2013-03-15, 13:48 | Link #121 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
|
Not sure how you measure 'great teacher', but Kakashi did raise a team that fell to pieces in less than a year, along with raising a missing-nin.
Not saying he's a FAILURE, but he wasn't really that great either. |
2013-03-15, 15:55 | Link #123 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
I actually signaled out all the 'Team 7' style teams as ticking time bombs that always seem to end in failure.
LOL, there is a lot of truth in this statement. Naruto has had some great individual instruction. In fact, overall individual instruction has generally been good in the series. It's just Team instruction that always seems to fall apart. Kakashi was awful for a Team, but he was very good individually (at least if you had a Y chromosome), and the same seems to be true of quite a few of the 'elite'. Last edited by james0246; 2013-03-15 at 17:45. |
2013-03-15, 19:23 | Link #126 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
|
Quote:
It's quite obvious to me that the author wanted Kakashi to be The Sensei of the series, among all the teachers he is the one that was meant to be the best. If you think that Kakashi is a bad teacher then you are not satisfied with the author's performance in this matter. |
|
2013-03-15, 23:09 | Link #127 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
^i couldn't agree more
Quote:
so really all we're talking about is sasuke here and like Ero-Senn1n said, there wasn't anyone who could have stopped him. whoever you think is a better teacher than kakashi, just put them in his place, and it still wouldn't have reasonably stopped sasuke from leaving to pursue his vengeance. |
|
2013-03-16, 01:45 | Link #128 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Command center, the ship's bridge
|
Quote:
As for team 7 “abandoning” Kakashi, I also disagree. Naruto and Sakura, when they were ready, simply sought instruction from masters who could offer what Kakashi couldn't. I see it somewhat analogous to a primary care physician referring a patient to a specialist. As for Sasuke, I do think a teacher should also instill virtues such as loyalty, yet things get complicated with circumstances like the Uchiha massacre, since its arguable Sasuke is in fact being “loyal” to his clan. Still, I don't believe Sasuke's defection reflects badly on Kakashi as a teacher; even Hashirama praised the third in his teaching ability in regards to Orochimaru, and he is one of the most infamous defectors in Konoha's history. Kakashi gave Sasuke sound advice (no pun intended) regarding his hatred, yet we know that only Naruto will be allowed to get through to him for obvious plot reasons, so it really isn't fair to hold that against him either. |
|
2013-03-17, 08:07 | Link #129 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Rochester NY
|
Quote:
|
|
2013-03-17, 08:22 | Link #130 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Rochester NY
|
The end of this story is obvious now.Just as obvious as the masked mans identity and maybe twice as hard to accept for some.The day will not be won by some fantastic all powerful ninjitsu. What then can save the ninja world from an endless cycle of hatered which is the ultimate goal of every major antagonist and protagonist yet revealed. You know what, i don't don't have to tell you,you can feel it inside your heart.
|
2013-03-17, 11:14 | Link #131 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
I will say this about my ever present beef with Kakashi (as a teacher) and the creation of Team 7-like teams (amongst other annoyances that detract from repeated viewership): It really doesn't fucking matter. Kishimoto is not trying to make "sense" or be "logical", he is trying to entertain and present a dramatic story. As I said earlier, Naruto and Sasuke being on a team together is just plain stupid, but the connection they forge and the resulting drama is quite compelling and interesting. Simply because what Kishimoto does is stupid (and it often times is), doesn't mean the resulting emotion is false. Much of the story is dramatically sound, even if illogical.
