has really not been about their romance. Lawrence's story has been about him coming to terms with life outside of business, and realizing how shallow his aspirations and dreams are. Likewise, Holo's realized a lot of important things about life as a (relative) immortal and what happens when she tries to ignore that aspect of herself.

In short I hope the story will make good use of this character development and it's more adult/mature approach. There are plenty of classic stories about childish people who just want to die together, after all.

[Rajura]

Wish I had access to Volume XVI... and the time to read it (unfortunately, I am far too busy). I needs my Holo fix!

[tik tak]

Novel 16 of spice and wolf





Following images are contained in the novel 16:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[JThree]

Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo

Kind of the point of this story seems to be that Lawrence is slowly showing Holo that she *can* go on, despite her immortality and the pain of loss. After all, she clearly can't avoid this sort of thing, so it would be better for her to learn how to heal and live her kind of life to it's fullest.

I'm not sure if that's one of the plots or the points of the book yet. We still don't know what the endgame of the saga is. It could be, but I'm not positive. Remember that dream she had of seeing her own kind, the wolves, and still turning away from them to be with Lawrence, and then finding him turn into a skeleton/dusty. That doesn't seem to me to be foreshadowing of that she can go on without him type of ending.



I still hope that the story doesn't try to take an easy, sappy way out. It's always nice when a tale genuinely gives us hope for the future, while feeling like it's set in our own world rather than some fantasy land we don't live in.

How what this story entail giving hope for the future?

Despite the romantic undertones, the story has really not been about their romance. Lawrence's story has been about him coming to terms with life outside of business, and realizing how shallow his aspirations and dreams are. Likewise, Holo's realized a lot of important things about life as a (relative) immortal and what happens when she tries to ignore that aspect of herself.

Granted, it's about the two of them growing up, but I do think it IS about their romance.

In short I hope the story will make good use of this character development and it's more adult/mature approach. There are plenty of classic stories about childish people who just want to die together, after all.

Okay, besides Romeo and Juliet (where the two idiots kill themselves rather than facing certain harsh realities) what other stories have childish people wanting to die together. I can think of many husbands and wives, who after being together many years, after one passes on, the other doesn't necessarily feel like going on. I don't necessarily think that's childish. In fact, I get more upset, when some individuals who after being married almost 50 years, as soon as one passes, marries another person in about six months. Now, that's cruel.


I think one of the main subplots of the series, is Holo finding out how hollow being immortal is -- without someone to share it; rather than moving on after you've lost a loved one. If the plot calls for it, would it be that bad if she gave her immortality to have a mortal existance (and death) with Lawrence? Or does that smack too much of Hans Christian Anderson's "Little Mermaid" syndrome? The original, not the Disney version, mind you.


P.S. I think Holo and Lawrence have more depth than Romeo and Juliet ever did.

JThree

[nsmcho]

Originally Posted by tik tak

Novel 16 of spice and wolf





Following images are contained in the novel 16:

pics

2017 AD in the West...

[Rajura]

Dang I have to get this book soon!!!

I can't wait!

[Masanori Ota]

First post in months, maybe years.

My copy is in the mail right now.

[tyranuus]

Now you're just teasing us lol

[Kaguya]

I finished reading Vol.16 now.

I comment as abstractly as possible.

Spoiler for Vol.16:

It concluded the story which continues from Vol.6.
I think that it was development similar to Vol.9.
The ending is not pessimistic.
Rather, the approach of ending and the raison d'etre of a new character make readers expect something.
After all, Yoitsu is not important.
Holo is basically lonely. She fears being left alone.
If Lawrence dies, she may look for other companions.
But now, Holo found a place of her own in Lawrence.
Lawrence sometimes digresses and will surely be involved in trouble throughout life.
And Holo will say at every time, "You are unbelievably softhearted."

I have understood the important role by the character who appeared in Vol.4.
It seems that Holo and Lawrence go to Nyohira in Vol.17 according to the afterword.

I can't wait for Vol.17.

[Rajura]

I think I will be happy with this... thank you again Ka-sama!


**** I broke my rule and had to read the spoiler.

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by JThree

what other stories have childish people wanting to die together.

I didn't mean wanting to literally "die together" in the Romeo and Juliet sense, that was probably a poor choice of words. I meant more along the lines of stories that try to reconcile things in a simple or convenient manner - ie, an immortal becoming mortal or vice-versa. Rather than coping with grief and loss, it is avoided in some way, swept under the rug.

Originally Posted by JThree

I get more upset, when some individuals who after being married almost 50 years, as soon as one passes, marries another person in about six months.

I suppose I do as well, because it implies they aren't really solving their problems.

But that's my point, really. I'd like to see the story solve it's problems. We've been invested in the idea that Lawrence wants to see Holo overcome these issues inherent to her immortality and loneliness.. and that Holo's fears of these issues are preventing her from growing closer to him.

I'd like to see those things solved, without some cheap opt-out. Otherwise it won't feel "complete" to me. That's the best I can do to explain why I want a less "convenient" ending. So much of what I've read so far is directly based on themes of coping with loneliness, and dealing with loss. If those problems simply vanish into a puff of romantic smoke, then what was the point?

