Epitaph: Speculations and Theories [Episode 1-4]

[Jan-Poo]

"1st twilight" °°

[matteas]

Interesting approach. It might be possible to reach a goal with this way of reasoning. But we have to keep in mind that there are two possible ways how this little trick can work. Either with English words for numbers, as your example, or Japanese words. Even though Japanese is more likely in this case, there's no basis on which we could rule out the possibility of English words for numbers being used therein.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Spoiler for Episode 5:

Battler suggested something like that in Episode 5, didn't he? Considering he solved the Epitaph in that Episode, he might've been on the right track.

@Matteas:
And considering how much of a Western freak Kinzo was, it makes English words all the more likely.

[Jan-Poo]

I'm on a certain path now and I'm trying to figure out if it can lead somewhere or not, however I think I'll need some help because I'm kinda stuck.

Now this path is based on something that never really appeared in any game so I don't know if I should consider it a spoiler or not. It appears on the EP6 code program, but not in the actual game, it isn't even hinted... so well anyway I'll put it under spoiler anyway

Spoiler for kinda:

In the code program it appears that there is a never previously mentioned character named "Light". There is actually someone debating that it might actually be "Wright", but let's just assume it's "Light".

Now the first thing that caught my attention is that this is a 5 letter name, and everytime I come across a five letter name in Umineko I automatically try to see if it fits with the epitaph.

Well you don't need a genius to notice that "light" is included in "first twilight" (or "1st twilight"), maybe it's too much straightforward. You might argue that then the "two who are close" wouldn't work. Well actually, it isn't really necessary that all the remaining letters are left alone, but just that you only have one pair of letters. So for example if after the first twilight you get " st light", it is still pretty obvious which are the "two who are close".

But anyway the other thing that looks interesting is the fact that LIGHT might fit with the other twilights, where we have, "head, chest, stomach, leg, feet".
But they don't need to be exactly those words, the original is in japanese so you can try every synonymous. And here, as usual, I'm getting sooo close but not close enough...

Head
Torso
Guts
Leg
and I miss the "I"

or

Head
Torso
Intestine
Leg
and I miss the "G"

So this is where I need your help. Can you find a way to get all the five body parts fit into "Light"?

Mind that the last two are kinda ambiguous

the fourth body part "hiza" can mean "knee", and it seems that the staker in various games interpret it as "upper leg".

the fifth body part can either mean "feet" or "leg", however I don't think anyone has ever been staked in the "feet", more like the lower part of the leg.

[rogerpepitone]

It's mentioned that characters went to get an atlas while solving the epitaph; is there any mention of getting any other book (specifically a Japanese - English dictionary)?

[Jan-Poo]

the scene of Eva in the book storage is very ambiguous, it never tells you what kind of book she was looking at at that very moment, you only know from a previous instance that she was looking for an atlas, however there's a lot of books around and it's possible that she researched other books while there.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I'm on a certain path now and I'm trying to figure out if it can lead somewhere or not, however I think I'll need some help because I'm kinda stuck.

Now this path is based on something that never really appeared in any game so I don't know if I should consider it a spoiler or not. It appears on the EP6 code program, but not in the actual game, it isn't even hinted... so well anyway I'll put it under spoiler anyway

Spoiler for kinda:

In the code program it appears that there is a never previously mentioned character named "Light". There is actually someone debating that it might actually be "Wright", but let's just assume it's "Light".

Now the first thing that caught my attention is that this is a 5 letter name, and everytime I come across a five letter name in Umineko I automatically try to see if it fits with the epitaph.

Well you don't need a genius to notice that "light" is included in "first twilight" (or "1st twilight"), maybe it's too much straightforward. You might argue that then the "two who are close" wouldn't work. Well actually, it isn't really necessary that all the remaining letters are left alone, but just that you only have one pair of letters. So for example if after the first twilight you get " st light", it is still pretty obvious which are the "two who are close".

But anyway the other thing that looks interesting is the fact that LIGHT might fit with the other twilights, where we have, "head, chest, stomach, leg, feet".
But they don't need to be exactly those words, the original is in japanese so you can try every synonymous. And here, as usual, I'm getting sooo close but not close enough...

Head
Torso
Guts
Leg
and I miss the "I"

or

Head
Torso
Intestine
Leg
and I miss the "G"

So this is where I need your help. Can you find a way to get all the five body parts fit into "Light"?

Mind that the last two are kinda ambiguous

the fourth body part "hiza" can mean "knee", and it seems that the staker in various games interpret it as "upper leg".

the fifth body part can either mean "feet" or "leg", however I don't think anyone has ever been staked in the "feet", more like the lower part of the leg.

I've got an idea, but maybe it's a lil far-fetched ^^;;

Spoiler for My idea:

Head
Torso
Intenstine
Gracilis = a muscle wich is placed in the upper leg.
Ligaments = a part that surrounds the knee.