|
2013-03-17, 14:07 | Link #132 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
I think people who are calling kakashi a failed teacher are forgetting that not even naruto could convince sasuke to stay and naruto is unquestionably the most persuasive character in the story. in other words, nobody could have prevented sasuke leaving. it was inevitable |
|
2013-03-17, 16:18 | Link #133 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
Specifically, besides teaching the basic chakra control technique, he did nothing for his team (no, mentioning Tora indicates nothing; save for the very brief instance with Sasuke during the first Zabuza encounter, we were never shown any teamwork ala the Ino-Shika-Chou levels of preparation or conjoined attacks). But, he did teach Sasuke some advanced techniques, and once Team 7 had been reorganized (without Kakashi at the helm) he did teach Naruto the secret of Kage Bushin (which he conceivably could have taught Naruto on their initial meeting rather than waiting two and a half years, but for whatever reason didn't). Sadly, Sakura never received any instruction from him whether as a team or as an individual. So, he did have moderate success with Sasuke, minimal success with Naruto, and no success with Sakura. As for strength of character, I actually think he was most influential with Sakura rather than Sasuke and Naruto. Naruto came in to the team with a strong and clear sense of self as well as how to care for others. True he was a fool and he seldom worked well with others, but he came on to the team with the desire to help. The one, and arguably only teamwork/character building lesson that Kakashi taught his team (the bell lesson) was something Naruto already knew, and had even shown during the first chapter with Iruka and the next chapter with Konohamaru. So, Kakashi effectively taught Naruto nothing he didn't already know. Sasuke is also an interesting case. He did react well to the bell test (he did learn to treat Naruto as a human rather than simply garbage), but it seemingly did nothing for his work with his team. Rather, it was Naruto and their history that was more informative and beneficial to Sasuke's development not anything Kakashi taught him early on. And later, Kakashi tried to teach Sasuke about the destructive nature of revenge, but he was completely ignored. Sasuke effectively abandoned anything Kakashi tried to teach him (however minimal), forsaking the village and his team mates. Sakura, on the other hand, did learn quite a bit from Kakashi's lessons and words. Coming into the team, she was a conceited, selfish little princess that cared for nothing but herself and her obsession with Sasuke. The story of Part I is, in some respects, the story of her development as a human being (the story of Part I is definitely the story of Team 7's involvement and development), going from an extreme lack of any positive traits, to a caring team mate that actively wants the best for her team mates. Whether this is really something Kakashi helped instigate or not is debatable, but it is obvious that her growth is directly related to whatever Kakashi was attempting to do with his Team. In the end, it is obvious, at least for me, that Kakashi partially failed at teaching his team how to be physical strong, and also partially failed to teach his team strength of character. Sadly, I do not believe that his minor successes can match up to his much larger failings. He was simply not a good teacher. |
|
2013-03-17, 17:50 | Link #134 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
as for sakura, that moreso falls under the 'useless girl' theme of naruto than it does kakashi's teaching. how can he teach someone who kishi has no intention of developing? her development during the sasori arc was clearly forced since she was quickly forgotten soon after. it was more of kishi saying he didnt forget about one of the 'main characters' and then he got tired of her really fast |
||
2013-03-17, 18:13 | Link #135 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Sakura received equal levels of development to Naruto and Sasuke (in Part I). She was still useless in a fight (because of Kakashi ), but she grew just as much as her teammates. |
||||
2013-03-17, 18:34 | Link #136 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2013-03-18, 03:49 | Link #137 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
|
Quote:
Sasuke was later constantly in pain because of the Cursed Seal trying to take him over. Without it, he would have done a lot better. Everything in the Forest of Death is Orochimaru's manipulation. He attacked them and then made sure they passed by having Kabuto help them out.
__________________
|
|
2013-03-19, 00:32 | Link #139 | |
Konoha's ANBU
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 38
|
Quote:
IF Orochimaru didnt interfere maybe Gaara would've found them. We all know that it would almost certainly mean the end of team 7 at that point. No miracle Sharingan or chakra Kyuubi outburst would've saved them (unless an explosion of tails..) Gaara was at that point probably at a level to compete with some jounin. Another thing... if Tobirama wanted to leave why make such a scene? He also has a space-time jutsu right which he can use to teleport? Just like Minato. Who can still teach Naruto sealing techniques and Hiraishin. But then... would Sasuke stand a chance? One last thing... Is it true or did anyone notice that the power of the Sharingan has been greatly decreased since before the timeskip? The Sharingan was at that point able to copy anything. Allowed the user to dodge anything. (Sasuke was so much better vs Naruto after the 3rd dot, in the manga we saw how he could predict his movements) But... somehow it seems to have no effect anymore because... Sasuke didnt or couldnt predict that his MS genjutsu wouldnt work on Killerbee (his neck got sliced) Hashirama and Tobirama fought and his Sharingan didnt seem to give him the upperhand. (Short battle) Sasuke barely survived his battle against Deidara and mister cripple ANBU. Instead of just using a Sharingan which Oro dreams of... Sasuke still makes Oro horny. Anyways as i mentioned the prediction thing... of the Sharingan seems to have reduced abilities during the series. Is this also a shared conclusion?
__________________
|
|
|
|