2014-09-22, 11:30 | Link #10601 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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you forgot something...about phantom, and possibility of the existence of other (original) timeline from which phantom originated from, and her connection with shidou plus her motivation which maybe because some bad ending in that (original) timeline
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2014-09-22, 12:24 | Link #10603 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
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I like how phantom has been show a bit more in this volume especially that line she said to shido, I really hope this confirms that she does not plan anything bad for shido, but i expect will see more conflict between phantom and Wescott as it seem they know about each other
By the way does anyone think that theses a possibility that her true form mite be a older version of Rinne. |
2014-09-22, 12:32 | Link #10604 |
Where are the good animes
Join Date: Dec 2003
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It's not how Origami received her Sephira crystal in the new timeline, but when.
When original timeline Origami attacked Phantom 5 years ago, she can pretty much know who she gave the crystal to in the future with some little investigation. So by deduction, it was sometime near the end of her AST years since that's when she started "blacking" out and was forced to retire. |
2014-09-22, 13:47 | Link #10605 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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A point is that the author uses a fixed timeline instead of multiple timeline
as his approach. It's not a parallel world scenario. What was done, by the combined efforts of Kurumi and Shidou, is throwing away the "original world". What actually happen, IMHO, is by somehow they managed to reduce the original world to a "virtual timeline", which can't be existed along with the 'new world' at the same time, but there're still same ways to make it consistent. One of them is by altering/rationing this world as "dream" - you just had a bad dream in with Origami wreaking havoc the world, then you wake up and nothing happened. Since it's a dream most people will forget it, or (if they didn't), didn't take it very seriously. * In short, everything up to Volume 10 did happened once. they just turned the original world into a dream. Mm, finally I understand why he called Kurumi's Nightmare, not a (more) time-related names. But a nightmare isn't just a bad thing, right? Especially in this scenario, you had a nightmare, but tomorrow is alright . The author once said that it was the original plot he was planning since the beginning. It just looks like that his statement is pretty trustable now. By judging from the results, the fact is that they changed the world, but not really much. Basically everything is not changed, just some minor amendments, Origami is still a spirit, and by looking at it, she is still going to wrecking havoc. The actually results was that Kurumi and Shidou did buy some time so Shidou had the time to work out with Origami in the current time. OTOH, for Origami, she was living a miserable life, and finally hitting a sad fate that she can't totally deal with it. This is why she ended up being unresponsive in Vol 10. But after Shidou messed with it, it ended up becoming a very bad dreams she had one night, and it becomes an valuable thought experiment for her ("What will I do if it really happens?") That's an important thing for Shidou being able to seal her, because this time Origami is more prepared and so she's more vulnerable. ---- In another point of view, the author's theory is that "time travel" is a book, or just a dream, but in this case there're some special properties. There's no limitations to what you can do in it, but at the end it's just a dream in the other night, good or bad. That's why Shidou ended up waking up like usual. Simply saying, there are no such thing as "the past". In theory it shouldn't be possible to remove the event in the Vol 10 last chapter (and it looked like that it's very possible to happen again if things don't improve), so it was a miracle that they can turn it into a furture problem, not now, so while they can't really change the past, they can still change the future. In this logic, Kurumi's plan to stop the first Spacequake tragedy is deemed to backfire, because the world is highly faithful to the original story, it will alter itself to restore every big events no matter how much she would change. Even if she stopped it, it will just happen later. So for the question that how Origami became a spirit in the "new world", the simple answer is: it happened when Phantom made her one in Vol 10, and it carried over in the following days since the world isn't so new. Last edited by wm4; 2014-09-22 at 14:09. |
2014-09-22, 14:10 | Link #10606 | ||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
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I take it you are referring to Ars Install and Rin Utopia as references to how time works in Date a Live, and how time travel in the main DaL novels are consistent with that picture? Quote:
