Nisemonogatari - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

TL;DR…

 

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I understand your point, but that's about the worst example you could use to illustrate it
I wouldn't considering shipping discussions /wars superior to fanservice discussions. There's a reason shipping threads were banned in several subforums in the first place.

And I'll say it once again: it's just one episode.

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There have been interesting discussions the previous weeks. There's no need to blow of fuse over the fact an episode and thereby the ensuing discussion focused on a very funny and erotic fanservice scene (honestly, what exactly did you want us to talk about here? Which topic would have been acceptable to you?), especially when comments from the author that were posted a while ago and reactions from novel readers should have been enough to reassure you the toothbrush scene represents the pinnacle of fanservice in the Monogatari series. I haven't read the novel so I'm not 100% sure, but from what I can surmise, we'll never see something like this ever again.

Another thing you seem to overlook is that this wasn't just an average fanservice scene. It was a freaking hilarious one thanks to overexaggeration of the characters' feelings and the whole ridiculousness of the situation. Now, obviously, you didn't find it funny. That's fine. And I'm sorry, even if you don't see it, this episode did develop the plot a bit, in this case Karen and Koyomi's relationship, who by Koyomi's own admission, has grown closer. This is mostly what this season is about: Koyomi's sisters and his relationship with them.

And you are taking our comments and ratings WAY too seriously. Chill. Most of us -I think- including me were just exaggerating for fun. In doing so, it appears we have unintentionally (although to be honest, I was very much looking forward to the outrage, but I didn't expect it'd go so far) trolled you hard. I apologize for that. I certainly don't think this is the best episode of the year nor even the best of the series, yet in the heat of the moment I found it appropriate to rate it 10/10 since the toothbrush scene was something never before seen in anime and it really made me laugh my ass off.

One last thing. You say we don't appreciate where the dissenters are coming from (which is not entirely true), yet I sincerely don't feel you appreciate where we are coming from either.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

There were some things just not meant to be seen, like this episode. Now where’s my toothbrush?

Toothbrush redifined...

This is a useful tool, commonly found in the range of 6 inches long, the functioning of which is enjoyed by members of both sexes. It is usually found hung, dangling loosely, ready for instant action. It boasts of a clump of little hairy things at one end
and a small hole at the other. In use, it is quickly inserted, almost always willingly, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, into a warm, fleshy, moist opening where it is thrust in and drawn out again and again many times in succession, often quickly and accompanied by squirming bodily movements. Anyone found listening in will most surely recognize the rhythmic, pulsing sound resulting from the well-lubricated movements. When finally withdrawn, it leaves behind a juicy, frothy, sticky white substance, some of which will need cleaning from the outer surfaces of the opening and some from its long glistening shaft. After everything is done and the flowing and cleansing liquids have ceased emanating, it is returned to its freely hanging state of rest, ready for yet another bit of action, hopefully reaching its bristling climax twice or three times a day, but often much less. What is it?

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I understand your point, but that's about the worst example you could use to illustrate it
I wouldn't considering shipping discussions /wars superior to fanservice discussions. There's a reason shipping threads were banned in several subforums in the first place.

Still better than the same old "Hnnnnng" spam. Which isn't a discussion... tbh. Shipping wars were actual discussions, but in the past that got out of hand that led people to commit ad hominen attacks on each other because they couldn't control themselves. Thankfully, the Aquarion thread hasn't turned into that (yet). Anyways I'm not crusading to have shipping war discussions to be un-banned here, so I'll leave it at that. Btw I'm not saying Aquarion is a great anime or anything necessarily.

And I'll say it once again: it's just one episode.

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Really? I recall episode 2 being almost entirely dedicated to Nadeko and Kanbaru fanservice. Luckily the short section between Araragi and Karen prevented it from being me placing in it the trash. I also recall episode 4 being entirely dedicated to a bathing scene with Araragi and Shinobu, though I didn't mind as much since the dialogue was somewhat interesting and we got to know a bit more about Araragi's and Shinobu' past (short teaser of what's to come in the Kizumonogatari anime). So there we go, 3 out of 8 episodes dedicated to almost entirely fanservice. Much more than the "one episode" you're claiming.

