[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 2 Turn of the golden witch

[LyricalAura]

I was rereading the first two episodes to prepare for starting episode 3, and something interesting jumped out at me that I completely missed the first time through.

Spoiler for Beatrice gets meta:

Back in the first ura tea party, after Bernkastel gives Battler/the reader her hint about how to beat Beatrice, she says the hint is something like a spoon: "A spoon isn't something you can only use to drink soup. You can dig through the prison you're locked in, and make it a weapon to gouge the Witch's eye out."

Which is fine. But then in episode 2, when Beatrice is explaining to Shannon why she wants the shrine mirror destroyed: "If only the push of that mirror were gone, I could prepare a spoon perfect for drinking soup. ...If only that were to happen, I could drink soup, and even dig my way out of a rocky prison. ...I could even scoop eyeballs out, is that how it went? *cackle*"

So in other words, that scene's subtext was roughly "Why yes, Battler, I did overhear that conversation with Bernkastel." Whoops.

[Saerianne]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

I was rereading the first two episodes to prepare for starting episode 3, and something interesting jumped out at me that I completely missed the first time through.

Spoiler for Beatrice gets meta:

Back in the first ura tea party, after Bernkastel gives Battler/the reader her hint about how to beat Beatrice, she says the hint is something like a spoon: "A spoon isn't something you can only use to drink soup. You can dig through the prison you're locked in, and make it a weapon to gouge the Witch's eye out."

Which is fine. But then in episode 2, when Beatrice is explaining to Shannon why she wants the shrine mirror destroyed: "If only the push of that mirror were gone, I could prepare a spoon perfect for drinking soup. ...If only that were to happen, I could drink soup, and even dig my way out of a rocky prison. ...I could even scoop eyeballs out, is that how it went? *cackle*"

So in other words, that scene's subtext was roughly "Why yes, Battler, I did overhear that conversation with Bernkastel." Whoops.

Damn. I never noticed that. It could definitely be linked.

[Bern-chan]

Btw, I was wondering, since Lambdadelta means 34 in Greek, does Bernkastel mean anything? Other than being the last name of Frederica Bernkastel of course.

[HigurashinoUmineko]

Originally Posted by Bern-chan

Btw, I was wondering, since Lambdadelta means 34 in Greek, does Bernkastel mean anything? Other than being the last name of Frederica Bernkastel of course.

It's the name of a wine

Possible the wine that Rika Furude drinks..

[Exilon]

Unless it's just a common phrase?
Although, very nice catch.
I think there's soemthing else on it, though. Could Bernkastel be hinting at that particular reference?

[MuzikalNotes]

Originally Posted by HigurashinoUmineko

It's the name of a wine

Possible the wine that Rika Furude drinks..

Actually, Bernkastel was a character in the Higurashi VN, though the only appearance she's ever had in the anime was in the ending of the last episode, when this "adult Rika" comes up to Takano, though this is mostly fan speculation. I don't know much about Bernkastel in Higurashi, though, since I've only read a bit of the VN and the anime didn't show much info on her.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by MuzikalNotes

Actually, Bernkastel was a character in the Higurashi VN, though the only appearance she's ever had in the anime was in the ending of the last episode, when this "adult Rika" comes up to Takano, though this is mostly fan speculation. I don't know much about Bernkastel in Higurashi, though, since I've only read a bit of the VN and the anime didn't show much info on her.

And like HigurashinoUmineko said, her name is also the name of the brand of wine Rika drinks... that was pretty much the answer to Bern-chan's question. =P

So both Lambdadelta and Bernkastel have names connected to the characters they were based off of. :3

[Bern-chan]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

And like HigurashinoUmineko said, her name is also the name of the brand of wine Rika drinks... that was pretty much the answer to Bern-chan's question. =P

So both Lambdadelta and Bernkastel have names connected to the characters they were based off of. :3

Technically those chars were based off of them if you go by in-game canon, but Higurashi was most likely written before Ryuu had even thought of Umineko. but it's still possible that he had it planned too I guess, idk.