But if there is a tendecy for the time-line to correct itself, there may well be another boot ready to drop on-top of Shidou and his Spirits. Quote:
Technically, Origami owns Kurumi big time, so I do think that Kurumi would have no problems using the tenth bullet on Origami, so long as Kurumi asks nicely (and if Mana is still the same here, so long as Mana isn't nearby). Quote:
Furthermore, Origami's rampage was more or less spread out in this time-line, and presumably inflicted on evacuated, empty cities. Not thousands if not millions of Civilians who have not yet made it to the shelters. Which is probably what happened in Tengu City in the original time-line. Big difference here - the setting was reset after the author set it on fire the previous volume. ---- Quote:
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Still, no matter what, they are huge implications for Kurumi - I do think she is most interested in finding just out how much could be changed. Quote:
Also, there's the detail that "Inversed" Origami thrashed Natsumi rather badly during the rewritten Natsumi arc. Unless those summaries are mistaken. The "Devil" from what I can tell seems to have operated far longer than the mere 48 or 72 hours Origami has been a Spirit for in the old Time-line. |
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2014-09-22, 16:05 | Link #10608 |
Dreaming Butterfly
Join Date: May 2013
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I was just goofing around and thought up something that could be interesting if it happened...or not.
1. This assumes a sixth spirit with the power of electricity, and thus brain waves, as well as assuming that the info finding abilities of the organizations involved in the story really suck. 2. The sixth spirit, upon the orders of Phantom, alters the perception of those in the area when Shidou and Origami are in the past, leading Origami to believe that she killed her parents and thus making her go Inverse in the present. 3. Origami's parents are found to be alive after she is sealed and it is revealed that they remember nothing about her. 4. Origami's parents have adopted a little girl whom they have named "Origami" and believe that she has always been their daughter. 5. Origami refuses to see her parents again after it is revealed that they are alive as she does not want to cause confusion and strife. 6. She resolves to become a stronger person yet still perverted yada yada yada. 7. The End.
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2014-09-22, 16:16 | Link #10609 | |
Kamen Rider Exceed
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Need to know basis
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2014-09-22, 16:18 | Link #10610 | |
Dreaming Butterfly
Join Date: May 2013
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I did forget about that, but I just made up my own little scenario, I wasn't really going by what actually happened. Also, I was trying to work in a fixed timeline. I guess it would have made sense and would be more tragic for Origami if she found out that she didn't really kill them...but then they died anyways. Hmm... 1. Sixth spirit with the power of electricity, and thus brain waves 2. The sixth spirit, upon the orders of Phantom, alters the perception of those in the area when Shidou and Origami are in the past, leading Origami to believe that she killed her parents and thus making her go Inverse in the present. 3. Origami finds out after she is sealed (since her memories change?) that she didn't kill her parents but that they died a year afterwards anyways. ...wait, crap, this is indeed where the fixed timeline falls apart. If Origami knew that her parents died in a car accident, then why would she think they died in a spirit attack? ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH
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2014-09-22, 16:28 | Link #10611 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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it's the point. The original world, from 5 years ago to the November, was abandoned and the New World replaced it after that point, at which Origami had already met Phantom "5 years ago in the New World", and when she woke up at "the next day", she would rationalize the history of the new 5 years and concluded that the previous world was something else. It also explained why the spirits still has (power) connections to Shidou, because they were just carried over from the "checkpoint." Last edited by wm4; 2014-09-22 at 16:43. |
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2014-09-22, 16:59 | Link #10612 |
Great Failure of a Genius
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Anywhere
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Well, well, looks like most of you still think it's a fixed timeline scenario. How many times, now? It's not a fixed timeline, because if it were, then Origami becoming a spirit was supposed to happen. But it's not; Kurumi said so.
