AnimeSuki Forums

Tyabann · 2010-08-05, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronotrig

Yep, looks like she's real world (though Beatrice appeared on that page too).

Looks like she's either in Ange's or Erika's spots, too, since the bottom row is still intact.

Leafsnail · 2010-08-05, 18:17

That's an... interesting find.

Although the lower half of her clothing is enough to confirm she isn't a demon or furniture, I guess.

Renall · 2010-08-05, 18:19

Most likely s/he'd be in the old "19th person" slot. That doesn't necessarily prove he/she has an independent existence, of course (if you suppose Suit-Beato was somebody else). Or that all 18 people who would normally appear on that first page will appear in ep7's version.

Tyabann · 2010-08-05, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

Most likely s/he'd be in the old "19th person" slot.

Wouldn't it be funny if that slot was actually filled by the same person every time?

k//eternal · 2010-08-05, 18:47

Oh god, so she's not only real world, she's present-time, too? That's a good catch and has absurd implications...

Jan-Poo · 2010-08-05, 19:04

Well it fits with my Medium theory

Tyabann · 2010-08-05, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Well it fits with my Medium theory

Maaaaagic.

Marion · 2010-08-05, 19:12

I want to see what Ryukishi pulls out of his hat with this one. Erika was only able to be included because she was a shipwreck victim, who always washed ashore Rokkenjima. Battler and Beatrice's final red in EP 6 also means no one can just be hiding on the island from the mansion.

Leafsnail · 2010-08-05, 19:13

Some kakera where someone else goes to the island, I guess.

Renall · 2010-08-05, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Maaaaagic.

Is magic still actually a valid solution? I don't think the red has outright said magic isn't allowed. The supernatural can only be prohibited by Knox as a detective method.

k//eternal · 2010-08-05, 19:17

If it wasn't, the witch side would have lost automatically... so no, magic has never actually been prohibited.

Wouldn't that be an amazing ending.

Tyabann · 2010-08-05, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

Battler and Beatrice's final red in EP 6 also means no one can just be hiding on the island from the mansion.

...Unless both Erika-doesn't-exist and Shkanontrice are true. This leaves a slot open... which may, in fact, be filled in every game.

What if Beatrice, Suit-Beato, Erika, and this blonde person are all the same individual?

(This theory will be proven if Maria finds the blonde while searching for her rose, by the way.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

Is magic still actually a valid solution? I don't think the red has outright said magic isn't allowed.

Well, yes, but Ange outright states that magic isn't real, so...

Leafsnail · 2010-08-05, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Well, yes, but Ange outright states that magic isn't real, so...

She just doesn't want anyone else to steal her magic.

Jan-Poo · 2010-08-05, 19:28

Nah even in EP6 they confirmed that magic is forbidden.

But my medium theory doesn't necessarily implies that magic exists.

UsagiTenpura · 2010-08-05, 20:45

Idea about Battler's sin.

Shannon isn't her real self. All her feelings and dreams that cannot exist as part of Shannon are pushed over to Beatrice within herself. These includes her love for Battler as much as her dreams of being an endless witch. It also includes apparently a lot of envy and/or admiration for Jessica. Think of it like George said he wanted to be like Battler for a time. It also includes possibly a lot of hatred toward many of the family, tho probably not everyone.

Battler in arc 5, when he found the truth, said he would never forget it again, which implies he used to know it.

Beatrice, the "unfulfilled" parts of Shannon, would've died and she'd have given up on these things (fell to hell, abandon all hopes). However she is stuck in purgatory, because she cannot yet give up hope on these unfulfilled emotions, dreams, and thoughts. She was giving up, slowly, and trying to give up all these dreams in order to truly become "Shannon". George doesn't even know about the real her, he only knows and loves her Shannon persona. Shannon gradually accepts herself as Shannon more and more due to George loving her Shannon self ("I also become what I am thanks to you").

Arc 5 sorta made it seem as if Battler's sin was something that could look so insignificant from his side it'd be hard to really realize it was a sin.

So I've been thinking for a while now, Battler's sin was something along the lines of simply being himself. With his charisma and way of speaking, it's very possible he could've gotten Shannon to be less shy and open up to him about her real self. He then started to hit on the "real" Shannon, giving her hope that she could be loved and accepted for who she is.

Now because Battler comes back, all the things sealed within her as "Beatrice" wakes up. These comes back because of her love for Battler and hope to be loved for herself, but it comes back also with all the rest of she kept inside her. That of course includes her dreams of becoming an endless witch, and possibly a lot of negative and desperate feelings at once. At that point all these taking her over makes her irrational, and she believes that "everything Shannon is" isn't her "real" self (while a mix of the two, or three in Shkanontrice's case, would be her real self). That Battler doesn't seem to remember the past between them (he mentions in arc 3 he forgot most stuff he told Shannon, so likely the opposite is also true) makes her even more desperate and go over the line.

There's a lot more to probably elaborate about it, but this would be the general idea.

Judoh · 2010-08-05, 20:50

So basically Battler's sin is exactly like Shion remembering Satoshi only there's no "doll", no "Keiichi", and the red prohibits Beato's motive from being about revenge.

UsagiTenpura · 2010-08-05, 20:52

When Rosa slaps Maria, is that revenge?
No!
Hatred =/= revenge.