[rogerpepitone]

Something I dislike about the dominant theory of the killer:

Spoiler for dominant theory of the killer:

If Rosa was involved in the chapel crime, why'd she throw away her alibi? By the red text, the killer did put the key back in the envelope. Why would Rosa go to all that trouble and get the key in such a way that nobody would be able to confirm that the key was there in the first place? Why not send one of the servants to bring Maria (or the key), or be less quiet entering?

Spoiler for Other:

Is there anything confirming when Kanon died in the honored guest's room?

[Haruyan]

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Something I dislike about the dominant theory of the killer:

Spoiler for dominant theory of the killer:

If Rosa was involved in the chapel crime, why'd she throw away her alibi? By the red text, the killer did put the key back in the envelope. Why would Rosa go to all that trouble and get the key in such a way that nobody would be able to confirm that the key was there in the first place? Why not send one of the servants to bring Maria (or the key), or be less quiet entering?

Spoiler:

'Cause maybe she's not the killer? I don't know, by what we've seen in the episodes, Rosa is not very clever, or so it seems. She seems very impulsive, so she might not have thought that very well.

I also don't see why there's so much mess about the chapel. It's said in red text that only the key can open it, but they never say anything about closing it. The culprit could've left the door open, give the key to Maria, commit the crime, and the close the door manually (or with auto-lock, I can't remember if it was stated whether that specific door had auto-lock or not)

[rogerpepitone]

I guess I wasn't clear; I disagree with the dominant theory for that reason.

General statements:
1) The characters in the story are unaware of the red text, and will not take any actions that benefit them only with additions of the red text.
2) Anything that requires an object that would not normally be found on the island, or that the person would not normally carry, must have been planned for before leaving for Rokkenjima.
3) Anything that requires moving a substantial amount of additional stuff not normally on the island probably requires an assistant who is a regular inhabitant of the island.

I'm not sure whether the door could be locked from the outside without a key, but I doubt it; it would be odd to use that kind of lock on just one door. For now, I'll assume it isn't.

From that:

Spoiler for misc:

As above, Rosa was not involved in the murders in the chapel.

Whoever gave Maria the key was not involved with the murder, or unless she decided to do so after giving the key to Maria. (She would have give a fake key to Maria, to avoid making two switches.)

So I agree with the people who suggested that "Happy Halloween" and the candies were there as a good surprise for Maria (the treat), that was cruelly twisted by the killer (the trick).

- Somebody involved with the treat must have been a resident of the island, to be able to move that much candy in without Maria noticing it. (True however things go.)
- Somebody involved with the treat must have been able to pass for Beatrice, and had no alibi for when Maria received the envelope.
- Somebody involved with the trick must have had knowledge of the treat, to know where to find the key. (Not necessarily involvement; this person could have overheard somebody involved mention the plan.)
- Shannon had no knowledge of the treat. If she had, then she would have simply ignored the message "Chapel" the next day, knowing that it referred to Maria's surprise.
- Battler wasn't involved. He would have objected to Rosa taking the key because it would have spoiled the surprise.
- Rosa wasn't involved, unless she had MPS and her other personality planned it; she would have hated the idea.
- It is unlikely that Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, or Rudolf is involved; Kinzo's treatment of it would lead to them not using it so frivolously. Also, none of them seem likely to do something just for Maria. Hideyoshi and Kyrie aren't much more likely.
- It's unlikely George was involved; the next day he thought the contents were related to the conference.
- It's likely Jessica was involved. Her comment "An envelope from the Golden Witch-sama. I wonder what was inside." strikes me like something a person who knows about the surprise would say. It focuses on the important (the key) and ignores that which would spoil it. (That is, not "I wonder who she was.")
- It's unlikely Kinzo was involved. He didn't particularly like Maria, and wasn't one for frivolities.
- Any of the servants might have assisted (though Shannon is out; Genji and Kanon are somewhat less likely for reasons similar to Krauss), but it's unlikely that they'd initiate it on their own.

That means it was probably Jessica who set it up, possibly with the assistance of Kumasawa or Gohda. She might have played Beatrice herself, or had Kumasawa do it (did they have alibis?), or did she hire an actress? (My big problem here is Jessica's comment "It has to be that witch." right they find the bodies.)

