Claymore Manga - Japanese Version

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Bikerider

SOmething has been bothering me about the way the Warriors are drawn since the beginning. I finally see it. Maybe this is on purpose, I don't know. It's the Warrior's legs. They are not women's legs. They are straight. Men's legs are straight. Women's legs are a bit knock kneed to compensate for their wider hips. Maybe this is done on purpose because the warriors would require stronger legs for fighting. So I don't know if it's a style of drawing or a character design.

I think it's both: these are all tough women Bikerider: although the art has evolved to make them more naturally beautiful, fuller (the average woman is chunkier and no doubt weighs much more then warriors, which would explain the wider hips; the average woman doesn't also fight and isn't adapted for it like they are), and more curvy, none of them have a "typical" woman's body. They are all hardened and built for combat; it makes sense that the legs would be that way.

Yagi has overtime, definitely tried to make them more "womanly" in the sense of making them more beautiful (Deneve's increase ), fuller and so on like I said, but only mildly so they still look like they possess that toughness; in the beginning though, they were definitely all straight-up and didn't have any of those soft touches.

[Nixl]

Well I guess sitting on couches of snow for 7 years will definitely do that to the Ghosts' figures.

I'll admit though, I am enjoying Yagi's recent art style. While I loved Angel Denutsu, I felt the art was hard to adjust to at first.

[FormerAbyssalone]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Well I guess sitting on couches of snow for 7 years will definitely do that to the Ghosts' figures.

I'll admit though, I am enjoying Yagi's recent art style. While I loved Angel Denutsu, I felt the art was hard to adjust to at first.

I luv his artwork and it can only get better. Still where does he find all the women he draws in the covers?

[Bikerider]

Any one else notice how Claymores move in a team ?
Single Digit out front. To the right: the 10's (or next strongest, to the left: the 20's( or third strongest), at the rear: the lowest ranked.

This is how they are in the Slashers arc. It's also the pattern of the teams in Pieta for the war in the north. Stacy's Team in chapter 110 follows the same pattern.

[lightsenshi]

Originally Posted by Bikerider

Any one else notice how Claymores move in a team ?
Single Digit out front. To the right: the 10's (or next strongest, to the left: the 20's( or third strongest), at the rear: the lowest ranked.

This is how they are in the Slashers arc. It's also the pattern of the teams in Pieta for the war in the north. Stacy's Team in chapter 110 follows the same pattern.

Even so, they still seem to lack the ability to fight as a unit. They rather fight as individuals, often with the highest ranked going first. (Or it could be my imagination.)

[Bikerider]

I see that when Audrey and Ray's team meets Riful they are also in this formation. Well... Audrey and Ray are. I'm assuming the other two are following the pattern.

[Bikerider]

Let's see... Which Warriors now owe their lives to the Ghosts ?

Nina and team: 4
Audrey, Ray and team: 4
Miata: 1
{Gally isn't a warrior anymore, so I'm not including her}
Rene's Search Team: 3
Dee-Dee and team: 4
Stacy and team: 4

That's 20 Warriors who owe their lives to the Ghosts. They rescue another team, that will be more than half.

[MisterJB]

That's 20 Warriors who owe their lives to the Ghosts. They rescue another team, that will be more than half.

Claymore is a pitt of creativity these days. I just hope Yagi is going somewhere with this.

[lightsenshi]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

Claymore is a pitt of creativity these days. I just hope Yagi is going somewhere with this.

You mean, besides circles?

[Gooral]

To my list of observations and questions I can add another two.

21) Check out these pictures (use arrows on the sides to scroll through the pictures). In the first one Dae has mentioned about someone warping some facts regarding this unknown entity that was more powerful than AOs (chapter 110, vol. 20). In the second (chapter 18, vol. 4) Irene explicitly states that Priscilla has become #2 recently. But as you can see in pictures three and four (chapter 37, vol. 7) when Clare looked for it in the archives Priscilla wasn't #2. She hasn't been assigned #2 spot yet. So unless Clare didn't look in the archives but asked someone (Rubel for example) - which IMO is doubtful - it's a proof of Dae being right. Clare is not stupid and even if she asked someone instead of searching official documents I would think she would ask Teresa's and Priscilla's handler, i.e. Orsay and someone else in case Orsay wasn't assigned to Priscilla. Rubel might have made Priscilla look weaker by not telling she already was #2. Although in that case someone else than Rimuto would have to be the boss, otherwise I don't see how Rubel would be able to pull it off (who knows, maybe previous chief was demoted after the big failure of loosing #1-5). It also could be just a negligence on the scribe's/archivist's part.

