[Manga] Naruto Chapter 545 Discussion

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

You can't see many complaints about these plot holes that we discussed here, so Mr. John is happy with the plot

Unless he thinks the chapter alone sucks, which is a very real possibility.

Are they Uzumaki? No. Then there is no relevance what hair they have as long as it's not something like the rinnegan in case of eyes.

And my point was that red hair is not necessarily indicative of any inherited power. We could've said the same thing about Nagato before Kishi pulled him being an Uzumaki descendent out of his butt.

I guess this all comes back to what you said earlier.

Imagine a Naruto who has red hair and the genius of his father, add to that the kyuubi.

Thus, you seem to be making the claim that Uzumaki + red hair = special Jinchuuriki genetic trait. But I really have to ask, why does he have to have red hair? What does the color of your hair have to do with a genetic trait that enables you to better control a chakra monster that lives inside you?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Thus, you seem to be making the claim that Uzumaki + red hair = special Jinchuuriki genetic trait. But I really have to ask, why does he have to have red hair? What does the color of your hair have to do with a genetic trait that enables you to better control a chakra monster that lives inside you?

I think you're looking a little too deeply into the matter. Honestly, I expect Uzumaki = Red Hair (etc) is more a design attribute for the colour pages and the anime, rather than a specific genetic predisposition (it's always nice if a clan has some defining characteristics).

But, if you wish to attribute genetics as the reason and Uzumaki makes an ideal Jinchuuriki, then maybe the red hair could very well be a defining trait of the Rikudou (i.e. the Rikudou had red hair, and his more direct descendents will also have red hair (if you'll recall, one of the 2 direct descendents inherited the Sennin's "body", which could very well be the Uzumaki longevity (etc)); or simply a defining trait of the power of their chakra that allows them to live so long and become so powerful (which in turn explains why they are such good Jinchuuriki).

Whatever the case, the use of red hair to define the clan is fairly obvious...but, that doesn't mean all red heads are Uzumaki...that would be like saying Hashirama was a Hyuuga simply because he had long straight black hair...or Tobi is Obito/Danzou simply because they have a similar hair style...or Rin is an Inuzuka simply because she has markings on her cheeks...etc.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by james0246

I think you're looking a little too deeply into the matter.

I'm only questioning what Ero Sennin said, and he implied that red hair alone is indicative of an advantageous genetic trait. I don't even know if that's true within the series, I'm only arguing what he said.

Honestly, I expect Uzumaki = Red Hair (etc) is more a design attribute for the colour pages and the anime, rather than a specific genetic predisposition (it's always nice if a clan has some defining characteristics).

Yeah, like maybe having the similar social/political beliefs, duties to the village, and yeah, maybe a particular inherited ninjutsu for good measure. But no, all the clan members have to be inbred clones of each other.

But, if you wish to attribute genetics as the reason and Uzumaki makes an ideal Jinchuuriki,

Uh yeah. Wasn't that an established plot point?

then maybe the red hair could very well be a defining trait of the Rikudou (i.e. the Rikudou had red hair, and his more direct descendents will also have red hair (if you'll recall, one of the 2 direct descendents inherited the Sennin's "body", which could very well be the Uzumaki longevity (etc)); or simply a defining trait of the power of their chakra that allows them to live so long and become so powerful (which in turn explains why they are such good Jinchuuriki).

That's a pretty convoluted and nonsensical explanation. I mean, what exactly qualifies as having the "body" of the Rikudou? Does the person have to have the same eye color as the Rikudou? The same height, build, arm and leg length, etc. Naruto's an Uzumaki too, oh but I guess he doesn't get the longevity trait because he's got everything except the red hair. Them's the breaks. I just can't get over how ridiculous that is.

"Hey, I've got brown hair! That means I'm going to be great at sports because everyone in my family who has brown hair is great at sports!"

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Unless he thinks the chapter alone sucks, which is a very real possibility.

Most of the reactions were positive, people liked all the emotional stuff that happened between child and parents. Art appeals to the emotional side of humans and much less to the logical side. If you don't like that then this manga is not for you because you will keep discovering plot holes, while others just enjoy it without thinking about such things. People have to use their rational mind all day while studying and working, so they like to enjoy this manga where their emotional self can plaz down the rational self. That is the most likely reason why i enjoyed the story of Naruto's parents and just didn't care too much about plot holes.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

For example, I watched the TV series "Lost" ever since it first premiered in 2004 and, while was a fan of the show, I wasn't a huge fan.

I also watched the show and the ending was really annoying, it was an ugly trolling from the creators. Instead of solving the mysteries they created, they just threw away everything and ended the show without really answering any of the main questions. When someone has a show that goes for years and in every episode or manga chapter he introduces more and more new mysteries, then he is introducing more and more complexity, as if he was creating a system of hundreds of equations and hundreds of unknown variables. But if he makes it too complicated then he can't find any solutions, that is he can't find a combination of variable values that satisfies all the equations. Which simply means he can't give us a solution to all the mysteries that is free of plot holes. In Lost the authors simply didn't give any solution, i consider this much more annoying than giving us a solution where there are plot holes. So in this matter i think Naruto is way better than Lost, it at least gives us answers (for example who are Naruto's parents) instead of just finishing the whole show with nothing being answered. Sure Naruto has many plot holes, but for me it's much much better than the other approach.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Most of the reactions were positive, people liked all the emotional stuff that happened between child and parents. Art appeals to the emotional side of humans and much less to the logical side. If you don't like that then this manga is not for you because you will keep discovering plot holes, while others just enjoy it without thinking about such things. People have to use their rational mind all day while studying and working, so they like to enjoy this manga where their emotional self can plaz down the rational self. That is the most likely reason why i enjoyed the story of Naruto's parents and just didn't care too much about plot holes.

