Public translations(fansubbers must read) !!!!

[Relentless]

Just to put things in context, maybe it should be mentioned that back in the old VHS fansub days, the ones many old-timers think were more ethic, idealistic, respectful and meaningful, it was not unheard of that fansub groups hired translators for a fee.

In those days (1996-1997), fandom was very small and much like the site everybody used to look for anime information was The Turnpike (anipike.com), there was a mailinf list called TAFMAL (The Anime Fansub Mailing List or something). It'd be wortwhile to look if it was archived somewhere.

From time to time, one could see posts asking for donations to pay for the translation of anime episodes. Rarely, you could see translators offering their services. Average cost for a 25 min. episode were about US$50.00, opening and ending songs were extra. It was believed (or felt) that since translation demanded specific skills and were going to be used in fansubs "freely"* available, it was not wrong nor improper. Even SASE-only guys accepted the practice.

It was also usual in those days that the people who donated to pay the translation were considered "sponsors" of such episode, and their names appear in the credits.

And I could name at least one translator for hire from a fansub group who later became a professional translator for a well known American anime company.

*I used quotes here because one of the most heated debates in the fansub scene was between those who said that fansubs should be available with no money being exchanged, fans should send a self-addressed, self-stamped envelope with blank tapes; and those from the then-new "distro services" that received money to pay for said tapes and postage. It was strongly argued how much distro should charge, whether they should allowed a fee for their time, wear of their equipment, etc. SASE-only guys considered distros as bootleggers unless their prices covered exclusively tapes and postage.

These days, I think the situation is even closer to the spirit of fansubbing, there's absolutely no money involved thanks to on-line distribution.

Sorry if a got carried off-topic. This is my first post in the forum. Nice to meet you all. And BTW I'm not an old geezer, just somebody who still remember VHS fansub days :P

[CrazyFlamer]

I don't see what the problem is. I think it's a great thing that he's willing to translate for other groups. It seems that some people on here thinks he means being the main TL. I look at it this way. Say your a fansub group and lets say you have one TL working on a project, he decideds that he has a life outside of TL and goes for a vaction for a few weeks. Instead of just sitting around waiting why not give this guy a chance? The TL could test his translations before leaving to find out how good they are. He's provideing a service, if he's not good don't use him anymore.

About the donating thing. If you like it donate. Same with BT and same with fansub groups. If you really like them donate something to them for there hardwork every now and then. You don't have a dollar to spare, you don't have to donate. I think I'm pretty lucky to be able to watch so much anime free of charge before it's released here in the states.

There's to many freeloaders in this world. I'm not accuseing anyone here of being a freeloader, I'm just making a statment.

[Shii]

Originally Posted by Relentless

...one of the most heated debates in the fansub scene was between those who said that fansubs should be available with no money being exchanged, fans should send a self-addressed, self-stamped envelope with blank tapes; and those from the then-new "distro services" that received money to pay for said tapes and postage...

Indeed, I searched Google Groups for "TAFMAL" and got:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...E87%40xnet.com

[Enragin_Angel]

I think the reason VHS fansubbers did it in this manner was so they wouldn't step on anyone's toes. Back then when anime wasn't as recognized as it is today, fansubbing only helped the company, but being as illegal as it was(and still is) the anime companies were willing to overlook it because these people were not making profit from their work. Over the years the views and perceptions of this whole process was changed and these "ethics" were forgotten. Sometimes its because these new "kids"(as opposed to old VHS subbers) don't know how the system works so we get an urbanvision fiasco.

Truthfully, if you want to help out by donating money...I think you should just take that money and buy an anime dvd. Fansubbers do their part by making anime known to the world outside of Japan...if you have the money to donate and want to help then you should take that money and go buy some anime merchandise so we can possibly get some more higher budget anime films.

[NinjaServ]

Well, by what this guy is saying he is able to avoid any legal issues and MAKE money legally at the same time (not that I agree with his method), because of the fact giving a TL of something ISN'T illegal. Kind of a dirty scam, but hell, what else is new, scams are all over the net!!!

**PS, if you want to request more feedback by me Paypal me at bitemyshinymetalass@scams.org LOL**

[CompShrink]

I'm in the situation sir canealot described, I have a series in raw, and my translator keeps disapearing on me and thus still has yet to finish the first ep, but if I give you the raw, anyone will have access to the translation, and then other groups would pop up to compete, using the exact same script, with probably only minor edits if any...

If you say, had a delay, that might be more acceptable. Say one month maybe after you give the translation before you post on the site? That would guve at least some margine of security that the sub group that requests your translation won't be replaced.

Oh, and the series I'm subbing has not been released by anyone yet, to the best of my knowledge, and at least isn't on BT.