Originally Posted by JThree

I think one of the main subplots of the series, is Holo finding out how hollow being immortal is

My impression has always been that she knew this all along, and that she's so drunk on her newfound joy that it's become painful to think about her immortality anymore. Again, that's the conflict I am talking about wanting to see resolved. The story certainly can solve the conflict by letting her live with another immortal, perhaps even Lawrence.

But would that really feel like a solution worthy of the story? I'm not sure, it depends on how the novels progress from volumes 5 onward. But I still fear it would end up feeling way too convenient, like the same kind of "escape from reality" that your post-50-years-of-marriage idea had. More like a children's fable than an adult's hard look at reality. Might as well watch a happily-ever-after Disney movie, where I'm not so invested in the characters and the exploration of their problems.

Originally Posted by JThree

P.S. I think Holo and Lawrence have more depth than Romeo and Juliet ever did.

It's a series of light novels, not a play. It's also about relatively intelligent adults, not "star crossed" dumbass teenagers. So yeah, I would hope just those two facts would grant it far more depth

[JThree]

I suppose I do as well, because it implies they aren't really solving their problems.

But that's my point, really. I'd like to see the story solve it's problems. We've been invested in the idea that Lawrence wants to see Holo overcome these issues inherent to her immortality and loneliness.. and that Holo's fears of these issues are preventing her from growing closer to him.

Is it so much fears as the reality of the situation.

I'd like to see those things solved, without some cheap opt-out. Otherwise it won't feel "complete" to me. That's the best I can do to explain why I want a less "convenient" ending. So much of what I've read so far is directly based on themes of coping with loneliness, and dealing with loss. If those problems simply vanish into a puff of romantic smoke, then what was the point?

I see what you're saying, but is it possible for some fictional couples to both realize they will have ongoing problems and still have a romantic ending? Just speculating.
There was another fictional romantic storyline where after all the grief and suffering the characters went through together, they parted their own ways forever. From the evidence of the storyline, they were going off to be as miserable separately as they supposedly were together.

My impression has always been that she knew this all along, and that she's so drunk on her newfound joy that it's become painful to think about her immortality anymore. Again, that's the conflict I am talking about wanting to see resolved. The story certainly can solve the conflict by letting her live with another immortal, perhaps even Lawrence.

Ok, I'm not sure if I would use the term "drunk" as opposed to another term. Perhaps more caught up in the flux of emotions she hasn't had in centuries. Holo has recently experience joy, sorrow, happiness, jealousy (with Lawrence's relationship with Nora), anger, etc. Perhaps the term "overwhelmed" might be better, IMHO.



But would that really feel like a solution worthy of the story?
ore like a children's fable than an adult's hard look at reality. Might as well watch a happily-ever-after Disney movie, where I'm not so invested in the characters and the exploration of their problems.That leads to another question on my part. Are sad, unhappy endings where the couple part "deeper" than happy ever after endings? I wonder about that, or is just the way the author presents the material, characters, and storyline.

Enjoying this conversation.

JThree

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by JThree

Is it so much fears as the reality of the situation.

I think so, because by avoiding interacting with humans, Holo only became more miserable anyhow. Why not interact, be happy, and accept the misery at the end? The only argument is whether it's a difference in degrees - whether suffering alone eternally is any worse than a serious grieving period followed by more happiness. Whether you call it "her fears" or "the reality of the situation", that's still the core conflict for her, right?

Originally Posted by JThree

is it possible for some fictional couples to both realize they will have ongoing problems and still have a romantic ending?

Don't assume that I want the ending to be completely wretched or non-romantic

Romance has been a core part of the story so far, so it certainly would be nice for the romance to continue, or have a meaningful ending.. but a "life goes on" ending is fine too. In fact I would prefer that to a forced ending. I don't think a story needs to provide full closure on everything, just enough to provide a reasonable ending for that chapter of it's character's lives.

Originally Posted by JThree

I'm not sure if I would use the term "drunk" as opposed to..

Yes, that's the meaning I intended to convey. I just used "drunk" because she's.. well.. a bit of a big drinker. Sorry for the bad pun

Originally Posted by JThree

Are sad, unhappy endings where the couple part "deeper" than happy ever after endings?

I don't think so. To me, depth doesn't stem from the level of happiness or romance at the end of the story.. it's based more on whether the story explores the hows and whys of it's conflicts and their possible solutions, and deals with them in some meaningful way.

So in the context of a broken romance, whether it's "deep" or not has to do with whether the characters have given things a shot, and come to a convincing conclusion (or showing how they will deal with a forced parting).

In other words, I'll be happy if, given a immortality-status-change ending, both Lawrence and Holo have explored the possibility as any adults who love each other would. I just don't want it to feel cheap and/or contrived, given the level at which this story explores these kinds of things. Very few stories that end that way even remotely try.

What if Lawrence became immortal, and then their relationship turned sour? Suddenly we have two miserable immortals. Don't even get me started on how Lawrence would feel if Holo becomes mortal and dies a sudden death.. do you think he'd be able to cope with the guilt?