As for who was in on the trick...

[Ankoku-chan]

Has anybody figured out what the green patch is during the Tsururettan performance? Sorry I couldn't catch the whole thing as it went by the screen.

[Killerloli]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

And like HigurashinoUmineko said, her name is also the name of the brand of wine Rika drinks... that was pretty much the answer to Bern-chan's question. =P

So both Lambdadelta and Bernkastel have names connected to the characters they were based off of. :3

May I ask because I'm pretty new to Umineko but is Lambadadelta, connected to Takano?

[Ichy]

Originally Posted by Killerloli

May I ask because I'm pretty new to Umineko but is Lambadadelta, connected to Takano?

Spoiler for answer:

Lamdadelta granted Takanos wish.

[Kitsu]

May I post a theory of mine which bugs me for a really loooooooong time

Spoiler:

inGame!Beatrice=Jessica
She dressed up as Beatrice to help Shannon after she cried and such because of her life as furniture.
It hit me the first time Jessica begun to cackle...

[Jan-Poo]

Spoiler for episode2:

I also thought the same. I mean i think there is the possibility that in ep2 Jessica is impersonating Beatrice. The two look very similar, same age, same hair colour. Why is Beatrice younger than usual only in this episode? But i can't really go farther than that, in other words i wouldn't bet on it.

[Kitsu]

Spoiler:

At first i didn't thought it was strange how Jessica laughed...but after replaying...she is the only real character who cackles. Also how she talked about love and such...it just fitted. The only thing that doesn't fit so good is the last conservation she had with Kanon before "disappearing for a while" The one were she laughed about him and Jessica and mocked him for making a girl cry. I don't think Jessica would laugh about that. So we have two kinds of Beatos in that game. The Illusion and the Illusion Jessica build up.
Also~ where did she got the clothes from? I'm sure if she acted as Beatrice then she would have to dress up a bit. So someone helped I think. And if I think about it more clearly...couldn't it be that Kanon helped? After being sent away by Shannon, he still wanted to help her...so he went to Jessica? Or maybe Kumasawa~ yeah Kumasawa is more likely
And yes they look familiar especially the time Beato wore those "casual" clothes (I mean the skirt and such)
But I'm a little disturbed by the Kanon kissing her shoes...I mean...I can totally see her gaining pleasure from that but it's still a little bit disturbing

[Auria]

Spoiler for Beato/Jessy:

Awww Kitsu was first! xD
Well I first noticed it when I saw various fanarts that dressed up Jessica like Beatrice, but the more you look at those two, the two bangs at the ears (Beatrice ones are curly but Jessicas have the same length) the skirt especially, hair color.. Can't say something about the character really since I never extremely payed attention to Jessica *pff* or her behaviour was nothing special for me. But the impersonating in ep2 would make sense (Err, I can cosplay Beato and Jessica at the same time lulz)

In what scene did she exactly cackle (if you remember, Kitsu)?

[Kitsu]

Spoiler for Jessy/Beato:

I remember clearly ^^
It was the scene in the first chapter in which George, Shannon and Jessica were in the garden. While making fun of George and Shannon and talking about love she cackled.

[Seeneniit]

I finished episode two last night. I feel like I didn't pay much attention to the text tough, since I was a bit confused a lot of times. I did not even try to solve the puzzles most of the time since I assumed that there is probably something that has not yet been introduced to the reader.
I really don't like the character designs for Kyrie and Battler. There are some others that I also don't like but not as much as those two. I can't take Kyrie seriously at all because of her clothes. It's just ridiculous. And Battler's trousers look really funny. At least you are not able to see them while playing the game. But I like the way that Rosa, Natsuhi and Rudolf were drawn a lot.
I also like a lot that the witchcraft is not presented in some sort of dark,evil etc. style but it is a bit cheerful, a little whimsical and pompous. Mostly because of the background music and sound effects.
I was thinking of dropping reading this in the beginning of the second part because it got too much magic involved and had too much unanswered questions. The ending even felt as if it was symbolic writing.