Fate/Apocrypha - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Fate/Apocrypha, Episode 23.

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[Nivek von Beldo]

Did they skipped some dialogue of Jeanne and Shakespeare? i think as their convo was more hostile in the novel(specially about her role in the Hundred Year wars?) but how shakespeare played his NP with her memories was slow, specially his love with Sieg.

Modred and Kairi both fall downs as they titans they were, they stole this anime with their roles,well at least mordred found peace before dying

[Twi]

Thanks for the thread!

Okay, so on the episode (review/recap) I really liked the action and revelation that Mordred comes to in the end as the underlying reason for wanting to become king.

Spoiler for For curtosey.:

While her original reaction was out of spite for not being accepted, she decided in her second life she wanted to go back so that she could take that role from Artoria, who couldn't show her any sort of affection or acknowledgement since she couldn't be seen as fallible.

And that fight was beautiful for Semiramis not needing to exert herself from off her throne. It's like watching Gilgamesh at work when not straining himself, with a touch of Medea. How befitting the order to "slay the king" came into play with Mordred as well, living up to her words on knocking her off that throne.

However, the second half was where I have problems. While I did appreciate Jeanne once again affirming that she considers her fate to be one that she walked into willingly and she’s not the Saint others proclaim her to be, her getting caught up in that trap because of her feeling about Sieg kind of pissed me off.

Sieg, I can understand falling for her since she gave him the means to assert his own existence, but why does she feel so badly about him dying as a result since he chose to walk on the battlefield himself like everyone else who followed her banner?

Gilles, I could understand her tripping over. He basically went nuts because of the betrayal and Jeanne’s death, which you could see in how he warped as he spoke with her. Great work there.

But her guilt about Sieg makes her get mind-broken enough to where she's helpless without snapping out of it is weak, even with Karna's warning the last episode.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Twi

Thanks for the thread!

Okay, so on the episode (review/recap) I really liked the action and revelation that Mordred comes to in the end as the underlying reason for wanting to become king.

Spoiler for For curtosey.:

While her original reaction was out of spite for not being accepted, she decided in her second life she wanted to go back so that she could take that role from Artoria, who couldn't show her any sort of affection or acknowledgement since she couldn't be seen as fallible.

And that fight was beautiful for Semiramis not needing to exert herself from off her throne. It's like watching Gilgamesh at work when not straining himself, with a touch of Medea. How befitting the order to "slay the king" came into play with Mordred as well, living up to her words on knocking her off that throne.

However, the second half was where I have problems. While I did appreciate Jeanne once again affirming that she considers her fate to be one that she walked into willingly and she’s not the Saint others proclaim her to be, her getting caught up in that trap because of her feeling about Sieg kind of pissed me off.

Sieg, I can understand falling for her since she gave him the means to assert his own existence, but why does she feel so badly about him dying as a result since he chose to walk on the battlefield himself like everyone else who followed her banner?

Gilles, I could understand her tripping over. He basically went nuts because of the betrayal and Jeanne’s death, which you could see in how he warped as he spoke with her. Great work there.

But her guilt about Sieg makes her get mind-broken enough to where she's helpless without snapping out of it is weak, even with Karna's warning the last episode.

Spoiler for Jeanne:

The reason she feels bad about him is because she's watching someone else walk into the same type of situation she did. And unlike her and her soldiers, he didn't choose it over a peaceful life.

He did choose it instead of a peaceful life, but Jeanne and the others lived normally and chose to fight for the sake of that world. Seig didn't, hasn't, and as her visions tell her, won't. He's never going to have anything at all, burning out his entire life for the sake of others.

Effectively, she's terrified of him becoming the kind of martyr she's been lifted up as.

Also, while I can sort of appreciate Mordred wanting to "save"
Arturia, it feels kind of hollow after Nasu casually reveals even if one or both of them had gotten the Grail nothing would have changed. The sword will never accept anyone but Arturia.

[Kanon]

The best master and the best servant are gone. I'll miss them. At least they both realized what they truly wanted in the end, and were at peace.

I liked the part with Gilles, and how he slowly changed into his Fate/Zero appearance during the conversation.

[Wandering Soul]

Looks like the best servant and master pair kicked the bucket. It wasn't a bad send off though, they defeated their opponent and both were at peace with themselves during their final moments.

[John117xCortana]

When I first saw Modred in the beginning and how she behaved, what happened in the flashbacks....I didn't think highly of her.

But now though after seeing how honest she was with herself...part of me thinks that this version of her might be a good king if she had the chance.

[bakato]

Did Kairi really inject Mordred with an antidote for hydra poison? That's possible? Then why the fuck didn't they do that for Chiron?