So you outright admit that Naruto has plotholes? That's it then, discussion over. If you have such bad taste that you don't even care that Naruto has several gaping plotholes (which are completely detrimental to a story, no matter what the case) then there's no point in continuing.

And as for the so-called "emotional side" of the story, i.e. Naruto's parents, that whole bit was some of the most phony, ham-fisted crap ever. "Hey son, we've been living in your head this whole time, and while I could have stayed alive, raised you, and been there for you your whole life, I thought it would be better to die so your mother would be able to see you for 10 minutes when you grow up." "OMG! Mommy! Daddy! I luvz you!"

And you're dead wrong that logic doesn't come into play when reading even simple fantasy work.

I also watched the show and the ending was really annoying, it was an ugly trolling from the creators. Instead of solving the mysteries they created, they just threw away everything and ended the show without really answering any of the main questions. When someone has a show that goes for years and in every episode or manga chapter he introduces more and more new mysteries, then he is introducing more and more complexity, as if he was creating a system of hundreds of equations and hundreds of unknown variables. But if he makes it too complicated then he can't find any solutions, that is he can't find a combination of variable values that satisfies all the equations. Which simply means he can't give us a solution to all the mysteries that is free of plot holes. In Lost the authors simply didn't give any solution, i consider this much more annoying than giving us a solution where there are plot holes. So in this matter i think Naruto is way better than Lost, it at least gives us answers (for example who are Naruto's parents) instead of just finishing the whole show with nothing being answered. Sure Naruto has many plot holes, but for me it's much much better than the other approach.

Ha ha, did you really think I wouldn't notice that you completely changed/avoided the subject? This has nothing to do with what we were talking about. In any case, you're dead wrong about Naruto being better than Lost.

[james0246]

^To be fair, Plotholes only really matter once a series is finished. Otherwise, everything can be explained before the end (whether these 'holes' are explained in a timely or competent manner is still debatable).

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

So you outright admit that Naruto has plotholes? That's it then, discussion over.

The original discussion had nothing to do with plot holes It is a given that it has plot holes, we didn't even have any discussion about that lol.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

If you have such bad taste that you don't even care that Naruto has several gaping plotholes (which are completely detrimental to a story, no matter what the case) then there's no point in continuing.

At least i'm not a masochist like you, reading a manga that you don't like
But since you read it every week, and even take your time to discuss it, it's obvious that you actually like this manga, but you act like hating it because you either are bored and want so discussions on the internet or you simply like trolling

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Ha ha, did you really think I wouldn't notice that you completely changed/avoided the subject? This has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

I have already answered that in previous posts, it's pointless to try again.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

In any case, you're dead wrong about Naruto being better than Lost.

One of your problems is that you don't read carefully, i didn't say that it's generally worse, i said it's worse in that specific matter. But anyway, talking in general, i find this manga more interesting than that series. And of course, even if you deny it, you think that Naruto is more interesting than Lost, because you are here discussing it every week, while as you said, you simply watched Lost when it aired, but didn't take your time to discuss it on forums and to remember every little detail that happened in a chapter/episode 10 years ago.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

The original discussion had nothing to do with plot holes It is a given that it has plot holes, we didn't even have any discussion about that lol.

You said it doesn't matter if the series has plotholes, because casual readers won't care as long as there's emotion in it. This is a completely ridiculous way of thinking (but at the same time, I guess it's true, sadly).

At least i'm not a masochist like you, reading a manga that you don't like
But since you read it every week, and even take your time to discuss it, it's obvious that you actually like this manga, but you act like hating it because you either are bored and want so discussions on the internet or you simply like trolling

In your words:

I have already answered that in previous posts, it's pointless to try again.

One of your problems is that you don't read carefully, i didn't say that it's generally worse, i said it's worse in that specific matter.

Even in that respect, Lost is better. Lost did make some flubs in its explanations, but, if you were paying attention, it did explain most of its mysteries satisfactorily. While Naruto may explain things, its explanations are complete retconning, ham-fisted, nonsensical crap. Going back to your example, the revelation of Naruto's parents was crap and completely unnecessary. Again, total retconning of the underdog theme. Let's not even get into Madara's explanation for the Uchiha massacre, which is the biggest piece of crap ever.

But anyway, talking in general, i find this manga more interesting than that series.

And you really should've just kept quiet about that.

And of course, even if you deny it, you think that Naruto is more interesting than Lost, because you are here discussing it every week, while as you said, you simply watched Lost when it aired, but didn't take your time to discuss it on forums and to remember every little detail that happened in a chapter/episode 10 years ago.

Actually, I did occassionally discuss Lost on certain forums. Also, I can't remember every single detail about Naruto either. Lastly, it's much more fun to comment on and criticize something that's bad. It's also fun to try to point out the fallacies in the praise that many people give Naruto.

[GusGus]

Another insane power up with a few days of training, Kishimoto didn't learn a thing from the pain's arc. Naruto is really getting annoying.

[Frenchie]

Lost? Really? I checked out the beginning and you would have to pin me down, peg my eyelids open and twist my head into an extremely uncomfortable position to even make me watch it. If Naruto is a waste of time, at least it only makes me waste 5 minutes of my life per week, not 30.

Yeah great choice of a series out of all of them out there.

[james0246]

Chapter 546 discussion has been opened. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Lost did make some flubs in its explanations, but, if you were paying attention, it did explain most of its mysteries satisfactorily.

That's called bullshitting and not explaining
But nevermind, i will not come to your Lost forums to bash the series

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Lastly, it's much more fun to comment on and criticize something that's bad. It's also fun to try to point out the fallacies in the praise that many people give Naruto.

At last you admit that you like mocking naruto fans on the internet
These poor fans keep arguing with you but that way you can harass them even more