[DgBarca]

Ho, did anyone noticed that you can say "古里" for hometown too ?
里, village ? 4 km ?
古...Google give me : "Antiquity, Ancient time,Used, Secondhand" it looks like a Christian cross. (chapel ?)

Spoiler for Private thinking, spoiler for those who didn't reach EP3:

Secondhand...Kuwadorian ?

4km from Kuwadorian ?

Also, friends and I tried to look at 里 like a map. The Rose Garden on the top, the Mansion in the middle, and the Chapel in the bottom, but it would mean that the chapel is bigger than the mansion...I guess it's not.
But is you consider 古里, you can do this :


里
古

It looks pretty weird...Like, the square on the bottom can be the chapel and the mansion is now pretty big, but doesn't have ledges on the right and left, so, something that continue, like a river !

That strange reasoning, but Umineko is evil.

[Darkgoonos]

Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Good point we have gone off topic.

Maybe the key is the Lesser Key of Solomon... but to know further we need a copy. Does any1 know where to find one?

I happen to own a copy of the lesser key of solomon

[TheWatcher]

i have gained the lesser key but there is not enough to make a complete theory from it. Maybe the demons have fragments of what the key is as the sacrifices are chosen by the key and demon and thier servants have killed so far

[Burkie]

Just a little thought- On the second twilight it says those who remain shall tear apart the two who are close. I think this suggests that the pair of letters should go at either end of the word.
For example, if you take Qilian out of Quadrillion you're left with _u_dr__l_o_. Now if you split up the d and r so that they're on either end you could have something like dulor, rould or dolur.
Dulor means an ache or pain so that seems interesting. Or if you break it up it becomes dul_or (dull ore) which is a possible reference to the gold. The hiding place was implied to be dull and dank.
Rould (rolled) might refer to dice or chance in general.
Dolur (dollar) could be a reference to money which also fits in nicely.

I'm not sure about this one because the d and r stay together but they can be rearranged to form lo_urd (lowered), which I thought was interesting because the third twilight says to praise my honorable name on high.

[Thunder Book]

I have a theory I came up with. This is based on an assumption, and probably a wrong assumption, that the answer should be in English.

I tried playing with different variations of "village of gold" for the epitaph and decided on trying "Golden Village".

For the "Remove the six chosen by the key" part, I thought "What if it doesn't mean six characters, but characters that can be read as six?" So I then thought "Maybe "VI". That can be read as six in roman numerals."

Golden __llage.

For the "two who are close" I removed the "ll". Parallel lines are close after all.

Golden ____age.

Now this was weird to me, considering the whole "Golden Age of Mystery". I kind of ignored that though, as I don't see Kinzo really being a mystery buff like someone as Battler.

For the third twilight though, I kind of wonder if were supposed to praise the Golden age of something, like Kinzo's life. I don't know.

For the next few twilights, I think were supposed to ignore the "gouging" and that is actually instructions on how to enter the "Golden Land." Otherwise, they are just hints to help verify that the "key word" is 13 characters long. This is easily the shakiest part of my theory.

Next, I thought about the Ninth twilight, I thought "What is the one thing that kills with 100% certainty? Oh yeah... becoming... "old"."

I lied. Actually that is the shakiest part.

G___en ____age.

Rearrange the letters and you get "Engage." Where do you go after getting engaged?

A chapel.

This also fits to me because it makes sense that the gold would be there, where none of Kinzo's children would be allowed to go to.

Without love, it cannot be seen. If you don't love someone enough to marry them, you can't see a chapel.

Now granted, I think this theory probably is wrong, and I'm pretty sure Episode 5 contradicts it, but I wonder if some of my thinking might be on the right track at least.

Unfortunately I don't have answers for the other parts of the Epitaph, but I'm toying with the idea that maybe "Witch" actually refers to a bomb Kinzo himself set before dying. I'll get more on that later.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

*snip*

I actually like this theory a lot. Clever word play, which is what the Epitaph is supposed to be.
The one problem I have with it (and the reason I doubt it works as the solution) is that it doesn't explain why you might need an atlas to reach this solution.
But still, I do like it a lot, and I think you're on the right track with relying on an English answer.

[Thunder Book]

The only I can think of is maybe there is a place that can be translated as "Golden Village" or something from Japanese to English, and Eva had to check if there really was a place named that.

[Zannafar]

I found some very interesting theories regarding the epitath here^^

I really like Thunder Book's idea because it doesn't sound that far-fetched. The only problem is that Ryuukishi07 probably didn't think up the epitath in english.