There have been interesting discussions the previous weeks. There's no need to blow of fuse over the fact an episode and thereby the ensuing discussion focused on a very funny and erotic fanservice scene (honestly, what exactly did you want us to talk about here? Which topic would have been acceptable to you?), especially when comments from the author that were posted a while ago and reactions from novel readers should have been enough to reassure you the toothbrush scene represents the pinnacle of fanservice in the Monogatari series. I haven't read the novel so I'm not 100% sure, but from what I can surmise, we'll never see something like this ever again.

Let me quote something I wrote a few pages back:

"I don't give a rat's ass about whether or not one LN was more/less fanservice centric compared to each other or in their animated adaptations".

I have not, and do not intend to read any of the Monogatari LNs. Hence I did not nor do I care whether this was in the LN or how this episode amplified it. Let's not assume everyone has read the LN here and PLEASE not go into this faithful adaptation = good anime again, cause I had enough of that shiz in regards to Persona 4. This episode was plain offensive to me and a few others in its content and how much it took over the episode and that's that.

Another thing you seem to overlook is that this wasn't just an average fanservice scene. It was a freaking hilarious one thanks to overexaggeration of the characters' feelings and the whole ridiculousness of the situation. Now, obviously, you didn't find it funny. That's fine. And I'm sorry, even if you don't see it, this episode did develop the plot a bit, in this case Karen and Koyomi's relationship, who by Koyomi's own admission, has grown closer. This is mostly what this season is about: Koyomi's sisters and his relationship with them.

Neither is Aquarion or Mawaru Penguindrum back when it was airing. Did people make a huge fuss and be defensive about it when dissenters criticized it (in regards to its fan-service)?

And you are taking our comments and ratings WAY too seriously. Chill. Most of us including me were just exaggerating for fun. In doing so, it appears we have unintentionally (although to be honest, I was very much looking forward to the outrage, but I didn't expect it'd go so far) trolled you hard. I apologize for that. I certainly don't think this is the best episode of the year nor even the best of the series, yet in the heat of the moment I found it appropriate to rate it 10/10 since the toothbrush scene was something never before seen in anime and it really made me laugh my ass off.

Don't buy it. The fact that there were several people getting defensive and even angry about not "celebrating" the episode as if we were some party crashers rebutes the argument that people were merely trolling. Some were dead serious.


Anyways, I'm done. I'm not gonna exaggerate and go drop this series over this episode or anything, but I do think I have expected too much from the franchise as I was expecting more in line with Bakemonogatari. I am however optimistic enough that the next few episodes will develop Tsukihi's character and her issues.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

http://www.ota-suke.jp/news/65338
The entire sound recording was method acting; the voice actress was getting her teeth brush through out the whole scene. According to her, it felt good.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

http://www.ota-suke.jp/news/65338
The entire sound recording was method acting; the voice actress was getting her teeth brush through out the whole scene. According to her, it felt good.

If it turns out Kamiya was doing it for her.......

[DragoZERO]

I always thought it would be an awkward recording session, but I didn't think it'd be that interesting.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by omimon

If it turns out Kamiya was doing it for her.......

If the actual scene wasn't enough already, now this image has to go along with it.

[ImperialX]

Originally Posted by jeroz

just curious, if it's hitagi or kanbaru that's on the receiving side of the toothbrushing would it be better for you guys?

No. No it would't have.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

-- Triple_r's argument is Shallow
-- You refute it by saying they did it LIKE A BOSS
-- So what's the argument here that makes yours deeper, lol. That's just making your own assertion and claiming his is wrong. You have 2 different opinions. And so...?

You missed the point by a mile The counter-argument was "even if it has been done to death, you should still try to do it better". For example, Evangelion had a lot of clichè, but it was still able to stood out among the rest of mecha anime. There are many fanservice anime out there? Is this a reason not to accept the challenge? A scene written almost three years ago was still be able to generate such reactions despite the many ero-anime newcomers, and probably years later you will still remember Nise just for it. That's being a BOSS for you

Abridged version? Are you implying that he's only seen abridged parodies? Sorry, I can confirm someone's seen the anime. If you're saying the anime version is the abridged version of the novel, then sure we'll wait for it to unfold. I don't anyone said anything about it being dropped.

Yeah, I'm talking about the novels. There were running gags that were almost always written out, like Senjougahara being bisexual, Kanbaru wanting to strip or Araragi trying to touch Hanekawa's breasts. Granted the Nise progressively got more extreme, but the transition between the adaptation of Bake and the adaptation of Nise was not as smooth as in the novels.