[Nivek von Beldo]

Originally Posted by bakato

Did Kairi really inject Mordred with an antidote for hydra poison? That's possible? Then why the fuck didn't they do that for Chiron?

Chiron was already death at that point and the loli reaper poison was other thing

[Twi]

Originally Posted by bakato

Did Kairi really inject Mordred with an antidote for hydra poison? That's possible? Then why the fuck didn't they do that for Chiron?

Remember him screwing around with the Hydra that he got as payment upfront for entering the war, only for Shirou to screw up the drawn lines? Hydra poison is painful enough that Chiron sacrificed his immortality to die just to be rid of it in his legend. Only someone either reckless or immune to poison would mess with it like he does without an antidote.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Nivek von Beldo

Chiron was already death at that point and the loli reaper poison was other thing

Originally Posted by Twi

Remember him screwing around with the Hydra that he got as payment upfront for entering the war, only for Shirou to screw up the drawn lines? Hydra poison is painful enough that Chiron sacrificed his immortality to die just to be rid of it in his legend. Only someone either reckless or immune to poison would mess with it like he does without an antidote.

I know that. What I meant was that if it was possible to create an antidote for hydra poison in the first place, then why didn't anyone do that for Chiron back when he was alive? If even a mage of modern magecraft could do it, then why couldn't the people of the Age of the Gods pull it off?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by bakato

I know that. What I meant was that if it was possible to create an antidote for hydra poison in the first place, then why didn't anyone do that for Chiron back when he was alive? If even a mage of modern magecraft could do it, then why couldn't the people of the Age of the Gods pull it off?

He made the antidote out of the hydra he got. Another minor detail the anime skips.

[belatkuro]

Yeah, the advanced pay he got from Belfeban from signing in this war was hydra parts.
Plus he was brewing the antidote the entire war, since after he summoned Mordred. Even if someone is better than Shishigou in that, it would still take a while to make, something you can't wait for when you have a poison as potent as hydra eating at your body.

[Ruki0089]

I never read novel but... so all this time, since the beginning of this war, Shishigo made some kind of antidote for Hydra's poison?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Ruki0089

I never read novel but... so all this time, since the beginning of this war, Shishigo made some kind of antidote for Hydra's poison?

He made it along with the darts he was making out of its poison.

[HandofFate]

for the crowd favorite Mordred is to some, she sure didn't have much screentime or did much this entire thing

[XFire]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

for the crowd favorite Mordred is to some, she sure didn't have much screentime or did much this entire thing

Favorites rarely do. It's because they only have a few scenes that they can get away with only showing their cool sides, and leave the viewers wanting more.

[MgMaster]

Apocrypha seems to like giving it's servants a good death. Like, even if they don't win, for heroes of old summoned to fight as servants, a death like that is probably one of the best endings they can hope for, besides winning, of course. Still, I'd have loved to see Mordred remain in this world and hang out with Shishigo ~ tho that's not possible unless u win and wish upon it or something is it? Or can you just remain anyway if you'd feed on souls. Like, Gilgamesh stuck 'till the next grail war but he was the last man standing and and I recall he said it was the grail's wish for him to rule again. I didn't exactly get that part as in, if he himself made a wish to remain in our world or the grail just wanted for him to remain.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by MgMaster

Apocrypha seems to like giving it's servants a good death. Like, even if they don't win, for heroes of old summoned to fight as servants, a death like that is probably one of the best endings they can hope for, besides winning, of course. Still, I'd have loved to see Mordred remain in this world and hang out with Shishigo ~ tho that's not possible unless u win and wish upon it or something is it? Or can you just remain anyway if you'd feed on souls. Like, Gilgamesh stuck 'till the next grail war but he was the last man standing and and I recall he said it was the grail's wish for him to rule again. I didn't exactly get that part as in, if he himself made a wish to remain in our world or the grail just wanted for him to remain.

Neither, he got soaked in Grail mud and gained a physical body.

The Grail tried to nom him same as the others but AUO ego is stronk.

Also Gil was eating orphans Kirei kept in the basement.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by MgMaster

Apocrypha seems to like giving it's servants a good death. Like, even if they don't win, for heroes of old summoned to fight as servants, a death like that is probably one of the best endings they can hope for, besides winning, of course. Still, I'd have loved to see Mordred remain in this world and hang out with Shishigo ~ tho that's not possible unless u win and wish upon it or something is it? Or can you just remain anyway if you'd feed on souls. Like, Gilgamesh stuck 'till the next grail war but he was the last man standing and and I recall he said it was the grail's wish for him to rule again. I didn't exactly get that part as in, if he himself made a wish to remain in our world or the grail just wanted for him to remain.

As long as he has a master, a servant doesn't need to win or feed on souls to remain in the real world. I don't remember the details, but Saber stayed around in UBW's good ending without trouble.