I also liked Jan-Poo's more far-fetched idea because:

Spoiler for my idea:

If there was a character named "Light" his name would translate into "Hikari" in japanese. Considering that Kinzo is obsessed with western stuff, he might have created the epitath in Romaji instead of Kanji and Hikari could work as the six letter key.

But then again it is supposed to be possible to solve the epitath with what you know from the first Episode, so this probably is just me thinking too much.

The last thing I wanted to comment on was Judoh and the poem 10 Little Indians which was used in "And Then There Were None".
If the epitath really was inspired by this poem, then the "Sweetfish River" might be connected with the "Red Herring" (there are subspecies of the herring family that live in sweetwater) and the whole first part of the epitath could be ignored.
But again, this might just be me thinking to much...

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by Zannafar

I found some very interesting theories regarding the epitath here^^

I really like Thunder Book's idea because it doesn't sound that far-fetched. The only problem is that Ryuukishi07 probably didn't think up the epitath in english.

I also liked Jan-Poo's more far-fetched idea because:

Spoiler for my idea:

If there was a character named "Light" his name would translate into "Hikari" in japanese. Considering that Kinzo is obsessed with western stuff, he might have created the epitath in Romaji instead of Kanji and Hikari could work as the six letter key.

But then again it is supposed to be possible to solve the epitath with what you know from the first Episode, so this probably is just me thinking too much.

The last thing I wanted to comment on was Judoh and the poem 10 Little Indians which was used in "And Then There Were None".
If the epitath really was inspired by this poem, then the "Sweetfish River" might be connected with the "Red Herring" (there are subspecies of the herring family that live in sweetwater) and the whole first part of the epitath could be ignored.
But again, this might just be me thinking to much...

But it's not Ryuukishi writing the Epitaph, it's Ryuukishi as Kinzo writing the Epitaph. If it's written by an in-game character, then it must be written as if it is actually them writing it. And considering Kinzo is such a Western otaku, I would expect him to use English somewhere in it.
But this does interfere with Eva and Rosa solving the Epitaph. I'm not sure how well-versed the two of them are in English. Eva maybe, but Rosa is doubtful.
And you seem to be thinking a lot that you're thinking too much. Nonsense! There's no such thing as thinking too much. Unless you can somehow manage to short-curcuit your brain while over-thinking.
I'd pay to see that.

[Thunder Book]

You know, I do wonder who on the Island actually knows English.

Spoiler for Slight Episode 5 Spoilers:

I was rereading Episode 5 and Nanjo of all people knows English, and enough to be able to read full mystery novels in English too.

Also, apparently Kinzo had a collection of original English mystery novels. Hmm....

If my idea of the Epitaph is right, perhaps "Golden ____age" does indeed refer to the Golden Age of Mystery.

[Zannafar]

Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki

And you seem to be thinking a lot that you're thinking too much. Nonsense! There's no such thing as thinking too much. Unless you can somehow manage to short-curcuit your brain while over-thinking.
I'd pay to see that.

You're right there. Somehow I tend to use certain phrases too often, even if they don't make much sense.
But I do tend to think too complicated often enough, overlooking many simple solutions for problems and taking hours to solve questions I could easily solve in a few minutes.

Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki

But it's not Ryuukishi writing the Epitaph, it's Ryuukishi as Kinzo writing the Epitaph. If it's written by an in-game character, then it must be written as if it is actually them writing it. And considering Kinzo is such a Western otaku, I would expect him to use English somewhere in it.

In that case why do we limit it to english? As a western Otaku Kinzo might have hidden the answer in german, french or latin as well (or maybe hebrew). Though I have to admit, that after translating it into german, I didn't find anything that helps with solving the epitath.

[Jan-Poo]

That possibility exists and it was taken in consideration by some. However it is quite apparent that among the western languages Kinzo favors english.

1) He signs his own "grimoires" with the pen name "Goldsmith". Which of curse is somehow an english translation of his name.

2) The chapel that he made build and which seems to be of a particular value to him, has an english inscription on it. (And it seems to be related to the epitaph)

3) It is said that Kinzo had many friends among the american forces that occupied Japan after the end of the war. So while it is said that he knows many foreign languages, english should be the one he's more fluent with.

[Judoh]

I just thought of something. Did you know that there is a golden age of winchesters? I just reread one of the TIPS. The gun Natsuhi used was from that golden age. Can that apply to the epitaph maybe?

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/TIPS/Episode_1

Sawed-off Winchester M-1894

A sawed-off custom rifle manufactured during the golden age of Winchesters. Besides that, it has had its portability and romantic aspect jacked up at the expense of its lethal range. Also, if one can handle the unique lever action, one can also use it for rapid-fire like an average pistol. On top of that, the single-hand reload action using the characteristic lever handle will no doubt be irresistible to Western lovers.

It can employ up to .45 long-colt bullets, just as Kinzo likes it. The number of rounds is 4+1 shots.