By the way, even small details were left out. For example Senjougahara reads every kind of book, and Tsukihi is in the tea club because she likes to wear kimono.

Uh, subforums were made to reduce clutter and create a better sense of organization.

Of course, every rules is not without exception. There are also wannabe opinion-leaders dispensing their slatings left and right, and genuine fans who are displeased with certain parts of the series. If you look at the poll for each episode though, and see that 2/3 of the votes are higher than 7, it doesn't take much to notice a simple fact: in this forum there are mostly people who support the series. It is naive to not realize so, and dishonest to pretend otherwise.

Pro Tip: Internet psychiatry is not an occupation. Do you just realize you spent half of that asserting you and (a majority-- of this subforum) is right. It's nice that you think that there must be something wrong with people that disagree with you. Perhaps you really need to stop dismissing other people so easily, thinking of that, then maybe the other side will listen more.

And are you not doing internet psychiatry in saying this?

In the end there are only two fair ways to decide who is right:
1) Arguments.
2) Majority vote.

If you think someone is wrong, then it's arguments. If you say every opinion must be respected, than it's majority vote. At this point though the minority must accept the verdict and speak like a minority. That's all there is to it.

The problem is not me. The problem is people talking of Nise 8 like it wasn't received it well, which is patently false and dishonest. It must be accepted that most people here rated this episode very high as a premise in whatever it is said. This is intellectual honesty.

On my part I readily acknowledge that there are, currently, 6 people who voted 1, plus 9 votes below 6. Yeah, there have been some extreme negative opinions, even (or especially) from people who liked Bakemonogatari. I even think dissenting people must have their champions too.

Anyway, in this forum where most people like Bake it was exactly these people the one who proved this episode was outrageous

Outrageous:
-provoking outrage
-outside the bounds of good taste
-immoderate
-extravagant

Why exactly does he have to change his viewpoint and you don't possibly consider you need to change yours?

When in Rome, do as the Romans do, they say

I also can't believe you said using a civil tone does not matter. Well, I'll tell you this. It does.

Less than what you think. People reply to trolls as much as they do to legit posts. Of course, it's nice to be nice, I'm not saying otherwise. It's just that "dissenting opinion" was the keyword here.

Edit: On a lighter note, there's a reason Tomino would diss his own shows. And that was because he's pretty infamous as one of the most bipolar anime directors of all time.

No, Tomino likes Gundam. He just doesn't like keep doing Gundam. In the interview in the end he gets tired of his act and just flat out states Gundam is great. Anyway, in Japan when someone says "Your wife is beautiful" you have to reply "No, it's not. She looks like a cow". Not kidding!

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

You missed the point by a mile The counter-argument was "even if it has been done to death, you should still try to do it better". For example, Evangelion had a lot of clichè, but it was still able to stood out among the rest of mecha anime. There are many fanservice anime out there? Is this a reason not to accept the challenge? A scene written almost three years ago was still be able to generate such reactions despite the many ero-anime newcomers, and probably years later you will still remember Nise just for it. That's being a BOSS for you

That's what you've been asserting. But that's simply just an assertion and hardly fact. I'm sure I'll remember this thread a few years from now. But eh perhaps it is a bit too fast to make such predictions for the future?

Yea, I can understand that not all cliches are bad, but is that anything that hasn't been seen yet? However, at least this sounds better since I have some slightly more concrete evidence of said bossness

Yeah, I'm talking about the novels. There were running gags that were almost always written out, like Senjougahara being bisexual, Kanbaru wanting to strip or Araragi trying to touch Hanekawa's breasts. Granted the Nise progressively got more extreme, but the transition between the adaptation of Bake and the adaptation of Nise was not as smooth as in the novels.

By the way, even small details were left out. For example Senjougahara reads every kind of book, and Tsukihi is in the tea club because she likes to wear kimono.

Well, who's fault is that? If there was a problem with the adaptation, is it the viewer's?

Of course, every rules is not without exception. There are also wannabe opinion-leaders dispensing their slatings left and right, and genuine fans who are displeased with certain parts of the series. If you look at the poll for each episode though, and see that 2/3 of the votes are higher than 7, it doesn't take much to notice a simple fact: in this forum there are mostly people who support the series. It is naive to not realize so, and dishonest to pretend otherwise.

Thanks for cutting out the next part of my statement which coincidentally already has what I think about that. This seems to be a frequent problem on your end, and if you keep doing this I recommend you quote the entirety of my post, because I'm not really sure who's being dishonest here.