Now, let's see. There are two timelines: the original one, and the altered one. I say altered because it's not really new at all. It's not a parallel world. It's basically the same room with the furniture arranged. What am I getting at? This is a dynamic timeline. A dynamic one. And this is necessary because this type of timeline spawns paradoxes. Here's a paradox: Origami hates spirits because her parents were killed by one. So she vowed to kill any spirit in her way, but she was powerless. So she became one and went back in time to kill the spirit that killed her parents. Turns out she was the one who killed her parents, and she herself was the one responsible for all spirit hatred. For a more elaborate one, picture this: Shidou pushed Origami's parents aside at the last second. Where did his body go? Simple answer: it's gone! It vanished. His consciousness was unharmed however, and went back to the original timeline. Except that he was able to change history. Ahhh, now we're getting somewhere. Before he saved her parents, he did one thing: he let Kotori become a spirit first. This ensures that he still meets the others when he comes back. He's "preserving" some elements from the original timeline. So his consciousness went to the altered timeline where he still has a body, but at the time he went back to the past in the original timeline, because his body was disintegrated. Well then, what's with all that confusing time travel mechanics we have here? Why is fate taking over? Basically, Shidou is an intruder from a different time. Since he altered history, everything starts to conform to his original timeline, like white blood cells producing antibodies to protect the body from a virus. This could explain why Origami went back to being a spirit. To put it in another way, this altered timeline is sick, and Shidou managed to infect it with elements from his timeline, where Origami is still an Inversed spirit. What do you think? Do the paradoxes still come unresolved? Well, why don't we destroy the time machine? It would undo everything the time traveler did. Kurumi must die so that we won't be dealing with this time travel roller coaster. At least, that's my stand.
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2014-09-22, 19:44 | Link #10614 |
Junior Member
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Yeah it couldn't be a fixed timeline because there would have been two Shidous in the area of the blast: the one who pushed Origami's parents out of the way and the one who comforted Origami who just lost her parents - a paradox. It didn't happen that way in the story. It was still the current timeline based on Origami's history until Past Kurumi's 12th bullet hit Shidou which moved it to Shidou's timeline and temporarily erasing his existence from Origami's.
Also, the second twelfth bullet's effect never wore off unless the first bullet's effect wearing off implied it. |
2014-09-22, 20:09 | Link #10616 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
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I think that's probably one of the best analogies to understand what exactly happened in Volume 11.
But still, having memories of two different timelines running side by side should lead to quite abit of dissonance - perhaps not so much for the rest of the Spirits, but the differences in Origami's memories must be extremely dramatic. And once more, I wonder whether Shidou's lack of memories of the new time-line between meeting Tohka and November 11th is going to spring some unexpected surprises subsequently. Or whether inverse Origami ensured that events that might prove too divergent in Origami's absence (the shooting of Tohka, that series of aerial battles above the Tengu City cultural festival where Origami was one of the major players, etc....) ended up with the same outcomes. And if Inverse Origami had shown up to stand in for Origami's original role in the captures of every Spirit from Tohka to Natsumi, I can imagine each capture actually being even more chaotic than originally. For example , Origami shooting Shidou in Tokha's capture is replaced with Inverse Origami striking Shidou with one of those feathers, Inverse Origami this time is the main reason why Yoshino hid in her huge snow barrier during the end of her arc, Inverse Origami reduced the number of Bandersnatches that could interfere with the Yamai Twin capture to a manageable number, Inverse Origami ensuring that the DEM Capture squad during Miku's arc was delayed long enough for events down on the ground to play out the same way as before, etc. |
2014-09-22, 22:16 | Link #10617 |
Dreaming Butterfly
Join Date: May 2013
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Could somebody give me a run down of the extra BD minutes so far? I know we're only on volume 3 and volume 4 comes out on 9/26, but a post before talked about the extra content as if they had knowledge of all volumes.
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2014-09-23, 00:14 | Link #10620 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
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After rereading DAL, i wonder why the author always uses phases like "Tohka and the others", "Tohka and the spirits", "Tohka and the girls"... They appeared with an unusual rate. Did they imply something? Like Tohka is a different being unlike the other?
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