By the way, making a translation IS ILLEGAL, even JUST THE TEXT, I'd rearched this a while ago, translation is the sole right of the copyright holder, according to US and Berne Convention (aka International) copyright law. "Dirivative works" can also be made only by the creator or copyright holder, so there's no easy loophole around it.

Yeah, *sigh* VHS days were a bit different... I agree though, if you have the money to donate, donate it to the anime company: buy anime dvd/manga.

PS: I didn't mean ToTan by "my group," I'm talking about another group I'm in.

[ff7799]

Originally Posted by CompShrink

I'm in the situation sir canealot described, I have a series in raw, and my translator keeps disapearing on me and thus still has yet to finish the first ep, but if I give you the raw, anyone will have access to the translation, and then other groups would pop up to compete, using the exact same script, with probably only minor edits if any...

If you say, had a delay, that might be more acceptable. Say one month maybe after you give the translation before you post on the site? That would guve at least some margine of security that the sub group that requests your translation won't be replaced.

Oh, and the series I'm subbing has not been released by anyone yet, to the best of my knowledge, and at least isn't on BT.

By the way, making a translation IS ILLEGAL, even JUST THE TEXT, I'd rearched this a while ago, translation is the sole right of the copyright holder, according to US and Berne Convention (aka International) copyright law. "Dirivative works" can also be made only by the creator or copyright holder, so there's no easy loophole around it.

Yeah, *sigh* VHS days were a bit different... I agree though, if you have the money to donate, donate it to the anime company: buy anime dvd/manga.

PS: I didn't mean ToTan by "my group," I'm talking about another group I'm in.

Actually my intention was to release translations to the public once the group they were provide by had released their episode, that way if someone else release a episode using my public database then they couldn't say they were first to do it, by doing this though it will ensure that all groups have a fairr chance to make better quality epiosdes I mean because I have had to rush many times, the quality of my episodes were not always the best however by doing this people can decide if they want to watch my release or wait for someone else and I plan to release translations a day after a group has released their episodes online that way anime fans won't have to wait long, I mean I know everyone is competing however I'am just really a anime fan at heart and I know how hard fansubbers must work being that I am one of them however I also know what its like to be a bitching fan waiting for a episode to be released just to discover that the quality sucks, because of this people will now have more choice but at the same time groups releasing the translations will also have a day to get credit and the fact is the real fans will download the episode the day its released. I hope you see my logic in doing this because their is a much larger plan here, by getting translations for numerous series and ollder series, we'll get a chance to see some of the classics return, like urusei yatsura, I hope to eventually create a large fansubbing database that anyone can add their translations to and other groups can go their download their work and provide us with newer and better quality releases. Infact by doing this I will soon have to worlds largest archive, hahahah

[JAppi]

That's very good! I wish more groups did that!

[maxthelostboy]

i think thats a great idea too! Then we can have smaller newer groups taking on the older series noone will ever bother touching.
If you build it up where you have loads of anime scripts on archive i think your site will be visted alot by new fan sub groups. I thinking doing the classic and new animes noone subs would be a great way to kick off.

[PocariSweat]

I could see something like a "translation exchange program" set up where a group first has to donate a script of their own before getting access to one of the scripts in the bank. Or after donating a script, they can get a translator "commissioned" to work on one for some other show. This would limit it to only serious subbers, and maybe after some time archived scripts could finally be made public.

This way groups could distribute the translation work a bit and everyone would eventually benefit. Fansubs have come a *long* way - I know sometimes I wish I could use the fansub translations in place of the "professional" DVD ones. You can tell the best fansubbers are fans themselves - often they'll go that extra mile (like translating signs and other background stuff).

[ff7799]

Originally Posted by PocariSweat

I could see something like a "translation exchange program" set up where a group first has to donate a script of their own before getting access to one of the scripts in the bank. Or after donating a script, they can get a translator "commissioned" to work on one for some other show. This would limit it to only serious subbers, and maybe after some time archived scripts could finally be made public.

This way groups could distribute the translation work a bit and everyone would eventually benefit. Fansubs have come a *long* way - I know sometimes I wish I could use the fansub translations in place of the "professional" DVD ones. You can tell the best fansubbers are fans themselves - often they'll go that extra mile (like translating signs and other background stuff).

This is exactly my point, Man when I'am done people are going to be amazed, this public database will now allow fansubbers to release anime series at even faster rates. and like I said before their would be a negotiation meaning groups can request one of super subbers translators or even another group willing to participate to translate a series and in return they will give up a translated series of their own well episodes it doesn't have to be whole series but I'am going to try and milk each group as best as I can, because to be honest once a group releases a episode they delete their translation and all that hard work goes bye bye, but now they have a much better option, they can actually turn around and help out other groups.