Although I think it's an interesting observation I don't think I'm right. I can't see a reason why Rubel would not want MiB to know that something greater than Abyssals was born. What could MiB do about it if they knew? Which makes me think that Dae suspected that there was a spy in the organization for a long time and now was a good chance to use Priscilla's arm to his advantage and make Rimuto investigate the matter even though the alteration of Priscilla's case was a lie and indeed the only reason they haven't heard about her was because she was under the radar this whole time and not much has changed in the deadlock between abyssals (which suggested that Priscilla wasn't that strong). Talk about being devious. That's why Rubel commented that "a tiresome fellow has returned". In other words Dae was bullshitting everyone to make them aware of a spy which he detected through other means (but didn't have any proof and didn't know who it was, which his little performance could help him with that, anyone who would start sniffing around just after his speech would be a main suspect, especially if it was someone who almost never visited him).

To be honest there is one reason Rubel might have wanted to keep Priscilla's real power a secret. If MiB would know how powerful Priscilla was they would try to repeat the experiment and create another one. But the thing is - they considered Teresa as the strongest monster and didn't manage to create another one as powerful. They (Rubel at least) thought that Priscilla could be stronger than Teresa and yet they didn't make another one. So this suggests that the power of the warriors they make is quite random and strongly relies on the mental state of humans that are being used for hybridization.

22) Somehow MiB can measure Claymore's powers rather accurately, even Priscilla's (and by that I mean they know she's better than Irene and could aim for #1 spot). But Priscilla has never released her powers until she met Teresa, so how? Can they still measure their youki just after hybridization? Or maybe they measure time they need to pass some test (kill youma etc.) or how many youma they can kill at one time? Or is it through the eye (but that would make them too dependent on her)?
BTW, notice that when Teresa wasn't sure about the outcome of her next encounter with Prissy, Priscilla was still cloaked and Teresa couldn't sense her. Although later somehow she could tell Priscilla harbours a monster, which suggests that Teresa might have been the only Claymore able to sense cloaked Claymores under right circumstances and without interference of other Claymores. See this analogy. The fact she could sense Rafaela makes it even more convincing.

So on the side note, those who think Teresa thought Priscilla will surpass her should read the manga again since once Teresa could actually sense Priscilla she knew who the boss was.

[Prongs]

where is Chap 114........? is about TIME....

[Gooral]

This is something my friend Piggy has noticed. In ES 2 when Miria cut Hilda's head it was bigger then her but later she was able to hold it in her hands (i.e. it returned to human form). How was it possible? We've seen AB's head being cut off several times (e.g. turtle AB from Pieta and Gonahl AB) and nothing like that happened. Maybe someone remembers other ABs with their heads cut off (male AB in slasher's arc had his head cut off but immediately after it was completely destroyed).

A crazy theory came to my mind after reading my point about the Rubel's sunglasses. Assuming MiB aren't human or at least they have inhuman powers maybe each of them, after successfully joining MiB receives a gift in a form of enhanced abilities chosen by him. So Rubel could see (detect might be a better word) a wider electromagnetic spectrum than humans, for example in infrared. This would explain why he could find Rafeala or Clare or that he's always in the right place. Rimuto, with all the veins on his head and the fact he's a leader would have X-Men's Professor X like abilities (i.e. like Galatea), the one from ES 4 with strange, covered one eye could sense them (so he would have Galatea's abilities too but different set), Orsay would have Anastasia's abilities since he covered his whole head (), Ermita would have super strong and sharp teeth, Dae would have extraordinary regenerative powers (which would save him from dying after being exposed to sth that took his whole face off), etc.

[MisterJB]

Could be that Hilda used the last ounces of her strengt to return to human form for Miria's benefit. It's not unheard of, the second Yoma we see Clare kill managed to speak and extend one of his claws after having half of his head sliced off.

[Jean Claymore]

I don't remember very well the yoma your mentioning, but I think the ABs quite different since most of them do revert back to themselves whenever they please... If I remember correctly, Luciella reverted back into her human form when she was injured after fighting Isley, so I guess ABs are forced to revert back to human forms instead of keeping there awakened form when they lack strengh.

[MisterJB]

It's not about lacking strength. Usually, Awakened Beings who died in AB form, remained in AB form. Hilda reverted to human form, we are trying to find a plausible reason for it besides "Rule of Drama".

