2009-06-19, 09:25 | Link #141 |
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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You cannot judge anything that's being covered up correctly. It's why courts need proper and true evidence to pass the appropriate judgment. Layfon hid the truth and was dealt accordingly. And the circumstances I mentioned was him being made a military artist by the president, which would result in him fighting even if Nina never even saw him once. She already cares about what others think, (see Dinn eps and how she dealt with him) she just didn't want to work together with someone who was apparently against the things she held sacred. She had the right for that as a superior but Layfon's deceit was uncovered and she dropped the matter. The logical course of things.
Huh? Kei-Ra cannon? What are you talking about now? You should be aware that she was under complete control of haikizoku? Do you remember that she was possessed against her will? Let's not make up the events to our convenience as we go along please. Lianne was wrong as Layfon was and Felli is, refusing to accept the gravity of their situation and avoiding responsibility is what's causing them and the people around them trouble. |
2009-06-19, 09:56 | Link #142 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Layfon was appointed by the president but it was Layfon's misfortune to be picked under her. Despite with all of his heroic feats he already did he misjudged her (which I had stated several pages prior), which up until now she absolutely pales in comparison.
The squad being in the trouble they are right now is because of her hiding her secret. Leerin is there remember? And again you bringing Felli into the picture, so I'll play Long.Felli represents character individuality who refused being used despite being someone gifted with exceptional powers. Some call this selfish, while the rest call this the 'free will' or 'freedom of right'. Regardless what her motives and intentions are, she has proven to be a good soldier who had perfomed all her duties admirably as proven from ep 7 to ep 23. Pales in comparison of what Nina brings, trouble. |
2009-06-19, 09:59 | Link #143 | |
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Alice was never forceful like Nina. Nowhere near. She also tried her best to understand the people who worked with her, instead of assuming they all wanted the same thing, then got pissed off and emo, when she found out they didn't. She was a lot more mature, and easier to get a long with. From the get-go, Nina forced herself on Layfon. Forced her ideals and beliefs on him. Never once did she try and crack his shell and see where he was coming from. Then, when she finds out something about his past that she didn't like, she goes and tells him they can't be in the same squad now. He had already proven himself and saved her life, the squad's lives, other civilian's lives, as well as the existence of the city. 95% of what she's done, has turned me off to her. I can't even recall Alice ever doing anything that made me dislike her. |
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2009-06-19, 11:00 | Link #144 | ||||||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
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Age: 40
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Alice literally drove them around in her crusade and yeah, they were all military members so they had to face up to their responsibilities. They still whined about it all the time. What they want or not isn't and shouldn't be her concern as long as they were motivated enough to perform their duties and obey her orders, that's what a military officer is and that's how Nina does as well. She at times got over her head and it's only thanks to Randel intervening that they got off without getting themselves killed. Randel wants to stay away from all those things like Layfon does but Alice is the person that constantly has him placed in all those dangerous situations, just like Nina does. Both of them motivate the lead males because they're aware that it's what suits them and voila! It really is and they come to accept that after all the refusals! And I have already said it many times before, right like above but again: He deceived her into such a situation and she questioned him thoroughly to leave no doubt. She couldn't have known that, others except Felli were deceived as well yet I don't see anyone blaming them for that. He already was an enigma, hiding his power and acting suspiciously over and over. As soon as Felli explains his act to them, she reforms her stance about the matter which is as good as it can get. I'm not trying to make anyone like Nina, but the shared traits are as close as it can get for these three characters and Nina is like a bridge connecting the others by having common stuff from both. That doesn't necessarily make them all the same but they're as close as it can get without being copy-cats. |
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2009-06-19, 11:32 | Link #145 | ||||
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2009-06-19, 12:06 | Link #146 | ||||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
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OTOH, Nina hid a secret that would bring trouble if it wasn't kept a secret and as we see, for understandable reasons. Ignasis, Grendan, mercenary company, everyone's out looking for the host and they don't pull any punches. Quote:
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2009-06-19, 12:09 | Link #147 |
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Lol...seriously TrueKnight: You think about Nina as some kind of machine...well we're speaking about a character that included in visual and written mediums too so let's not forget the LN Nina. She's less bitchy and more considerate in the them...somehow the anime managed to degrade every character(It's ok if they're cutting out scenes...but adding meaningless things?). Anyways if we speak about Alice in Pumpkin Scissors made worse and similary reckless decisions. The differences lies elsewhere: She acts more feminine and noble-like(not to mention that no one ever mistook her gender).
Last edited by willyvereb; 2009-06-19 at 12:42. |
2009-06-19, 12:16 | Link #148 | ||||
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2009-06-19, 12:31 | Link #149 | |||||
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2009-06-19, 12:56 | Link #150 | |||||
Disputatio exaro nex
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Turkey
Age: 40
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You seem to be ignoring what I wrote whatsoever and go as far as bending the events rather than replying now. So I'll make use of some bold to highlight so those won't escape any eyes.
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As for your claims about Nina, you have got nothing to back it up. You're constantly avoiding logical explanations and just blame everything on her. I don't like Felli but I'm not trying to load all the blame for everything on her, she's only responsible for what she did and wants to do on her own free will. So it looks more and more like you're making stuff up just for the sake or your argument. Sorry but it has become too apparent in this last page, like others noted. |
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2009-06-19, 12:57 | Link #151 | ||||||||||
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Ahem, responding to Ultramarinus, Quote:
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Last edited by TrueKnight; 2009-06-19 at 13:10. |
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2009-06-19, 15:32 | Link #152 |
Mad Scientist #0000
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Sorry...but we could blame everyone with this mindset...