Leafsnail · 2010-08-05, 20:52

I was thinking her motive was to run a test to see which of the potential lovers could solve the epitaph first (after pressure is applied with the ceremony). Seems... farfetched though.

Judoh · 2010-08-05, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

When Rosa slaps Maria, is that revenge?
No!
Hatred =/= revenge.

Difference is that's not a murder. Any murder committed out of hatred or jealousy of any other person is revenge.

Besides that's not the point of what I'm saying.

Disz · 2010-08-05, 20:56

Beatrice=Shannons subconscious thoughts turned into a real life persona?

If that's what you're implying,that's exactly what I'm thinking.

2010-08-05, 18:19	Link #15343
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	Most likely s/he'd be in the old "19th person" slot. That doesn't necessarily prove he/she has an independent existence, of course (if you suppose Suit-Beato was somebody else). Or that all 18 people who would normally appear on that first page will appear in ep7's version. __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. This story is a redacted confession. Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists Battler Solves The Logic Error

2010-08-05, 19:04	Link #15346
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Well it fits with my Medium theory __________________

2010-08-05, 19:28	Link #15354
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Nah even in EP6 they confirmed that magic is forbidden. But my medium theory doesn't necessarily implies that magic exists. __________________

2010-08-05, 20:50	Link #15356
Judoh Mystery buff Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Gone Fishin!	So basically Battler's sin is exactly like Shion remembering Satoshi only there's no "doll", no "Keiichi", and the red prohibits Beato's motive from being about revenge. __________________ Judoh's George Culprit Analysis George steals candy from kids! Archive of Ryukishi interviews Gold truth theories:"

2010-08-05, 18:17	Link #15342
Leafsnail Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010	That's an... interesting find. Although the lower half of her clothing is enough to confirm she isn't a demon or furniture, I guess.

2010-08-05, 18:47	Link #15345
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	Oh god, so she's not only real world, she's present-time, too? That's a good catch and has absurd implications...

2010-08-05, 19:12	Link #15348
Marion The Great Dine Join Date: Feb 2009	I want to see what Ryukishi pulls out of his hat with this one. Erika was only able to be included because she was a shipwreck victim, who always washed ashore Rokkenjima. Battler and Beatrice's final red in EP 6 also means no one can just be hiding on the island from the mansion.

2010-08-05, 19:13	Link #15349
Leafsnail Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010	Some kakera where someone else goes to the island, I guess.

2010-08-05, 19:17	Link #15351
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	If it wasn't, the witch side would have lost automatically... so no, magic has never actually been prohibited. Wouldn't that be an amazing ending.

2010-08-05, 20:45	Link #15355
UsagiTenpura Artist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Yesterday!	Idea about Battler's sin. Shannon isn't her real self. All her feelings and dreams that cannot exist as part of Shannon are pushed over to Beatrice within herself. These includes her love for Battler as much as her dreams of being an endless witch. It also includes apparently a lot of envy and/or admiration for Jessica. Think of it like George said he wanted to be like Battler for a time. It also includes possibly a lot of hatred toward many of the family, tho probably not everyone. Battler in arc 5, when he found the truth, said he would never forget it again, which implies he used to know it. Beatrice, the "unfulfilled" parts of Shannon, would've died and she'd have given up on these things (fell to hell, abandon all hopes). However she is stuck in purgatory, because she cannot yet give up hope on these unfulfilled emotions, dreams, and thoughts. She was giving up, slowly, and trying to give up all these dreams in order to truly become "Shannon". George doesn't even know about the real her, he only knows and loves her Shannon persona. Shannon gradually accepts herself as Shannon more and more due to George loving her Shannon self ("I also become what I am thanks to you"). Arc 5 sorta made it seem as if Battler's sin was something that could look so insignificant from his side it'd be hard to really realize it was a sin. So I've been thinking for a while now, Battler's sin was something along the lines of simply being himself. With his charisma and way of speaking, it's very possible he could've gotten Shannon to be less shy and open up to him about her real self. He then started to hit on the "real" Shannon, giving her hope that she could be loved and accepted for who she is. Now because Battler comes back, all the things sealed within her as "Beatrice" wakes up. These comes back because of her love for Battler and hope to be loved for herself, but it comes back also with all the rest of she kept inside her. That of course includes her dreams of becoming an endless witch, and possibly a lot of negative and desperate feelings at once. At that point all these taking her over makes her irrational, and she believes that "everything Shannon is" isn't her "real" self (while a mix of the two, or three in Shkanontrice's case, would be her real self). That Battler doesn't seem to remember the past between them (he mentions in arc 3 he forgot most stuff he told Shannon, so likely the opposite is also true) makes her even more desperate and go over the line. There's a lot more to probably elaborate about it, but this would be the general idea.

2010-08-05, 20:52	Link #15357
UsagiTenpura Artist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Yesterday!	When Rosa slaps Maria, is that revenge? No! Hatred =/= revenge.

2010-08-05, 20:52	Link #15358
Leafsnail Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010	I was thinking her motive was to run a test to see which of the potential lovers could solve the epitaph first (after pressure is applied with the ceremony). Seems... farfetched though.

2010-08-05, 20:56	Link #15360
Disz Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Floor eh duh?	Beatrice=Shannons subconscious thoughts turned into a real life persona? If that's what you're implying,that's exactly what I'm thinking.