[Jean Claymore]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

It's not about lacking strength. Usually, Awakened Beings who died in AB form, remained in AB form. Hilda reverted to human form, we are trying to find a plausible reason for it besides "Rule of Drama".

I must say it was too obvious for ABs to die as there true form since they all died fighting..... Just if your insisting on the 'Rule of Drama' (as you say), I would mention Elena as well

[Gooral]

After seeing chapter 77 again and after reading again a question "how did Miata regenerate her hands even though she was an offensive warrior" I've noticed something that has never been mentioned before (at least not on Animesuki). Sure, we've all agreed that Miata reattached her hands and then regenerated small chunks that were missing but the question I have is how? She didn't have anything to grab these hands with so unless she could do it from at least an inch away I don't see how it would be possible so it would look like her regeneration abilities were stronger then what we initially thought or it was another oversight by Yagi.

Originally Posted by MisterJB

Could be that Hilda used the last ounces of her strengt to return to human form for Miria's benefit. It's not unheard of, the second Yoma we see Clare kill managed to speak and extend one of his claws after having half of his head sliced off.

You would have to explain then how come Hilda manage to do that when her head was cut off. Here are the examples I could find and they could never do that, once their head was cut they've had at best few seconds to live.

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Gooral

You would have to explain then how come Hilda manage to do that when her head was cut off. Here are the examples I could find and they could never do that, once their head was cut they've had at best few seconds to live.

The same reason Hilda was able to hold back in AB form or some Claymores manage to return after the 80% limit, I assume. Amazing willpower.
Besides, that turtle Awakened Being almost forced those double digits to Awaken even after having his head sliced off. He could probrably have returned to human form if he wanted to.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

The same reason Hilda was able to hold back in AB form or some Claymores manage to return after the 80% limit, I assume. Amazing willpower.

Firstly, holding back in AB form is one thing, returning to human form while having head cut off and doing it in a few seconds is another. Secondly, if she had such willpower why didn't she change in the first place or just kill herself? It's obvious Hilda wanted Miria or someone else to kill her but it's also obvious that the reason she didn't change into human form was because she didn't want Miria to hold back. So why do it later? To destroy Miria's psyche?
The thing is we've never seen anything like that and we've seen dozens of ABs die. Isley is also one of them, AB from Gonahl that Ophelia killed too (and her head was cut off). I'm not even sure it's possible to return to human form after being cut off from the core/vital spot and having only head remaining. Somehow AB's head would change to a human head? I would think that in all the cases we've seen we would see sth like that at least once more. We've seen Ophelia do sth similar but it required quite a bit of time and she was completely whole then. And AFAIR head has always been a weak point for every AB unless it was a shell, so the only explanation for Hilda's return to human form would be that Hilda's real form was inside this humongous body just like it was with Agatha, but it would have nothing to do with willpower. Willpower is a weak, far-fetched excuse IMO.

Besides, that turtle Awakened Being almost forced those double digits to Awaken even after having his head sliced off. He could probrably have returned to human form if he wanted to.

He just used ability he always had but it was youki MANIPULATION, i.e. by using "just a little of his own youma energy he exploited weak points in their consciousness". Changing into human form is sth else entirely. You're reaching.

BTW, HegemonKhan was the one who came up with this shell explanation and I have to give him that it's more convincing than willpower.

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Gooral

So why do it later? To destroy Miria's psyche?

A good point. Frankly, I don't know, all I have are conjectures.
It could even be that the effort Hilda had been putting into holding back her Awakened Body/Yoki backfired once her brain (the possible source of the Yoki) was no longer controlling the rest of her body and came back to her with such a force that returned her head to a human form, independently of Hilda's will.

I'm not even sure it's possible to return to human form after being cut off from the core/vital spot and having only head remaining.

We would have to ask ourselves just what is the "Core"? Is it the brain? Probably since the head has a lways been a weak spot.
Yoki is capable of breaking the laws of physic as proved by Jean when she stood up and walked without a spine.

And AFAIR head has always been a weak point for every AB unless it was a shell, so the only explanation for Hilda's return to human form would be that Hilda's real form was inside this humongous body just like it was with Agatha, but it would have nothing to do with willpower.

Then why did Hilda die? If the head Miria cut was not her real one, Hilda should still be alive.
Unless the battle continued afterwards but that kinda breaks the tone of the situation, don't you think?