So let me answer with what I already said:

While it is self-evident that fans are going to be interested in it. However, because discussion is confined here, everyone that watches this will come here and not everyone is going to be fawning over it. There's people that appreciate the series but not all of it you know. Regardless if someone likes it or not, they have to come here if they want to discuss.

And are you not doing internet psychiatry in saying this?



In the end there are only two fair ways to decide who is right:
1) Arguments.
2) Majority vote.

If you think someone is wrong, then it's arguments. If you say every opinion must be respected, than it's majority vote. At this point though the minority must accept the verdict and speak like a minority. That's all there is to it.

The problem is not me. The problem is people talking of Nise 8 like it wasn't received it well, which is patently false and dishonest. It must be accepted that most people here rated this episode very high as a premise in whatever it is said. This is intellectual honesty.

On my part I readily acknowledge that there are, currently, 6 people who voted 1, plus 9 votes below 6. Yeah, there have been some extreme negative opinions, even (or especially) from people who liked Bakemonogatari. I even think dissenting people must have their champions too.

Anyway, in this forum where most people like Bake it was exactly these people the one who proved this episode was outrageous

Outrageous:
-provoking outrage
-outside the bounds of good taste
-immoderate
-extravagant

No, because I personally don't care about your motivations for writing your posts, nor am I making assumptions about errors in your viewpoint or there is something wrong with it, nor am I making any insinuations like you did with the person you replied to. I really don't care what in your life got you here. I simply disagree with the way you present your point. If you can say the same about your replies, then fine, tone isn't always detectable on the internet.

Basically, I have no intention of "fixing" anyone.

So, who said this episode wasn't received well? Does anyone deny the results of the poll? I would disagree with them too. But who are you talking about?

Less than what you think. People reply to trolls as much as they do to legit posts. Of course, it's nice to be nice, I'm not saying otherwise. It's just that "dissenting opinion" was the keyword here.

Well, maybe they shouldn't reply to trolls? I consider any post that bashes people for rating it high just as bad as a post that bashes people for rating it low.

No, Tomino likes Gundam. He just doesn't like keep doing Gundam. In the interview in the end he gets tired of his act and just flat out states Gundam is great. Anyway, in Japan when someone says "Your wife is beautiful" you have to reply "No, it's not. She looks like a cow". Not kidding!

Of course he loves Gundam. Just not when he is off his meds and starts taking the hammer to his cast to end it. :3

Originally Posted by Kanon

I understand your point, but that's about the worst example you could use to illustrate it
I wouldn't considering shipping discussions /wars superior to fanservice discussions. There's a reason shipping threads were banned in several subforums in the first place.

And I'll say it once again: it's just one episode.

O
N
E

E
P
I
S
O
D
E

There have been interesting discussions the previous weeks. There's no need to blow of fuse over the fact an episode and thereby the ensuing discussion focused on a very funny and erotic fanservice scene (honestly, what exactly did you want us to talk about here? Which topic would have been acceptable to you?), especially when comments from the author that were posted a while ago and reactions from novel readers should have been enough to reassure you the toothbrush scene represents the pinnacle of fanservice in the Monogatari series. I haven't read the novel so I'm not 100% sure, but from what I can surmise, we'll never see something like this ever again.

I agree it's only one episode too, and not representative of the whole series. I hope you will just let them not like this one episode though and realize it'll blow over soon enough.

On another unrelated note, I like Nise better but Bake may have been more consistent. (I think that may be considered even more disagreeable for both sides. )

[Candyshark]

Interesting clip when Gackt's name start to float I remembered there was a clip with him where he stated he loves to shoves toothbrush as deep as possible. So he was originator for Nisio idea? Personally not going to test anything.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

http://www.ota-suke.jp/news/65338 The entire sound recording was method acting; the voice actress was getting her teeth brush through out the whole scene. According to her, it felt good.

Lol. Great stuff. I think she implied she was holding the toothbrush herself, but I'm not sure.