For example: Felli needlessly kicks Layfon whatever she feels pissed...why? Why she can't deal with it. Because of her circumstances...Layfon states himself always as a villian and perhaps everyone misunderstood him...why? Because he thinks negatively about himself...(or again) Felli argues with Layfon while he needs her help in ep 5...she endangers the people's life with that needless chatter...why? Because her circumstances and personality. Then Layfon everexerts himself without thinking about the others...result: Felli's collapse...why? Because his reasons. Everyone of those actions were selfish...everyone acts selfish in a way and most of them never apologises for it. Why don't you let Nina act a bit selfish? You should be the personalification of Nina's Self-hatred Because she thinks that too what you said about her and hates herself every time when she does anything that relatively selfish or she (directly indirectly) couses something or endangers someone. Last edited by willyvereb; 2009-06-19 at 16:09. |
2009-06-19, 16:17 | Link #153 | ||||||
Disputatio exaro nex
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Exactly, I'll go ahead and make people responsible for things in the same way: - Nina ended up that way because Layfon resisted the goat! - Nina ended up that way because Layfon sent her to goat! - Nina got kidnapped because Leerin brought Savaris to be able to just see her beloved Layfon, the selfish girl! - Platoon 17 is threatened by kei-ra cannon because Leerin holds to biggest bait for Ignasis, bringing all those monsters to Czellni! See, you can pull stuff out of nowhere and blame people if you pull enough strings to make up facts. That's why we should remain strictly on what people did based on what they knew and their own will. Otherwise it becomes a big, senseless mess. |
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2009-06-19, 16:52 | Link #154 |
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Nina's thread is always a mess lol
If you ask me i think that all 3 are selfish girl but anyone for different reason. Nina want more power for protect what she want, involving other people for his desire; Felli found someone that understand her, so help that person until can, never mind the other, and want that person look only her; Leerin want only stay with Layfon, and does anything because this happen, never mind all those who knows and has known, as the children at the orphanage or her foster father, using her understanding of his past as an excuse for all. One of motive that i prefer Nina is because her selfish isn't something which has layfon as reason, but is really for herself. And well, Mayshen... yeah... Mayshen is moe... really really moe... but... for me is pretty annoying But well anyone have his reason her for be a fan of someone so calm down a little
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2009-06-19, 21:29 | Link #155 | ||||||
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And I still stand on such previous argument. Quote:
And once again I ask you. What are the facts already happened? Nina screwed up. She brought trouble. But were there remedies, yes. Quote:
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You argue nothing could be done about it, well I’ve stated the possible remedies. |
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2009-06-19, 23:49 | Link #156 | |||||
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- Arrived at Zuellni, during this has his motive of survival;- His motive was more about running away than anything else.
- Beat squad 16, during this has his motive of survival; False. He was certainly not at risk but Nina was. He jumped into help her not for survival. - Saved the city in ep 5, during this has his motive of survival; False. He was going to run away at first per his survival instincts until Nina verbally beat him into reconsidering his actions. He then went because of his friends. - Fighting the dragon in ep 7 saving the city again, during this has his motive of survival; -This had more to do with the President blackmailing him than anything else but I'll give you survival here. Though you fail to mention that the rest of the Platoon came to help him out once they found out. - Fighting Gorneo and co, during this has his motive of survival; -Not really. Gorneo was out for revenge and Layfon mostly just want to show him that he wasn't such a bad guy. If it was about survival killing Gorneo would have been the best opinion. - Conducting surveillance to the Goat City; during this has his motive of survival; -Wasn't just he doing his job? - Confront Nina, his past exposed, stood by his ideals and during this has his motive of survival -More like he tried to hide behind these ideals as a way to excuse his actions in the past. Either way though this certainly has nothing to do with survival. Whether he stood by them or recanted them Nina wasn't going to kill him. - Confront Shante and Gorneo who probably intends to kill him, beat them off, but he spared them, during this has his motive of survival; -I only remember one fight between these guys as I stated earlier. My past statement still holds true. - Ep 12 – ep 15, during these periods he has his motive of survival; No not at all. I don't know where you even pulled this one out of. Dinn's arc had nothing to do with Layfon's survival philosophy. Quote:
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You've not stated any remedies to this situation. You've used the word a lot but little beyond that.
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2009-06-20, 00:30 | Link #157 | ||||||||||||||
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But it was all in the past. In Grendan, he had been duly punished. Post Grendan he did nothing but positive feats. Quote:
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With these, I still stand on my previous statements. Quote:
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2009-06-20, 01:36 | Link #158 | ||||
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You'll need to define what you mean by a "survival" motive. You seem to be trying to hide behind the vagueness of that term. To me it means that he would do anything illegal and immoral to ensure his own and things he cares about survival. We see him do this is with Gorneo but he was of course just acting to show that he's not like that anymore. We see him also almost doing it during the battle with the FM as it immoral to allow the city to be destroyed when you have to power to stop it or let a comrade be beaten because you feel like hiding your true strength.
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2009-06-20, 02:06 | Link #159 | ||||||
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2009-06-20, 03:31 | Link #160 | |||||
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K. Basically I don't see your point. We're in agreement that his philosophy in Grendan was messed up and thankfully he grew and change it. This doesn't really change the fact no one has a problem with his "current" philosophy as "willing to do illegal/immoral things" and not is a significant change to a philosophy.
Also your argument for this was that he had no screw-ups but here you admit that Nina keeps him in check. So doesn't that mean you understand that if she didn't then he could possibly screw up? I think then you'd agree that she was wise to be concerned and take action. Quote:
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