And I have to name "the voice actress": Kitamura Eri, the 24-year-old pro who is a good cartoonist (second only to Inoue Marina among seiyuus) and is so much known as an otaku that her nickname of KitaEri is sometimes changed to OtaEri. She has been Tatiana in Last Exile (both shows), Saya in Blood+, Sayaka in MadoMagi, etc., etc.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Really? I recall episode 2 being almost entirely dedicated to Nadeko and Kanbaru fanservice. Luckily the short section between Araragi and Karen prevented it from being me placing in it the trash. I also recall episode 4 being entirely dedicated to a bathing scene with Araragi and Shinobu, though I didn't mind as much since the dialogue was somewhat interesting and we got to know a bit more about Araragi's and Shinobu' past (short teaser of what's to come in the Kizumonogatari anime). So there we go, 3 out of 8 episodes dedicated to almost entirely fanservice. Much more than the "one episode" you're claiming.

Episode two is debatable, but episode 4 was most definitely not only about fanservice. Yes, there was fanservice, but it's Monogatari after all, that's par for the course. As you said, Koyomi and Shinobu's dialogues were interesting (I'd even say very interesting) and we learned more about their past, so fanservice was not the primary focus like in ep 8. I definitely wouldn't put ep 4 and 8 in the same bag.

Let me quote something I wrote a few pages back:

"I don't give a rat's ass about whether or not one LN was more/less fanservice centric compared to each other or in their animated adaptations".

I have not, and do not intend to read any of the Monogatari LNs. Hence I did not nor do I care whether this was in the LN or how this episode amplified it. Let's not assume everyone has read the LN here and PLEASE not go into this faithful adaptation = good anime again, cause I had enough of that shiz in regards to Persona 4. This episode was plain offensive to me and a few others in its content and how much it took over the episode and that's that.

Hmm, you seem to have completely missed my point. All I was saying was that from I could surmise from the comments of Nisio (who made it very clear he wrote Nise as his private fap material (pretty much), as opposed to the other novels which he wrote with a professional mind) and the LNs readers (who know what will happen in the next series), the toothbrush scene was the height of fanservice in the series, so you needn't fear it will get worse in the future. I was trying to reassure you!

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Don't buy it. The fact that there were several people getting defensive and even angry about not "celebrating" the episode as if we were some party crashers rebutes the argument that people were merely trolling. Some were dead serious.


Anyways, I'm done. I'm not gonna exaggerate and go drop this series over this episode or anything, but I do think I have expected too much from the franchise as I was expecting more in line with Bakemonogatari. I am however optimistic enough that the next few episodes will develop Tsukihi's character and her issues.

Oh, I'm sure some were completely serious. That's why I said "most of us" and added a "I think". I believe there are not that much people who think this is the best thing ever, and even if they do, I don't mind. To each their own. And I stand by what I said: don't take it all too seriously, even if your "opponents" do. We're debating about an anime, not the holocaust (Godwin GET!)

Anyway, I'm glad you won't drop the series because of this. That would have been a hasty and rash decision. Hopefully, you'll enjoy the rest of the season more than this ep.

[Marcus H.]

@DemiSoda's mentioning of shipping wars in Aquarion EVOL threads

That's not better, actually. Shipping wars has a bigger tendency to spark hostility.
And besides, TOOTHBRUSH has been the most antitipicated scene throughout Nisemonogatari, even before Episode 1 even aired.

[Hiroi Sekai]

Everyone's actually handling this quite well. Good on you, this is why I like these forums.

I won't fuel any potential fires-in-waiting, so I say we take Kanon's good word on the fact that it'll be just one episode and move on. It was just a moment that the writer put in that didn't exactly sit well with some of us, that's all.

Let's save the mods and admins the trouble and just stop beating this dead horse. Don't even reach for that stick, it'd be pointless.

[apr]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

And I have to name "the voice actress": Kitamura Eri, the 24-year-old pro who is a good cartoonist (second only to Inoue Marina among seiyuus) and is so much known as an otaku that her nickname of KitaEri is sometimes changed to OtaEri.

She's been renamed KitaEro now, though.

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by apr

She's been renamed KitaEro now, though.

lawl

[Tempest35]

Originally Posted by apr

She's been renamed KitaEro now, though.

I wonder how many toothbrushes will be stuffed into her mailbox now...

And wow, she's cute too...*sigh*

[Cosmic Eagle]

I love this ep....



Anyway, this show is 12 eps?

Can't believe they'll squeeze Tsukihi Phoenix into 5 eps...

[Hiroi Sekai]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

I love this ep....



Anyway, this show is 12 eps?

Can't believe they'll squeeze Tsukihi Phoenix into 5 eps...

It's actually 11 episodes. That added to my initial worries.